Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) caTCHER ecm (Marco's aka MAD)

[Marco]

I don't care if you offer double my $$ back. I'm not giving up my CaTCHER

Here we have it again! Those dam ***** satisfied customers! What the heck! :-laf

That might not be the best thing for the Torque Converter in an auto???

Well, Mr. wimpy injector ( :-laf ) is on the righ trace about my driving habbits.



I've french fried a stock transmission in a little less than 3000 Kilometers.

With the full deal meal after market transmission it's a whole different story now.

That thing is now holding the abuse without problems.



OK, new definition.

CaTCHER = Clutch & Torque Converter Challenger Oo.



Marco

 

[darkhorse]

What's in a curve?

I've been looking at the dyno graphs posted above(thank you Bob & Gary) Lets ignore the numbers for a minute & look at the shape. On Bob's sheet, both the CaTCHER & the stock ECM have convex curves at the left end of the graph. The CaTCHER is just a lot steeper. Now on Gary's sheet, the Comp has a concave shape in the same place. Presumably the EZ would be similar. I think, there in lies why many of us like the CaTCHER so much. Am I onto something here or is my head full of mashed potatoes?

 

[Bob Wagner]

gary's graph starts at 35 MPH and mine started at 65MPH If you want to see a steep climb, then we need to start the CaTCHER at 35MPH



That's were the magic is



gravy? :-laf

 

[SHobbs]

Ok, where do we stand on getting a catcher. I saw them on Source Automotive's website. Can we now get one with out having a spare and being without our trucks for a while. If I am behind on this just slap me, been working too much to keep up.

 

[Bob Wagner]

Ok, where do we stand on getting a catcher. I saw them on Source Automotive's website. Can we now get one with out having a spare and being without our trucks for a while. If I am behind on this just slap me, been working too much to keep up.

Yes, you can buy a core outright or do a core exchange. I have plenty of cores at this time.



just bought 10 brand new one today

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"The CaTCHER is just a lot steeper. "



The steepness of the graph, as well as the upper falloff can be greatly manipulated by the one operating the accellerator pedal during the run - in my case, the power in 5th gear is evident by absence of shift points during the run, so essentially the engine was "lugging" at the bottom of the scale, where the accelleration was more gradually applied until RPM increased to a more reasonable level - let's face it, FEW of us would be applying full pedal in 5th gear at 30-35 mph on the street! And then, power was quickly backed off once maximum numbers were obtained - It's just the way the run was managed. Other dyno runs and graphs made by Ken Imler in Sacramento looked much like Bob's further up above - so my dyno graph above was purely for purpose of displaying MAXIMUM developed power and torque, not necessarily what the truck was capable of in lower RPM ranges.



(Sorry for late edit - my DSL has been extremely flaky yesterday and today)



Here's a more conventional dyno graph from when my truck had only 6000 miles on it, and shortly after I had installed the Comp - this was with the Comp on 5x5, again, just a roll-on of throttle in 5th gear:



#ad




Notice that the slope is much steeper on both ends of the rpm range - and that if the graph had started later in the RPM range, the leading edge of the graph would have been lots steeper, purely due to where the graph starts off RPM-wise...



Not convinced?



Look at bob's registered HP and torque at 1800 or 1850 RPM - hardly enough to pull the hat off yer head, wheras mine at that RPM was already at 300 HP and about 800 ft lbs torque. We *know* that is NOT an accurate reading of Bob's REAL power output - just an anomoly related to how that graph is displayed!

 

[SHobbs]

Bob

Thanks as soon as Uncle Sam releases my money for my tax refund I'll be getting a catcher. One other question. What will it do with an Ez installed?

 

[Bob Wagner]

stacking both an edge ez or dd true torque power module netted at best a 3 HP gain.



you would be better off selling the EZ to recapture some of the cost.



Adding injectors or a wire tap fueling box will increase HP and Torque.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Gary , kinda off subject, but why I was asking about your numbers, my H. O. put down 235 hp @ 490 tq , stock. With just the EZ installed, it put 274 hp and 690 tq. Gained almost 200 ft. lb of tq... .



If Edge EZ only got me 39 horsepower and they advertise the EZ @ 65hp. I netted 39hp... ... If the comp was rated at 120hp, I was curious as to how much of that actually gets to the ground.



If the Catcher puts down 60+ HP to the ground, that actually isn't far off from the comp #'s. Although the drawback is not having the adjustability in the cab.



Obviously that means alot to some people, I wouldn't know as I have not ever had a comp.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"If the Catcher puts down 60+ HP to the ground, that actually isn't far off from the comp #'s. :



KEEP in mind MY truck is stock, other than the Comp, while Bob's has other power mods besides the CATCHER - it does make SOME difference, I'm pretty sure...



And the difference between 60 or so HP gain and 105 is pretty significant - like about 40% more...

 

[RCone]

Bob's setup works. Gary's setup works. Bob's VP44 wire is not tapped, Gary's is.



So my question is Bob's VP44 gonna last longer than Gary's? I dunno. Does anyone really know what percentage of duty cycles a tapped pump might lose over a non-tapped pump? Is it gonna shorten it's life by 50% and if so, how many miles might one then expect out of a non-tapped 44?



Roger

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"So my question is Bob's VP44 gonna last longer than Gary's? I dunno. Does anyone really know what percentage of duty cycles a tapped pump might lose over a non-tapped pump? Is it gonna shorten it's life by 50% and if so, how many miles might one then expect out of a non-tapped 44?"



I seriously doubt ANYONE can answer that Roger - as pointed out further back, the VP-44 is a FIXED-DISPLACEMENT pump - that is, it pumps the SAME volume of fuel per engine revolution regardless of the volume actually consumed by the engine - the unused fuel is simply returned to the fuel tank.



Some theorize that the VP-44 fuel distribution solenoids/valves will see an increase in duty cycle with a Comp and pierced wire, but never seen any documentation as to what, if any effect that might have - failed fuel solenoids don't seem to be a primary failure point on a VP-44 as near as I can tell.



Some unmodded VP-44's fail at low mileage, some compromised pumps go for 100,000 plus miles - really hard to tell with any accuracy what piercing that wire will do to pump life. The GREATEST enemy of a VP-44 seems to be poor quality fuel, or a failed LP that compromises fuel flow and VP-44 cooling and lubrication - but that has little to do with a pierced pump wire...



But certainly for the weak-hearted, a power solution that does NOT involve piercing the pump wire is a plus - next question is, can Comp-equivelant power be obtained WITHOUT piercing that wire?

 

[Marco]

Although the drawback is not having the adjustability in the cab.

( with the CaTCHER )



That's true, but only up to an certain point.

What is the peddle on the right side of the brake peddle for?



Marco

 

[SnoKing]

( with the CaTCHER )



That's true, but only up to an certain point.

What is the peddle on the right side of the brake peddle for?



Marco

As one that snowmobiles in the winter, I can say that you do not want a Cummins power vehicle breaking traction very often in ice and snow. The engine does not slow back down very fast when you let up on the throttle. I had this situation in my 93 at low speed and with the 2001. 5 at 50-55 mph on a icey stretch of I90 in Eastern Washington. Power that comes on in a surge is not what you want under these conditions. I am running a Comp in EZ mode so I can turn it off when in snow and ice.



SNOKING

 

[Marco]

Power that comes on in a surg is not what you want under these conditions.

CaTCHER = no surge.

CaTCHER = stronger & sooner but no, no surge.



Marco

 

[darkhorse]

CaTCHER = no surge.

CaTCHER = stronger & sooner but no, no surge.



My CaTCHER with Mach 1. 5's delivers the power very smoothly. No problem. No surge at all. Now that I have added a Blue Chip APB, I can definitely experience a surge. Just turn it all the way up & press on the go pedal a little hard. When the boost starts to rise I'd call it a surge! That's not something to do on an icy road. :-laf

 

[TORQUE THIS]

Doing 50-55 on a icy road isn't very good also!



I have stated before that I have a 2wd 3500 with the catcher and 180 hp injectors. Haven't had a problem yet this winter, learning how to use the go pedal is half the fun!!!!

 

[Marco]

As you know, I've warned you several times about the CaTCHER's behaviour.

I was (and am ) concerned about your safety. Fun is great, but safety first!



I've told you that the torque comes in sooner and harder than with a stock ECM. Anyway, that behaviour has NOTHING to do with a surge in the power band. If anything the opposite is true! The power the CaTCHER deliveres is smooth and that is what can get one into trouble. Too much confidence in the trucks ability to get the power down to the road, voilà here you go sideways. Or worse... Been there done that several times, I've always been lucky!



Marco

 

[SnoKing]

A long honored winter driving technique is to drive in a higher gear than you would normal use, this limits the torque available to the rear wheels, lugging the engine is another term for it. Get below the power curve, that will get you home safely.



My 67 Camaro 295HP SS 350 was useless in snow, got stuck on flat ground when it snowed. Narrow tires and a old Chevy 6 cylinder 3 speed stick, now that was a rig that would go in the snow. SNOKING

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"That's true, but only up to an certain point.

What is the peddle on the right side of the brake peddle for?"





Ah - you mean that SAME "peddle" *I* still have in MY truck, along WITH full Comp adjustability?



Gotta at least TRY to keep this apples/apples...



NO, not a "knock", just pointing out the obvious - us Comp users don't lose the use of OUR accellerators either, we simply GAIN use of a box with a "volume control" that allows us to fine-tune available power to fit changing conditions...