2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Cats?

[Archive]

Okay, I'm confused... I was reading a thread discussing exhausts, etc. People were discussing catalytic converters. One person said that the trucks don't have one. Having only glanced at the exhaust, it seems to me that I saw one... Or at least something that looks like one. So what's the story? My truck is a CA truck. 2500 ETH/DEE

 

[Todd G]

24 valves have not cat. They have a resonator.

 

[EMDDIESEL]

It looks like a cat, but it is just a resonator to help quiet the exhaust.

 

[Mick2500]

Hmmmm,
My 2001. 5 had an Oxidation catalyst just in
front of the muffler. It is described on the
Dodge site under 2001 changes.
Mick

 

[Archive]

I wasn't very clear. My truck is a 2001. 5 model. Are there any legality issues with removing said Oxidation catalyst? I understand that the california cat. converter goons will shell your house if you remove a cat... But what about the catalyst? #ad

 

[EMDDIESEL]

If i am not mistaken, Catalyst is another word for a catalytic converter (or at least they serve the same function). I know nothing about the California Emission package (other then it it s**ks). I just know when i yanked the exhaust on my 2001 all my exhaust had was a muffler and a resonator.

 

[JConley]

Gutting the cat makes a big differnce in the performance of the truck. I dont know about the 24V exhaust, but on the 12V the catalyst is a big honeycomb piece about 10 inches long. The openings in the catalyst are about the same size as holes in a window screen (or smaller). I could barely see daylight through a 3 inch long piece when held up to the sun. It was this restricted in only 76K miles. I put a 4" Jarding muffler after the cat, and a Walker tailpipe behind the muff. The performance is great, and I have heard that the trucks will pass emissions testing without the catalyst.

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98 QC 2500 2WD 12 Valve Automatic, 3. 54 Mag-Hytec transmission pan. DTT Valve Body. Wrap around black Grill Guard (BIG solid steel one. AFC controller adjusted, Mopar mud flaps, Camper package, 2001 Tow mirrors, Cat ran away, No Muff
My Mustang
My Ram
The Wrecking Crew web site for Junkyard Wars
Go Aggies!!!

 

[Ethdee]

I went round in circles on the Dodge web site and couldn't find any references. Can you provide a pointer?

Do the one-tons have cats as well?

Jim

 

[Mick2500]

Jim,
They have changed the Dodge web site totally since I found that data there.
I will look at my Official sales brochure
when I get home. This data was part of the "New for 2001" information we were all looking for when the 4-wheel disc trucks were first put in production (June/July 2000).
I know when I found that my 2001. 5 2500 was going to have the Oxidation Catalyst as standard equipment, I went and found out all I could about this device. It is NOT a Catalytic Convertor. It is there for cleaner exhaust but it does not have the honeycomb structure that a Convertor has.

Mick

[This message has been edited by Mick2500 (edited 04-25-2001). ]

 

[Ethdee]

Thanks for the response. I have this irrational un-PC dislike for catalytic converters. I'd do almost anything to stay away from them. To make it worse, I live in the People's Republic of Kalifornia.

I am going to buy a truck in the next couple of weeks. I am actually considering a Ford. I'm looking at the F-350 SRW Crew Cab versus the Dodge 2500 (both 4x4). I drive two elderly folk around once a week, when the wife and I aren't pulling our travel trailer around. The cab height of a 4x4 isn't a problem, as both get into my present Ford F150 4x4.

Why 4x4 for a tow vehicle? I've already been in places with the trailer that I had to enlist a 4x4's help to remove the trailer. Note that my solution is not to never go to those places again.

I just have to decide whether it's worth it to me to get the Cummins and lose the Crew Cab and 9900 GVWR. I plan to get a fifth-wheel trailer sometime in the next few years.

I know the Ford has a catalytic device on it as well. I guess I'll look into that. Not that the smog device is going to make my decision for me, it's just one more thing to consider.

All comments are appreciated,

Jim

 

[24V-DSL]

#ad


This is crazy... .

I have 2001. 5 auto (if it matters), built 1-01. It is not a California emissions truck.

I had the muffler removed, and my muffler guy and I think what's left is the Resinator/resonator... take your spelling pick. It looks like a mini-muffler just ahead (toward engine) of where the muffler was. For reasons we don't understand, it has a short piece of 4" pipe that led to the muffler.

Why do I care about this??? I like the sound after removing the muffler, but if what's left is a cat/oxidation catalyst or anything even close to that, and not just a mini-muffler, it's coming OFF!

So... . Todd G and EMDDIESEL, you say resinator. Mick 2500, you say Oxidation Catalyst. Which is it?

Thanks.....


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White 2001. 5 2500 ST, SWB, 4X4,QC, AUTO, 4. 10's, LSD, 285/75/16 On Weld Outbacks, PIAA 510's, Line-x, Tinted glass, Redline 85+, Blow-by-bye, RE-0880 & 25-0880,muffler fell off,level truck with 2" tuff country kit, Bilsteins at the corners, Di Pricol egt and boost, Mag-hytec "original flavor" transmission pan and Dana 70 diff. cover, Westin Step Bars, Custom Plate 24V-DSL

 

[big barney]

The round thing in front of the muffler is a resonator. All the Dodge trucks with the 24 valve motor has one. Only the 12 valves have the Cat. Or should I say only the stock 12 valves have the cat.

 

[Mick2500]

24V-DSL,
It is an oxidation catalyst. Take a close look at it. It is made of stainless and not aluminized mild steel. I'll find the info somewhere one of these and post it.

Big Barney,
If it were a resonator it would be AFTER the muffler. Our trucks have a turbo in line and have no need for a resonator. As soon as I find the info, I'll post it here. I went through my 2001 literature AND my window sticker tonight and could find nothing but I'm absolutely positive what I read on the Dodge site.
Mick

 

[Mick2500]

Found it!!!!

Here is the Web site 'cause this didn't align too well. . #ad

http://us.media.daimlerchrysler.com/special/2001carryover/ram_photos_e.htm

ENGINE: 5. 9-LITER MAGNUM®, OHV, 24-VALVE, DIRECT INJECTION I-6 TURBO DIESEL

Type and Description
Six-cylinder, inline, liquid-cooled,
turbocharged, intercooled
Displacement
359 cu. in. (5883 cu cm)
Bore x Stroke
4. 02 x 4. 72 (102. 1 x 119. 9)
Valve System
OHV, 24 valves, roller followers,
hydraulic lifters
Fuel Injection
High-pressure direct injection,
mechanical
Construction
Cast iron block and head
Compression Ratio
17. 5:1
Power (SAE net)
235 bhp (175 kW) @ 2700 rpm -
std. (39. 8 bhp/liter); 245 bhp (183
kW) @ 2700 rpm - opt. (41. 5
bhp/liter)
Torque (SAE net)
460 lb. -ft. (624 Nom) @ 1,400 rpm -
std. ; 505 lb. -ft. (685 Nom) @ 1,600
rpm - opt.
Max. Engine Speed
3000 rpm
Fuel Requirement
Diesel
Oil Capacity
10 qt. (9. 5L) with filter
Coolant Capacity
24 qt. (22. 7L)
Emission Controls Engine modifications, oxidation catalyst


Alternator
136 A
Battery
Maintenance-free, dual 750 CCA

 

[jolyman]

Here in Colorado we have to have an emission check every two years and they do a physical visual check along with the dino check for polutants.
I was looking at a '99 with a 24 valve which had NO CAT. Checked with Dodge and the emissions inspector to find if I needed one and was told that 24 valve cummings have no cat.
Just my $. 02 worth.

 

[24V-DSL]

Mick2500... .

Ok, thanks for the extra work. You now go to the head of the credibility list.

So, for months I've been reading about resinators/resonators in our 2001 exhaust systems. Now it looks like it's an "oxidation catalyst" and not a resinator. Your point about the location in the system is a good one, i. e. , these things are always located post muffler on the vehicles I've seen them on.

What the heck is an oxidation catalyst and how is it different than a catalytic converter?

Are these in any way restrictive and limiting a free flow of exhaust?

All you folks who have jerked off your stock systems and put on 4"..... has anyone ever looked at the configuration/design of this thing?

I'm kinda bummed about this. I don't want a "plug" in my system, but on the other hand I prefer the sound with it left in as opposed to straight pipe (friend has that and I can compare)

Thanks... .

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White 2001. 5 2500 ST, SWB, 4X4,QC, AUTO, 4. 10's, LSD, 285/75/16 On Weld Outbacks, PIAA 510's, Line-x, Tinted glass, Redline 85+, Blow-by-bye, RE-0880 & 25-0880,muffler fell off,level truck with 2" tuff country kit, Bilsteins at the corners, Di Pricol egt and boost, Mag-hytec "original flavor" transmission pan and Dana 70 diff. cover, Westin Step Bars, Custom Plate 24V-DSL

[This message has been edited by 24V-DSL (edited 04-26-2001). ]

 

[Mick2500]

Jolyman,
Here in AZ we don't have to have new vehicles tested for at least 5 years so I
haven't gone through any testing with my aftermarket exhaust. You are correct about our 24V CUMMINS, we do NOT have CATs! The Oxidation Catalyst is a passive device that just helps to clean the exhaust NOT Convert it. I'll look for the information I found last year when I realized it was included on my 2001. 5

24V-DSL,
See above #ad
My stock exhaust is in the attic over the garage. I'm not positive but I 'think' my Oxidation Catalyst was a straight-thru design. I'll keep digging for info.

Mick

 

[Mick2500]

Here is the best description I have found so far..... http://www.dieselnet.com/tginfo/abstracts.html
Catalytic Converters

Ceramic catalyst cores are wrapped in mounting mats and packaged into steel housings. Specially developed
materials and technologies allow the design and construction of extremely durable catalytic converters. The most
commonly used mounting mats, called intumescent mats, contain vermiculite which expands under high
temperatures to provide high mounting pressures. Among the three known converter canning technologies,
which include clamshell, tourniquet and stuffing, the tourniquet technology provides the most robust converter
design. In each of the technologies, the converter shell geometry has to provide the required mounting density for
the mat. The design of converter inlet and outlet headers or cones affects the gas flow distribution and pressure
drop. In applications with space limitations, catalysts can be placed inside catalytic mufflers.

Diesel Catalysts

The first diesel catalysts, introduced in 1970's for underground mining applications, were simple oxidation
catalysts designed for conversion of CO and HC. These catalysts gradually evolved into the modern diesel
oxidation catalysts, optimized for PM emission reduction. Future requirements for NOx emission reduction from
diesel engines call for new catalyst technologies, such as SCR, lean NOx catalyst, and NOx adsorber systems.

Diesel Oxidation Catalyst

Diesel oxidation catalysts promote chemical oxidation of CO and HC as well as the SOF portion of diesel
particulates. They also oxidize sulfur dioxide which is present in diesel exhaust from the combustion of
sulfur containing fuels. The oxidation of SO2 leads to the generation of sulfate particulates and may
significantly increase total particulate emissions despite the decrease of the SOF fraction. Modern diesel
oxidation catalysts are designed to be selective, i. e. , to obtain a compromise between sufficiently high HC
and SOF activity and acceptably low SO2 activity.

Selective Catalytic Reduction

Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) of NOx using ammonia or urea has been used for many years in
industrial processes, as well as in stationary diesel engine applications. In the SCR process, NOx reacts
with the ammonia, which is injected into the flue gas stream before the catalyst. Different SCR catalyst
systems based on platinum, vanadium oxide or zeolites have different operating temperature windows and
must be carefully selected for a particular SCR process. SCR catalysts have also been commercially used
in several marine applications. SCR catalysts have not been commercially used for diesel trucks, buses, or
cars due to their complexity, large size, safety concerns, and ammonia/urea injection control issues.
However, SCR is still the only catalyst technology capable of reducing diesel NOx emissions to levels
required by future emission standards. Numerous development programs attempt to adapt the SCR
technology for mobile diesel engines.

Mick

[This message has been edited by Mick2500 (edited 04-26-2001). ]

 

[24V-DSL]

Mick2500... .

Thanks for all of this. I would be very interested in what you find when you look at your "old" system, i. e. , is this a straight-through design that doesn't look restrictive?

------------------
White 2001. 5 2500 ST, SWB, 4X4,QC, AUTO, 4. 10's, LSD, 285/75/16 On Weld Outbacks, PIAA 510's, Line-x, Tinted glass, Redline 85+, Blow-by-bye, RE-0880 & 25-0880,muffler fell off,level truck with 2" tuff country kit, Bilsteins at the corners, Di Pricol egt and boost, Mag-hytec "original flavor" transmission pan and Dana 70 diff. cover, Westin Step Bars, Custom Plate 24V-DSL

 

[Archive]

In summary... It sounds as if the general consensus is that it is, in fact, a converter of sorts. It is there for emissions purposes... And we will all continue to remove them since they don't yet test non-commercial diesels. #ad