Changing oil without filling filter??

[C. Harlan]

The mechanic at work I work with keeps telling me he is convinced that putting a filter on a turbodiesel truck with no oil is not a problem. It frustrates me so much when he does this, because he tells me that since it is not our vehicles, that it should not matter. I ask him if he does it on his race car (10. 5 sec. Mustang), and he tells me he11 no! So I ask him why he does it at work, and he just tells me not to worry about it. It frustrates me and almost angers me to where I get all rattled to see him doing this to 7. 3L PSD's, ISB's, ISC's, 6bt's, and Cat's of all different sizes. Most of the time I will take the filter back off, and put oil. It is just frustrating trying to tell him that it is detrimental to the life of the turbo and the engine, since it takes more time to establish oil pressure. The only ones I do not bother with are the GM 6. 5's... they do not have an oil line from the filter to the turbo... all the other motors we have do, and that is why I stress it that we must put oil into the filter before installing it...



What do y'all think? Am I in the wrong, or am I doing right???



-Chris-

 

[Joe G.]

When I change oil I fill the filter. Then I disable the fuel solenoid and crank it until I have some oil pressure before starting it. There is a lot of oil in the filter so I want to make sure it is circulating before start. I think you are doing right.

 

[MKoth]

Shop policy while working for Cat, and an independant truck repair shop, was not to pre-fill. Reason was that the little wear incured during startup on an empty filter is much better then prefilling and risking a piece of junk to get inside the filter and plug a cooling nozzel or oil passage.

 

[klenger]

I don't prefill mine. The time it takes for oil pressure to come is so short that I cannot imagine any damage being done. Keep in mind that all the lubricated component surfaces are saturated with oil.

 

[PC12Driver]

I used to pre fill, but now I have the same opinion as MKoth. I don't want to risk the contaminants.

 

[JLEONARD]

Chris, I agree with you. I prefill both my truck and boat engines. But I respect the CAT shop policy if they say not to... they made that policy for a reason I'm sure.

My guess is that in the real scheme of things it probably doesn't really make much of a difference anyway.



Jay

 

[dodge cummins]

you wont risk contaminents if you fill the oil filter through the holes on the filter. i always prefill my oil filter with 1 quart of oil before i put her on. i used to have a powerchoke before and i always prefilled that also. i am surprised with the new 6. 0 powerchokes where the filter design will not allow you to prefill do to the filter being a paper element.

 

[fkovalski]

... is much better then prefilling and risking a piece of junk to get inside the filter ... .

Would you elaborate a bit more... What would get into the filter when prefilling? Would not the actuall install would be the same dry or filled- hence the same risk (of getting something in the filter) is there either way? I do not think that you are implying that there is junk in the oil which would get into the filter by prefilling. Or is it the passage route that potential crap (while installing) would travel (through the engine) prior to getting back to the filter?



-frank.

 

[2broke2smoke]

the foil or plastic that is removed from under the lid of the oil container ...



that said, i always prefill

 

[jwgary]

I remember reading something about a trashed ISB because a passage got clogged with a small piece of foil (from the oil container). I never thought about it before, but that could only be caused by pre-filling. The filter would have caught anything that large if it had gone into the oil pan.

 

[MDietrich]

What MKoth means is if something falls off the bottle or a piece of foil from the lip of the jug falls into the treaded hole on the filter. This is the return from the filter back into the engine. Anything in there is not filtered. I read about a piece of foil plugging piston cooling nozzles in the TDR magazine.

If your careful and do it like FANZDSLPWR describes there shouldn't be a problem.

Personally I don't prefill my filter. Why chance it? There is enough oil on the engine surfaces to keep to much damage from happing in the few split seconds it takes to build oil pressure. Besides, the turbo is still spinning after shut down with no oil pressure. Is this more damaging? Just a thought.



MD

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I always prefill mine - but I keep a VERY clean engine and underhood area - and clean work area. That, along with extra care in installing the prefilled new filter is the ONLY way I will do mine.



NOW, that said, *I* would probably have a far different viewpont if someone ELSE, in a dirtier and less careful atmosphere was doing it.



The oil pump flow rate, at least on the 24 valve engines, is so high that the filter canister actually fills very rapidly at startup, and prefilling is likely not as big an issue as other engines.

 

[Graphic man]

And dealers wonder why people don't bering the vehicles in for service!!!

my truck has never seen a dealer other then a track bar under warranty

 

[msperos]

I set a small wire mesh kitchen strainer (don't tell the wife ) in a funnel and pour it into the filter. That way anything big enough to cause harm is weeded out.

 

[Grizzly]

I have always and will continue to prefill and I do keep a clean environment. Having said that and no one has ever changed oil for me before, but when I purchased my 05 I got a free 7 year oil change, twice per year. When I had the dealer change my oil for the first time, I told him that I want the oil filter prefilled. He said they alway do. I watched him anyway. Before I left the dealer, with my truck outside, I checked the oil level. It was full and very black. How can new oil get that black that soon?

 

[GFritsch]

Never have prefilled. Never have had a problem. The filter fills very quickly once the engine starts. But like everything in life if it makes you feel better then it has value.



Greg

 

[MKoth]

Would you elaborate a bit more... What would get into the filter when prefilling? Would not the actuall install would be the same dry or filled- hence the same risk (of getting something in the filter) is there either way? I do not think that you are implying that there is junk in the oil which would get into the filter by prefilling. Or is it the passage route that potential crap (while installing) would travel (through the engine) prior to getting back to the filter?



-frank.

There is always a chance that a little peice of the foil under the cap, or a small part of plastic from the casting of the bottle could get into the filter.



Main reason though, is that we used bulk oil. Much easier chance for a contaminate to get into the oil, either in the bluk tank, or at the nozzel, or anywhere in between.



I always take the plastic off the filter, look inside to see if there are any visabel peices of debris, then apply a coast of clean oil to the gasket, and install the filter on the vehicle.

 

[David Oxland]

I believe that if you drained and didn't refill for a number of days the remaining oil to get the wedge established might be a bit slim but with a hot oil service and immediate refill and operation the oil is well warmed by the time it hits the suction(because of running in contact with the hot block) and so gets through the filter and up to the turbo pretty quickly.

 

[EMD Diesel Power]

I've always prefilled... . but I've also kept a clean work area and filled the filters on the outside holes.



I really dont think it would make much of a difference... . but I have always beleived that an empty filter contains air... . it has to go somewhere, and on most engines, the first gallery is the main bearings. high air pressure will blow the oil film right off the bearing surfaces until the oil gets back in..... Also one of the reasons I always cranked engines slow til the pressure was back up then fired it off. all this never took me more than 3-4 extra minutes if that anyway... . it is just part of my procedure.



If you dont beleive the above... think about how your oil pump is set up... . most are gear types... . it will pressurize the air and send it thru the galleries/bearings on its way back to the crankcase. Air just doesnt magically disappear... . it must go somewhere.



.

 

[todt061458]

Grizzly I think it's called SOOT you can filter it out if you want.