Chrysler is now 100% FIAT

[BIGNASTY]

Lets hope that FIAT is better than it was, knew of a man that had a FIAT and insisted it stood for, Fix, It, Again, Tony that car was in the shop all the time.

 

[rscurtis]

I had one of the last Iveco trucks sold in the US, a 1990 12-14 with the Fiat engine and Torqueflite transmission. It wasn't a "bad" truck, and rode much better than any of its Japanese counterparts of the era. The engine gave no trouble whatsoever. However, parts and service backup was non-existent, and some parts carried space-shuttle prices. It also had a troublesome air-over hydraulic brake system. Toward the end, around 2006, only one dealer in the country sold parts, and if they didn't have it in stock, you had to wait for the next container to come from the homeland.

Dfitzwater, was that a PU you had or a 450/550? I've seen some Utube videos of 6.7's apart for head replacement, they must really run hot. There's no soot in the engine at all, looks like it's running on natural gas.

 

[Bill Stockard]

Sergio Marchionne is supposedly a very product-oriented CEO. All the articles I've seen indicate that he OKed the new Viper that was developed behind his back (no authorization to do so) when the first clay model prototype was presented to him. Not to say that it couldn't happen, but I daresay he understands that the Cummins sells the Ram HD trucks. I strongly suspect that, if he doesn't, that message would be presented to him loud and clear from product focus groups before he made any significant changes. Look at the 2013/2014 trucks - they are a pretty good indication that he's listening to what the market is telling him is important.

Rusty

We have no idea what the bean counters and top level managers in Turin are doing. Could they be looking at the tens of millions of dollars they are paying to Cummins annually when Fiat, as one of the largest worldwide diesel engine manufacturers, could be keeping the manufacturing profits to themselves by using one of their diesel engines? What happened at CNH and the long time Consolidated Diesel Corporation (CDC) joint venture that produced the Cummins B and C series diesel engines originally?

Bill

 

[RustyJC]

Bill,

Who knows? You may be right - Fiat could well shoot themselves in the foot by pulling the Cummins from the Ram, but they are also looking at the overall profitability of the Ram lineup as well (I have to believe it is one of their more, if not most, profitable products). If they pulled the Cummins, they know that their volume would go down while profitability per unit might increase - so, what's the break-even point? None of us know.

My point in my earlier post is that I honestly believe Marchionne will look past just the numbers. I'm sure it's hard to build a strong business case for the Viper, but Marchionne knows that it's an essential botique product for the Dodge brand's image. Remember, Fiat owns Ferrari and Maserati, so I think Marchionne brings some Italian passion about the product to the CEO's office that goes beyond the beancounter's recommendations.

We'll see.....

Rusty

 

[Bill Stockard]

Bill,

Who knows? You may be right - Fiat could well shoot themselves in the foot by pulling the Cummins from the Ram, but they are also looking at the overall profitability of the Ram lineup as well (I have to believe it is one of their more, if not most, profitable products). If they pulled the Cummins, they know that their volume would go down while profitability per unit might increase - so, what's the break-even point? None of us know.

My point in my earlier post is that I honestly believe Marchionne will look past just the numbers. I'm sure it's hard to build a strong business case for the Viper, but Marchionne knows that it's an essential botique product for the Dodge brand's image. Remember, Fiat owns Ferrari and Maserati, so I think Marchionne brings some Italian passion about the product to the CEO's office that goes beyond the beancounter's recommendations.

We'll see.....

Rusty

Rusty,

I agree that the light trucks are the most profitable product lines of all three of the US based manufacturers. I also agree that Marchionne. a real "car guy" for a change, has brought many beneficial changes to the Chrysler, Dodge, and Ram products; however, he also has brought these and other automobile, truck, farm and construction equipment companies into the Fiat "family" at the expense of a huge debt that has been downgraded by the financial institutions several times. If Fiat's fortunes change, Marchionne will be out in a heartbeat, even though he had board approval, it will be his fault.

Yep, we'll see and it will be interesting to watch...

Bill

 

[RustyJC]

Yeah, Europe is mired in a financial downturn (not that the U.S. isn't having its own problems). The financial rags indicate that Chrysler is carrying Fiat right now, so at least that part of Marchionne's expansion/diversification plan is looking pretty smart. I hope he can hang in there. The last thing we need is new Fiat leadership that would turn this into another DaimlerChrysler fiasco.

We'll hope for the best.

Rusty

 

[Bill Stockard]

Yeah, Europe is mired in a financial downturn (not that the U.S. isn't having its own problems). The financial rags indicate that Chrysler is carrying Fiat right now, so at least that part of Marchionne's expansion/diversification plan is looking pretty smart. I hope he can hang in there. The last thing we need is new Fiat leadership that would turn this into another DaimlerChrysler fiasco.

We'll hope for the best.

Rusty

Rusty,

It's refreshing to see Chrysler-Dodge-Ram run by a real car guy instead of "money changers". I appreciate what Marchionne has done and only hope he can continue and not allow it to turn it into another, as you accurately put it, "DaimlerChrysler fiasco".

Bill

 

[mwilson]

I think that the term "Daimler Debacle" has a better ring to it....

But I do admit to using the term here on occasion so I may be biased....

Mike.

 

[DonFitzwater]

"Dfitzwater, was that a PU you had or a 450/550? I've seen some Utube videos of 6.7's apart for head replacement, they must really run hot. There's no soot in the engine at all, looks like it's running on natural gas.[/QUOTE]"

It was an F350 Lariat.

 

[Regcabguy]

Lets hope that FIAT is better than it was, knew of a man that had a FIAT and insisted it stood for, Fix, It, Again, Tony that car was in the shop all the time.

We had four Italian Iveco tiltcabs at work. POS smoke belching rigs that had the worst brakes imaginable. Our right legs looked like soccer players.

 

[BIGNASTY]

We had four Italian Iveco tiltcabs at work. POS smoke belching rigs that had the worst brakes imaginable. Our right legs looked like soccer players.

Only the right leg?

Ive had both on the stop peddle a time or two trying to pull the steering wheel off the column to get a truck stopped :-laf

Nobody said I was a quick study, Just a lucky one!

 

[mwilson]

Only the right leg?

Ive had both on the stop peddle a time or two trying to pull the steering wheel off the column to get a truck stopped :-laf

Nobody said I was a quick study, Just a lucky one!

No, no. Only when both feet are on the brake pedal (BTW, the old IH brake pedals were factory made for that) and the right hand is reaching for the Maxi-Brake button has the situation reached the point of critical mass......

Mike.

 

[BIGNASTY]

:-laf been there have ya? MIKE!!

My left hand was going for the door release to JUMP!!!

 

[Shadrach]

Most people I know who have a Dodge/Cummins have it because of the Cummins part only. I have helped many people with parts to swap "our engine" into their Ferd or Chebby. You never see a Powerjoke or Dumbmax swapped into a Dodge, or anything else for that matter I wonder if we could put one in a Fiat :-laf David

 

[RRB]

I can't believe Fiat would stop the very profitable Cummins relationship. It would be enormous risk with almost no upside. The Marketing guys would never let such a stupid move happen. As for the rest of Chrysler business, I don't think the Fiat take over will be a bad thing. As a manufacturing guy, I've always learned that you can't fix a problem with the same type of thinking that created the problem. Fiat obviously sees value in Chrysler or it wouldn't have bought them. I'm sure it didn't take long to walk thru the factories and review of the supply chain to find enormous waste that was probably created by dealing with the UAW idiots. Fiat still has the challenge of convincing the UAW workers what good manufacturing practices are all about. They've been brainwashed so long, most don't know any better.....then again, most of the UAW I've met have been nothing but sheep looking for an entitlement.

 

[Wayne M.]

I'll take the liberty to identify the possible threat.

 

[BIGNASTY]

.......................

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

We will have a talk about the new VM engine for the Ram 1500 at May Madness.

 

[Wayne M.]

We will have a talk about the new VM engine for the Ram 1500 at May Madness.

Does Fiat have any share of VM?

 

[Wayne M.]

Most of us know the true early application for our beloved B engine. It was intended for Case equipment, if I have the story right, and the Case engines were tagged as "Consolidated". For many years, The Cummins B and C series engines have been hummin' in Case machines. We should take a look at what has happened to Case (and New Holland) powerplants. Presently, This is the corporate description of Case et al.

Copied from- http://www.cnhindustrial.com/en-US/Pages/HomePage.aspx

"
CNH Industrial, a new Group created from the merger of Fiat Industrial and CNH Global, is a solid, major industrial enterprise; a global leader in capital goods, uniting CNH’s agricultural and construction equipment operations with Iveco trucks, commercial and specialty vehicles and FPT Industrial’s broad portfolio of powertrain applications. Across its 11 brands, 64 manufacturing plants, 49 research and development centers, a workforce of more than 68,000 people and some 6,000 dealers, CNH Industrial is present in 190 countries giving it a unique competitive position. The Group has the flexibility to pursue the most advantageous strategic options and capitalize on opportunities for growth and consolidation consistent with our ambitions for it to become a leader in the sector."

One machine Case still makes is the 621 wheel loader. I am familiar with the earlier versions of this machine, and they ALWAYS had 6B power. The latest version of the 621 has a powerplant known as "F4HFE613Z", which is a FPT (Fiat Power Train) engine.

It took a few years to kick the Cummins out of Case. But it happened.