Chrysler response to Dead Pedal

[SnoKing]

Yesterday I was going to the clinic in Anacortes to get my PT/INR blood test. Traffic on Commercial Strett is always heavy near the Hospital. I have to make a left turn at an intersection that does not have a light. I made the turn in a small opening in on coming traffic, while thinking I would not be doing this with a new truck.

Until enough people report this on Safercar.com I do not think RAM will address it. For years we have all driven vehicles that responded when the driver asked it to with their right foot! This is a major safety issue that needs to be addressed. The off-the-line performance issue is a different issue and that can be factored into driving style. Intermittent dead pedal is very different, and if it is always factored into driving style your will become the subject of horn honking!

63K miles ago I had my second case of 24V dead pedal and P0216 code and was on the phone to MWFI ordering a new injection pump.

File your complaints. www.safercar.com

Snoking

 

[moparnut72]

I tried the brake and accelerator at the same time. Sure enough, the engine throttled back. I also had an experience where the car in front of me did something stupid. I had to cut the throttle quickly and then I mashed it for more speed. This resulted in what seemed like a significant lag. Maybe half a second at most. I don't see this as a major issue. The old caveat applies here and that is drive smoothly and you will stay out of trouble. Remember these are heavy duty trucks and are not meant to be horsed around. Drive your truck like an 80,000lb semi and will do all that Mother Mopar intended it to do.
kk

 

[RustyJC]

I tried the brake and accelerator at the same time. Sure enough, the engine throttled back....

Most of the OEMs are dialing back to idle when the brake is applied since the Toyota "runaway" legal fiasco; some started after the "runaway" Audi 5000s back in the 1980s. Remember when people were claiming to be standing on the brakes and the cars kept accelerating? (Impossible, but lawyers don't understand that.) The response from the manufacturers has been to dial the engine back to idle upon ANY brake application - for any road course folks, that pretty well killed the use of trail braking techniques with some throttle still applied.

Rusty

 

[Deleted member 995608]

The old runaway vehicle crap is just that, crap. Why these people didn't put their vehicles in neutral or take it out of gear is beyond me.

 

[Bill]

Well I put my big boy pants on and decided everybody is entitled to their own opinion/s. So to those I have offended, I offer my apology.

Now, the so called solution to the dead pedal. First, I gave up the option of taking the new truck. No such thing as a "straight across exchange." Seems as if there is always just that extra dollar or hundreds that are applicable. All of you know I have fought with Chrysler over the dead pedal issue. With absolutely no help from them, I decided that I was not about to let them force me to let them get away with what they have been doing which has been absolutely nothing. I took it upon myself to contact a Four Wheel business's, locally who diagnoised my truck. Took thirty five minutes and I paid them $67.50. This is what the diesel mechanic said, who has been driving dodges all his life and use to drive over the road rigs. As far as me being accused of being a two footed driver, which I have always admitted, this mechanic said that in the past and up to today, there are hundreds of drivers who use the same method as I do.

Anyway, here is what he said will cure the problem. "Brake pedal or accelerator pedal needs the A.P.P. sensor replaced." I sent this information to my dealer/service dept. and have received no replies from them. This part, after doing some online checking can run me any where between $250.00 - $400.00. Probably more if I was to buy it from the dealer's parts department, which I won't even consider. Of course I will pay what ever I have to, to get this problem taken care of. Also I am not going to ask to be reimbursed for the $67.50.

The original code that was thrown was: "P2299," and here is what that code has to say:
TWO FOOTED DRIVING
ACCELERATOR PEDAL POSITION SENSOR
BRAKE SWITCH
POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM)

The mechanics only put down on the R.O. that customer was a two footed driver. What they failed to perform were the other three tests, saying that Chrysler would not authorize any work on my truck.
NEW INFO: Service manager just called me. He said that replacing this sensor was not going to solve the problem. So now I have one experienced mechanic that's not working for the dealer who says it will cure the problem. It's a catch 22 situation. I asked the ser. mgr. why, on my copies of the R.O.'s it fails to show the other three test he claimed his mechanics didn't performed. He then stated that the test were performed but results from those types of tests are not printed out for the customer. I asked for a copy and he said I would get one. And then the kicker is: "Ser mgr said he will contact Chrysler and tell them he is going to install a new pedal which he will request that under "customer satisfaction."

So that sums things up for now.

 

[JLandry]

I tried the brake and accelerator at the same time. Sure enough, the engine throttled back.

Strange...

I tried this today on my 2014 3500 dually at various speeds and gears all the way up to 60 mph and it had no effect at all (i.e.: no throttle decrease). I could even accelerate while pushing the brake pedal.

I didn't do anything aggressive while testing.

John L.

 

[seafish]

Bill, thanks for updating...FYI--don't think that you really offended anyone.

Hope that your new mechanic is right...Are you going to bite the bullet and replace the APPS??

 

[sag2]

You have to be on the throttle first, then press the brake. It is for runaway assumed to be caused by a stuck accelerator pedal. So if the controller sees the throttle is on and then the brake is depressed and the throttle is not released it will cut the throttle for you and set the P2299. The faster you are going and the harder you press on the brake the faster it shuts down. To get the throttle back just let off the throttle and step back down and you should be going again. I tried a 1500 diesel yesterday and it did it almost every time. Didn't have access to a 6.7 Cummins. All newer Chrysler gas vehicles work the same way.

Strange...

I tried this today on my 2014 3500 dually at various speeds and gears all the way up to 60 mph and it had no effect at all (i.e.: no throttle decrease). I could even accelerate while pushing the brake pedal.

I didn't do anything aggressive while testing.

John L.

 

[JLandry]

You have to be on the throttle first, then press the brake.

That's exactly what I did: While driving normally with my right foot on the accelerator pedal, I used my left foot to press on the brake pedal (which felt weird because I'm NOT a double foot driver).

Maybe I wasn't pressing the brake pedal hard enough, but I did apply enough braking force to cause the truck to slow down slightly.

I'll play around with it more tomorrow and report back.

John L.

 

[MattandLana]

I'll play around with it more tomorrow and report back.

Can you test what happens if you do it while reversing up a kerb, too?

 

[Bill]

Just a FYI; With this dead pedal issue, you can not get it do go into that mode "every time." Basically this is Chrysler's "safety fix" if the engine does run away with you. Another thing with my truck. It makes no difference what speed I am going and how hard I push on the brake, the engine doesn't stall any quicker. What I have been attempting to say on here is this; "IF? this is suppose to work like you have outlined, then why doesn't it work all the time? Nobody can say that the trucks actually have to have the engine running away on them because you can normally duplicate this at any given speed ~ "when it want's to work."

Additionally, when this happens, why does the ECM light come on abut 90% of the time. Or why does the ECM light start "blinking." With the latter case, the manual implies that you should have the truck towed to the nearest dealer. My dealer got the ECM light to come on five (5) different times while test driving it. We switched drivers, I put the truck into d/pedal but the ECM light did not come on.

This is NOT a new problem with the Dodge trucks. As you said, you drove a 1500 and got it to do it. That is why I went through four (4) different 1500's in 2012. Again, the ser. mgr AND chrysler said there was no problem. The dealer bought back the first 1500. So after driving the remaining three I said the H*** with gas engines and bought a new 2012 Dodge. Not once did I experience any of these problems until I got into the 2500 and 3500 2014 diesels. My point is: Chrysler does indeed know about this problem and they have known about it for a long time. Yet they just keep building new trucks and stick with this so called safety feature. We wouldn't have to be going through these problems if the public could simply be educated to put their vehicles in "N" when this happens.

Another issue that so far I can not find an answer to. Driving on the freeways, two lane roads, city driving and any speed, NOT TOUCHING THE BRAKE, why does the engine go into this lagging or limp mode? Basically it is the same thing as the dead pedal but again, I do not have to touch the brake.

My ser. mgr informed me that Chrysler is not going to do anything about the dead pedal problem. I guess they have not received enough complaints to where the either don't consider it a problem or a safety problem. It may make them stand up and notice there is a problem if all of us on here file a formal complaint through Chrysler.

If this is due to a stuck accelerator pedal as you said, have you asked any of your contacts what they plan on doing about it, if anything? If not, then what is the fix? I'm sticking with needing to replace the A.P.P. sensor

 

[Bill]

John: As I just posted. This problem does not happen every time. You don't have to be doing any agressive driving in order for this to happen. However, when it happens you will quickly realize it.

 

[Bill]

Yea, that makes two of us concerning the mechanic being right. I was going to pay for the sensor and labor to install it. However as I was posting last night, I got a call from my ser. mgr who informed me that he was calling Chryser today and informing them that he was going to put the sensor in under "customer satisfaction." I don't understand why he couldn't have done that when I originally brought the truck in to him. More confusing, he did say that by installing the sensor, it would not solve the problem. So I have to wonder if he is thinking this is Chrysler's safety feature for a run away engine, then unless I am missing something, there would be no fix for it.

 

[Bill]

Will try to make this as short as possible.

At stop sign or red light turns green. Press the pedal, truck starts to move, engine lags. 2 - 5 seconds. Take foot off of pedal, re-apply pedal, power is back.
Sag2 is wrong. Safety procedure for a run away engine ~ foot off of pedal, apply brakes. Just confirmed this with Chrysler ten minutes ago. Problem goes back to at least 2012 when I bought 4 1500 Dodge trucks ~ "all" did this! I am very familure with D/P issue.

Driving any speed, any road, towing or empty ~ Engine goes into limp mode without touching brake.

Dead pedal or limp mode - ECM light may or may not come on. May be steady light or blinking.

Loss of mileage - unresolved.
Loss of power - unresolved

Having brake and accelerator pedal A.P.P. sensor replaced for dead pedal problem.

 

[NDanecker]

I did not have this issue in my '13 (68rfe and 3.42) but very noticeable in my '14 (AISIN and 4.10). TM is also very evident on the '14 which wasn't as big an issue with the '13.

This is clearly an issue. I hope RAM see's these threads and does something about it. Although I don't feel it dangerous I can see where other people feel that way (if they expect the truck to launch when jumping out in traffic and it doesn't). I drive my truck very conservative so its not as dangerous, but very annoying when it happens.

 

[Bill]

If you don't mind a suggestion ~ "Please" let RAM know about this issue. I personally see it as a safety issue. I'm tired of getting the "one finger salute."

 

[Bill]

Seafish: Quick update. Got a call from Chrysler's famous ECS department. We yelled back and forth. He is going to be sending me a new pedal. Think there is more to just getting a new pedal. However he said once he locates one it will be overnighted to the dealership. Apparently the A.P.P. sensor was not the answer I was told would solve the problem.

 

[JLandry]

John: As I just posted. This problem does not happen every time. You don't have to be doing any agressive driving in order for this to happen. However, when it happens you will quickly realize it.

Thanks Bill.

I did drive my truck again yesterday and I still couldn't get it to do what you guys are describing.

This is just plain weird.

John L.

 

[Bill]

I also drove my truck today. During a typical Saturday traffic maze, I stayed clear and drove on the county roads. Got the truck to go into D/P twice and got the engine lag three times. Things just keep getting worse. During each engine lag, I got a check engine light and also the ETC light to come on. First time this has happened. Two problems as I see it. One, D/P. Two, engine lag. ~ "Chrysler where is the cure??????????????????????

 

[Bill]

Life is Good ~ Be Happy! If it an't broke, don't try to break it. However, and there is always a however ~ if it's made by man it will sooner or later break. It may be weird John especially when I can get brand new 2014's off the dealers lot to do it. "However" ~ keep on truck 'un down the road. If it happens to you, you have an advantage over others who don't know about this problem so when it happens it won't surprise you. I have a huge advantage about this problem. It's been happening to me since 2012 and up to and including this date. It happened with the 4, 1/2 ton RAM HEMI'S, my 2012 2500 and 2014 3500 and my 2014. And it's well documented at the dealership. Somehow, Chrysler has to bring this to the forefront of all Dodge owners, past, present and those future buyers.