Chrysler response to Dead Pedal

[DonFitzwater]

I am at 18000 miles and only notice it on occasion. The last time it was pulling out to pass, was doing about 30 to 40 MPH and as I pull into the left lane and floored it, it was as if I never moved the throttle for several seconds then it took off. Of coursed the car in that lane wasn't happy as they caught up to me.
Larry

Classic dead pedal Larry.

 

[MCSloan]

I have about 12000 mile on truck and have dead pedel off and on. Seems to be getting worse. Didn't have problem till about 7000 mi. Most of the time can work around it but at times it takes you by surprise when you least expect it. Usualy worst when starting out after a stop sign.

 

[Deleted member 995608]

Food for thought: The next time you owners with dead pedal experience the dead pedal, try to take note what's activated in your rigs at the time of delay. Such as exhaust brake, tow haul mode, wipers,......whatever. I keep thinking it's an interruption in communications within the brain of these trucks, like the radio is on, EB is on and every time I use the left blinker signal and try to accelerate at the same time, I get the dead pedal. Does that make sense?

 

[Bill]

The scary part is, one never knows when it will do it. So I suppose one could say it is consistent by not knowing when it will do it. The data recorded is a good idea but in the owners manual and as I just posted to another forum member, these trucks are suppose to have a black box, just like commercial airliners. Was installed in case you got into a wreck. The police could take the black box and obtain information such as how hard the brakes were applied, how fast the truck was going, etc. So I am going to tell the ser. mgr when I take the truck back to the dealer (again) to see if he can pull this black box out and obtain any useful information that relates to this problem. Additionally, Chrysler can also pull info from this box if you were in a wreck and they felt it was your problem. Also, as I said, can obtain other useful information from it.

No, didn't demostrate it at the dealer because as I said, it is not consistent. If the dealer wants to pay for all the diesel, I would be more than happy to drive the ser. mgr around town or on the open road until it does do it. I had to do that when I owned 4 of the 2013 Dodge 1500's. Engine would stall without any advanced warning. I was blamed for driving with my left foot above the brake pedal. According to the mechanics, that was the so called problem. When my left foot touched the brake, he said it would stall the engines. The service manager did finally get it to stall when he was doing exactly 45 mph and touched his foot on the brake pedal. I had to find this information myself but the problem was called TBS ~ Throttle Body sensor. It was designed if your engine did run away with you, all you had to do was touch the brake and it would stall the trucks. It was a built in safety thing, designed by Chrysler but nobody ever told the ser. mgr's or mechanics. When the Toyota engines were running away on people, there was no way to stop it. So Dodge had the TBS designed to stall the engine. However, one had to hit the brake IF the engine ran away. But with this case of Dead Pedal, hitting the brake does not give power back to the engine for a few seconds. Just long enough to possible create one heck of a wreck.

Yea, don't understand why other forums are not picking up on this. My "barber" knows about it.

 

[sag2]

The black box is there and records the 5 seconds up to point of impact. So will not help in this case. Dealers do not have access to this data, but most large police agencies have the tool to download the data after an accident. As I mentioned you need a good data recording template put together by the technician and drive the truck with it on. It will record whatever they specify (that's why you need a bright technician to set it up!) for up to 60 seconds before and 60 seconds after you hit the record button.
Anything else is just a waste of yours and the dealers’ time. The dealer has these tools to use when they have an intermittent problem, so why not use them.
And the safety feature (anti run away) you are talking about has been in all Chrysler vehicles with electronic throttle controls for many years. It does not kill the engine, it kills the throttle. It leaves a fault code that the dealers refer to as the two footed driver code. It only works if the throttle is depressed before the brake. It has an algorithm that is dependent on throttle, brake application (newer vehicles with brake position sensors are more sensitive) and road speed. If you’re going slow it might take effect slowly, if going fast it may only take a second or two.

 

[DonFitzwater]

"for up to 60 seconds before and 60 seconds after you hit the record button." I tried to PM you Sag2 but your messages are full.............but you answered my question anyway about how far back the event recorder can retrieve info after the record button is depressed.

FYI-I took my wife's Hemi powered 1500 for a long drive to see if there are any similarities with regard to dead pedal and there weren't any. No matter how I drove it, the V-8 took off and ran like a bat out of hell any time I mashed the throttle.............

 

[MJWenrich]

Been out of town for a few days in La La land, Los Angeles for the uninitiated, and experienced the issue every time I floored the pedal. Every time, no matter if it is in or out of EB, toe/haul, or anything else. Like someone else mentioned, if I ease the pedal on I can get power. But not enough to pass another vehicle safely. I am at 4400 miles now. Really like driving the truck otherwise but this issue had me aborting two passing attempts yesterday. I have to peer out around a slower vehicle, usually a truck, and then if it is safe to pass, count one thousand one and one thousand two before getting power to make the pass. By then something came around a curve ahead and I had to drop back. This is really a pain in the arse. The second failed attempt had me blocked for ten more miles. Slower vehicles don't use the turnouts anymore.

I filed the complaint with the safety board but have not filed one with Ram. Will do that when I can figure out who to call. But I did mention this to the factory rep at May Madness. If he mentioned the issue to anyone in power of a repair, and he should have, there should be a fix on the way. With all of the vehicles having this issue I cannot believe no one knows about it. I plan to take my vehicle in to make a formal complaint but I already asked a service rep if there is a TSB on this issue and was told no. So it will be a dead run other than to file a formal complaint.

Mike

 

[TCDiesel]

"for up to 60 seconds before and 60 seconds after you hit the record button." I tried to PM you Sag2 but your messages are full.............but you answered my question anyway about how far back the event recorder can retrieve info after the record button is depressed.

FYI-I took my wife's Hemi powered 1500 for a long drive to see if there are any similarities with regard to dead pedal and there weren't any. No matter how I drove it, the V-8 took off and ran like a bat out of hell any time I mashed the throttle.............

If you expect the Cummins to behave like Gas / hemi you may want to purchase a for sale sign (Sell the hemi HeHe), This is a common occurrence most Diesel engines will have some lag, couple that with high gearing= lag.. Every Mercedes Diesel engine I've owned or operated had terrible lag..after getting use to it....managing it wasn't so bad.

I have notice in both My 13/14 have some lag, I just step farther on the Pedal then they get up and move (Haul rear), then I jump into My 14 Hemi and its always giving Me the verbal warning of speeding.:-laf

My 03 and 05 left the hole Much better then My 13-14, But they never cruised at 75/80 like my 13-14 Do, Heck I even like going across SD/ND now at 80.

 

[DonFitzwater]

If you expect the Cummins to behave like Gas / hemi you may want to purchase a for sale sign (Sell the hemi HeHe), This is a common occurrence most Diesel engines will have some lag, couple that with high gearing= lag.. Every Mercedes Diesel engine I've owned or operated had terrible lag..after getting use to it....managing it wasn't so bad.

I have notice in both My 13/14 have some lag, I just step farther on the Pedal then they get up and move (Haul rear), then I jump into My 14 Hemi and its always giving Me the verbal warning of speeding.:-laf

My 03 and 05 left the hole Much better then My 13-14, But they never cruised at 75/80 like my 13-14 Do, Heck I even like going across SD/ND now at 80.

I've been reading a lot on the web about "Electronic throttle lag". Seems certain gas engines experience it also. I know exactly how a Cummins normally behaves as I've owned dozens ranging from first gen's to my current 14 and none behaved in this manner, ever.

 

[SnoKing]

When I got a P0216 code and two causes of dead pedal I changed the VP-44 right away. Did not want to make a left turn in oncoming break in traffic to get T-Boned! My 2001.5 with PDR35-12W is very responsive!

Everyone should continue to file complains on WWW.safercar.gov , that will get RAM attention quicker than anything else.

SNOKING

 

[Deleted member 995608]

I still think there's some confusion between typical lag from Diesel engines and the dead pedal some of these new truck are experiencing.

The dead pedal is just that, dead. Driver steps on the pedal and nothing occurs for a brief period. I have experienced this in two of the 2014 trucks that I've test driven lately. I drove my buddies 2014 Aisin 3500 yesterday and it has the dead pedal syndrome. So much it can be replicated every single time.

This dead pedal isn't turbo lag, where we're waiting for the turbo to spool up or like when the truck is loaded, facing up hill and trying to take off from a stopped position.

 

[SnoKing]

"I still think there's some confusion between typical lag from Diesel engines and the dead pedal some of these new truck are experiencing. "

My 93 stock had a lot of lag, and a Banks waste gated Turbo helped a lot!

A modern 2014 diesel truck should not place the driver and passengers in a compromised position because the truck can not get out of it's own way intermittently!

SNOKING

 

[Ram4Sam]

Assuming this is a by product of complying with emission regulations.......Interesting dilemma.....asking the govt for help to resolve an unsafe situation in a motor vehicle, that was created by a mandate on the mfg. made by the govt........

Sam

 

[Bob4x4]

No response from the pedal is not the same as a less then robust accel from a stop.Hopefully all this discussion isn't confusing some into thinking those diferent conditions being the same

 

[MattandLana]

No response from the pedal is not the same as a less then robust accel from a stop.Hopefully all this discussion isn't confusing some into thinking those diferent conditions being the same

I agree. I haven't got my truck yet, so no personal experience, but folk are definitely talking on these forums about two different things:

1. Slow off-the-line performance, aka 'I need to push much harder on the pedal than in my old truck/than I want to, to get moving as fast as I want to'. Generally attributed to torque management, emissions limitation, or just how the fly by wire throttle sensor profile has been programmed. Solution: Folks speak highly of a plug-in throttle sensitivity booster, which changes the profile and simulates pushing harder on the pedal. Other folks just say get used to it, these ain't dragsters. Each to their own.

2. Dead pedal. You accelerate slightly, then back off for some reason, then come back on the gas, and there is zero response for a reported 1-2 seconds - a veeeeery long time as traffic bears down on you. Not just poor off-the-line performance, the pedal seems to be completely ineffective. It's dead. Problem is, the main time one would do such a thing is trying to enter a stream of moving traffic. Sounds scary.

 

[TFucili]

I've been reading a lot on the web about "Electronic throttle lag". Seems certain gas engines experience it also. I know exactly how a Cummins normally behaves as I've owned dozens ranging from first gen's to my current 14 and none behaved in this manner, ever.

My '05 CTD was the only throttle-by-wire vehicle I've driven that I didn't notice a non-linear, unpredictable response. We had an '02 Volvo wagon that had a serious case of intermittent dead pedal. You'd be driving down an on-ramp, mash the go pedal, and... nothing... no bucking, no snorting, no sputtering... all while traffic is closing fast. It was like I had not moved the throttle. For folks who have not experienced it, and are equating it to turbo lag, it's not even close. Talk about pucker factor. That thing was back and forth to the Volvo dealer oodles of times. They claimed to have changed every component/module in the TBW system, but it never went away. I was genuinely afraid for my wife's saftey(it was her car)so we traded it off and lost our *** on it. We had an '06 Charger with 3.5, and while the TBW was unpredictable and non-linear, it never had the dead-pedal issue. The more electronics they pack into vehicle, and the more disconnected I feel as a driver, the less I want to own new vehicles. Since I never drank, smoked, gambled, etc., buying a new rig every now and again is my only vice.

 

[surfbeetle]

Sadly nothing is going to happen because of the NHTSA. I had a Chevy 6.5 Diesel with the electronic injection pump and drive by wire. My Suburban went through seven injection pumps, all under GM Warranty, I wasn't the only one to have this issue. I filed with the NHTSA because it was a definite safety issue when the car completely stalls without warning in traffic.

 

[NWatchel]

My '14 2500 is having the dead pedal issue too. At first I thought it was the poor shifting of the 68RFE but the pedal definitely is dead at the most inopportune times it seems. I have a long s--t list with this truck, but I'd rather push her than go back to a Dmax or Ferd.

 

[Kry226]

I'm reading where the 1500 EcoDiesel guys are having the issue too.

 

[SnoKing]

I'm reading where the 1500 EcoDiesel guys are having the issue too.

Mostly likely the same firmware writers/program in the ECU/PCU! SNOKING