Clutch failure at 4418 miles

[EricViviano]

Pretty sad when your clutch fails before the first oil change. But that is exactly what happened while pulling a horse trailer on the ID/WY border. Wanted to bring this to G56 owner's attention, there are other people who have had the same failure. The dealer replaced the clutch hydraulics, throwout bearing, clutch, and flywheel under warranty. I never saw the failed parts with my own eyes. The official word was the slave cylinder failed, apparently taking out the other parts in the process.

Very unnerving, you buy a new truck for reliability, now in the back of your mind you wonder if your hydros will fail again 100 miles from the nearest town.

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[nukegm]

comrade - my 18 2500 tradesman hydraulics failed at approx 6000 miles. dealer replaced clutch slave and master cylinder assembly. picked up truck, didnt even make it home. towed back to same dealer. they had truck for 29 days. ended up with 3 hydraulic assemblies, and new flywheel/clutch/p.p. it was a cluster f#*&. thankfully ram stepped up and made my monthly payment and covered 2 flatbed bills as well. good on them. hope your parts came quick. national backorder for me. cheers!

 

[EricViviano]

@nukegm - That does sound like a cluster f#$%. As you can see from the work order, ours was in the shop nearly a month also waiting for parts that I would assume any Mopar parts depot would have on hand.

 

[nukegm]

@nukegm - That does sound like a cluster f#$%. As you can see from the work order, ours was in the shop nearly a month also waiting for parts that I would assume any Mopar parts depot would have on hand.

i missed that at first glance. sorry comrade. the ironic thing for me is that i bought g56 for 2 reasons. one being that im a caveman, and the other for simplicity/reliability. my 01 2500 six speed has 240k on it and works just fine aside from rotting to the ground...i figured the 18 with a manual would be the same. i figured wrong. cheers!

 

[EricViviano]

@nukegm - Same here. Never owned an auto, no reason to start now. I always said the day I can no longer run a manual truck, I will ride my horse. I even had one dealer tell me "you should have bought the AISIN". What nerve as my 50K truck is down. I replied back "Maybe FCA shouldn't build a POS". Funny thing is it worked fantastic for 30 years. Then you get the people "the automatics have come a long ways and are better now". That may be true. But if a guy wants a manual, they outta be able to get one. Hopefully for both of us this was just a batch of crap mexican parts and we have seen the last of this issue.

 

[nukegm]

copy that comrade. all we can do is keep fingers crossed.
previous to 18 ram had a 16 with the hemi. auto trans drove me insane ,so i got the cummins g56.
cheers!

 

[jgillott]

Obviously , nobody wants to have am issue with a new truck. Hopefully the replacement parts will last quite a long time.

When you end up making the repair on your dime, a good quality conversion clutch from South Bend Clutch is highly recommended.

 

[EricViviano]

@jgillott - The day the 5yr/100k powertrain warranty is up, full delete and single disc valair with HD hydraulics.

 

[petersonj]

I never saw the failed parts with my own eyes. The official word was the slave cylinder failed, apparently taking out the other parts in the process.

i missed that at first glance. sorry comrade. the ironic thing for me is that i bought g56 for 2 reasons. one being that im a caveman, and the other for simplicity/reliability. my 01 2500 six speed has 240k on it and works just fine

@nukegm, there are two reasons your '01 clutch has lasted 240,000 miles and my '02 made it to 297,000 miles. The reasons: our trucks use a single mass flywheel and no self-adjusting pressure plate - simple, and bullet proof. Also, you may want to consider changing out your clutch now. As hindsight, I wish that I had replaced mine earlier (around 250,000 miles). My pilot bearing failed (spit out the needle bearings) and the failure damaged the input shaft pilot bearing surface. I did not replace the input shaft and I may pay for that in the long run.

@EricViviano, there have been many, many reported early clutch failures since the introduction of the G56 with the dual mass flywheel and the self-adjusting pressure plate. One of the TDR members mentioned that future designs in the hydraulic portion of the clutch operation is being considered with controls that could take over the engagement of the clutch under certain conditions - for example, if your foot slipped off the pedal, the controls would engage the clutch at a slower rate to reduce a shock load. Maybe this has already been introduced into the newer trucks?

@EricViviano, how is your 2005 truck with the G56 doing? It should have come factory with a dual mass flywheel.

- John

 

[Newsa]

@nukegm - Same here. Never owned an auto, no reason to start now. I always said the day I can no longer run a manual truck, I will ride my horse. I even had one dealer tell me "you should have bought the AISIN". What nerve as my 50K truck is down. I replied back "Maybe FCA shouldn't build a POS". Funny thing is it worked fantastic for 30 years. Then you get the people "the automatics have come a long ways and are better now". That may be true. But if a guy wants a manual, they outta be able to get one. Hopefully for both of us this was just a batch of crap mexican parts and we have seen the last of this issue.

Tell the dealer an AISIN is not optioned for the 2500

 

[nukegm]

@nukegm, there are two reasons your '01 clutch has lasted 240,000 miles and my '02 made it to 297,000 miles. The reasons: our trucks use a single mass flywheel and no self-adjusting pressure plate - simple, and bullet proof. Also, you may want to consider changing out your clutch now. As hindsight, I wish that I had replaced mine earlier (around 250,000 miles). My pilot bearing failed (spit out the needle bearings) and the failure damaged the input shaft pilot bearing surface. I did not replace the input shaft and I may pay for that in the long run.

@EricViviano, there have been many, many reported early clutch failures since the introduction of the G56 with the dual mass flywheel and the self-adjusting pressure plate. One of the TDR members mentioned that future designs in the hydraulic portion of the clutch operation is being considered with controls that could take over the engagement of the clutch under certain conditions - for example, if your foot slipped off the pedal, the controls would engage the clutch at a slower rate to reduce a shock load. Maybe this has already been introduced into the newer trucks?

@EricViviano, how is your 2005 truck with the G56 doing? It should have come factory with a dual mass flywheel.

- John

petersonj - thanks for the info. i was not aware of the " self adjusting " p.p. knowing that makes me want to throw it in the dumpster...i would consider changing out the clutch now, if i can find out if that will or wont void the warranty of the downstream mechanical components. cheers!

 

[RVTRKN]

Bummer, I own a AE (second genration) G56 and the clutch was toast at 30K from a glitch. (long story) So I had a South Bend DDS 3250 and SMF installed, besides the noisey dual disk, it has been fllawless to date and 40K miles. Your older NV5600 is a different animal altogether. My 04.5 was awesome with never a problem, my brother bought it and put another 100K on it. The G56 is a weak transmission, and is a good reason why the HP is lower than the auto version you own. That being said, you can convert it to the NV5600 with a little modification. That is whats on my wish list when my G56 gives up the ghost, but its like the energizer bunny, and it just keeps on going. You can also go with a AD G56, which has lower gearing making life easier on the trans.

 

[EZeis]

My 07 had 143k on the original dual mass and clutch. Sold it to my buddy. He put another 10k on it. Pulled it apart this weekend and disc looked new. Dual mass had broken springs though. He put another Luk dual mass clutch kit in it. I smoked that clutch a few times in a tight area with the 5th wheel as well. So definitely made us realize the factory dual mass setup is plenty good. Original hydraulics too. He reused the old hydraulics.
I remember when 3rd gen guys were blowing out the clutches at 10k or less miles back in the day.
Key is don't slip it, engage at idle! But that won't help if the hydraulics fail.


Earl

 

[GCroyle]

@nukegm, there are two reasons your '01 clutch has lasted 240,000 miles and my '02 made it to 297,000 miles. The reasons: our trucks use a single mass flywheel and no self-adjusting pressure plate - simple, and bullet proof. Also, you may want to consider changing out your clutch now. As hindsight, I wish that I had replaced mine earlier (around 250,000 miles). My pilot bearing failed (spit out the needle bearings) and the failure damaged the input shaft pilot bearing surface. I did not replace the input shaft and I may pay for that in the long run.

@EricViviano, there have been many, many reported early clutch failures since the introduction of the G56 with the dual mass flywheel and the self-adjusting pressure plate. One of the TDR members mentioned that future designs in the hydraulic portion of the clutch operation is being considered with controls that could take over the engagement of the clutch under certain conditions - for example, if your foot slipped off the pedal, the controls would engage the clutch at a slower rate to reduce a shock load. Maybe this has already been introduced into the newer trucks?

@EricViviano, how is your 2005 truck with the G56 doing? It should have come factory with a dual mass flywheel.

- John

Not sure if I'll get this multi quote thing figured out but the second comment about the control that takes over the control over the engagement...like if your foot slipped off.

It exists. Luk Peak Torque Limiter

Pretty sure the first time I saw it was on a G56. It's at the end of the line just above where the 45 is that goes into the slave cyl. It looks like a thing about the size of a small PCV valve, roughly. LuK calls it a Peak Torque Limiter and has in my simple words a flow restriction orifice that is open during release (pedal down) and can throttle down reducing the orifice size and the rate of engagement on the foot slipped off scenario like you mentioned. It has a spring, a little piston like thingy. But I haven't read anything into the OP's comment that points in this direction, this is just a comment on it's existence.

These have also shown up on some Mitsubishi and Hyundai I think.

To the OP, any comments about what the drivability symptoms were? Not the autopsy report, the truck did this and such when I did this report.

Prior to failure:
Shifting qualities.
Pedal feel and effort.
Slipping under load.

Gary

 

[Newsa]

My setup has approx 53,280 miles with no failure. I only have 5000 miles of towing ( Wondering if the heat generated by towing makes the slave cylinder crap out quicker?)

 

[GCroyle]

Newsa,

A clutch that is not slipping doesn't make heat and the Dodge exhaust is on pass side. The master cyl, slave cyl and line are on drivers side. Ford in the older -97 7.3L had insulation jackets around the cyl but they had exhaust on both sides.

Gary

 

[nukegm]

Not sure if I'll get this multi quote thing figured out but the second comment about the control that takes over the control over the engagement...like if your foot slipped off.

It exists. Luk Peak Torque Limiter

Pretty sure the first time I saw it was on a G56. It's at the end of the line just above where the 45 is that goes into the slave cyl. It looks like a thing about the size of a small PCV valve, roughly. LuK calls it a Peak Torque Limiter and has in my simple words a flow restriction orifice that is open during release (pedal down) and can throttle down reducing the orifice size and the rate of engagement on the foot slipped off scenario like you mentioned. It has a spring, a little piston like thingy. But I haven't read anything into the OP's comment that points in this direction, this is just a comment on it's existence.

These have also shown up on some Mitsubishi and Hyundai I think.

To the OP, any comments about what the drivability symptoms were? Not the autopsy report, the truck did this and such when I did this report.

Prior to failure:
Shifting qualities.
Pedal feel and effort.
Slipping under load.

Gary

for what its worth, the original clutch slave cylinder at 6000 miles was leaking at the reservoir.
the 2 replacement units leaked inside the clutch housing area ( accdg to the dealer ) where the leak couldnt be observed easily.
the driveability on my truck was the same as the o.p. ( cannot shift when truck is running ) before it really gave up, i could shift with difficulty by double pumping the clutch pedal...cheers comrades!

 

[Newsa]

Newsa,

A clutch that is not slipping doesn't make heat and the Dodge exhaust is on pass side. The master cyl, slave cyl and line are on drivers side. Ford in the older -97 7.3L had insulation jackets around the cyl but they had exhaust on both sides.

Gary

Just saying, it seems like the slave cylinder is the weak spot. Heat can travel from the tranmission to the clutch housing. Also, the clutch can slip under load even if properly adjusted with some tuning on the engine.

 

[Shiner]

@nukegm - Same here. Never owned an auto, no reason to start now. I always said the day I can no longer run a manual truck, I will ride my horse. I even had one dealer tell me "you should have bought the AISIN". What nerve as my 50K truck is down. I replied back "Maybe FCA shouldn't build a POS". Funny thing is it worked fantastic for 30 years. Then you get the people "the automatics have come a long ways and are better now". That may be true. But if a guy wants a manual, they outta be able to get one. Hopefully for both of us this was just a batch of crap mexican parts and we have seen the last of this issue.

Wouldn't be a bit surprised if the parts were Chinese....

 

[TFucili]

It won't help you a bit, but we had an '86 F-350 w/6.9 and T19 that had the needle bearing pilot fail and the resulting debris and misalignment kept the clutch from disengaging. I personally had an '87 F-250 w/6.9 and T19 that lost it's first clutch master cylinder at @1500 miles, stepped on the clutch and felt something drip on my boot, quickly lost all clutch action. This happened three times in 50K miles, and the guy that bought it also had to replace a couple. Junk parts are nothing new, and certainly not a MOPAR exclusive. And dual mass clutch failures also started with the blue oval boys IIRC.