Clutch failure at 4418 miles

[EricViviano]

@petersonj - I have heard of some early failures but 4400 miles? That has to be a freak occurrence, I'm hoping. My 05 has brand new engine and solid flywheel with about 100 miles on it. Had the dual mass when I pulled it apart. That is now sitting in my scrap pile.

Others ask why not install the single mass now, I'm not going to throw my warranty out the window. Believe me, I had a complete single mass conversion sitting on my shop floor, I asked the dealer to install it and keep my warranty, they declined.

 

[petersonj]

Others ask why not install the single mass now, I'm not going to throw my warranty out the window. Believe me, I had a complete single mass conversion sitting on my shop floor, I asked the dealer to install it and keep my warranty, they declined.

I understand your concerns regarding your warranty - I would have the same concerns. I don't think I saw anything in yours posts about what exactly you experienced (the symptoms) when you first had the clutch problems. I am curious to know what there were.

The dealer replaced the clutch hydraulics, throwout bearing, clutch, and flywheel under warranty. I never saw the failed parts with my own eyes. The official word was the slave cylinder failed, apparently taking out the other parts in the process.

I am also curious if the someone at the dealership explained to you the how the slave cylinder failure caused the, "apparently taking out the other parts in the process".

If the clutch hydraulic circuit has the "peak torque limiter" that @GCroyle mentions, then I could understand how a mal-functioning unit may trap returning hydraulic fluid and cause the clutch to slip under a load and damage the clutch.

But, if the "peak torque limiter" is not in the hydraulic circuit, then I don't understand how a failing hydraulic circuit would cause "taking out the other parts in the process". I could understand hard to shift issues or not being able to get the transmission into gear easily or not at all, but I can't visualize how it would harm the rest of the clutch parts.

It would be interesting if someone at the dealership could explain the cause and effect with a little bit of detail.

Hopefully, all your troubles are behind you now.

- John

 

[GCroyle]

OK this is a pic of the flow control unit from a G56. The 45 is at the top right, kinda upside down . Not sure why I put two sets of innards in this shot, they only use one. Flow in this case is L-R for engagement (pedal coming UP) and the parts are in correct orientation.

And if you see a round "can" right under the master cyl, that's a NVH damper. I've seen them on CC but not pickups that I know of.

 

[EricViviano]

@petersonj - There where no symptoms. Ran great last time I drove it. Wife was coming back from Utah with a loaded horse trailer and said she went to shift into 5th gear in the canyon and it would just grind. She tried to go back to 4th and it would grind. Would not go into any gear with the engine running. I was at work when all this occurred so I'm just going from second hand accounts.

I too wonder how a slave cylinder failing would take out the entire clutch assembly, and probably will never have an answer to that.

 

[RVTRKN]

You can shift clutchless, its just getting started thats a problem. I don't do it, because a Dodge tech told me its not a good idea to do that with the G56.

 

[Newsa]

I bought an extra clutch slave/master cylinder hydraulic unit for my truck to carry with me on this summer's 7000-8000 mile trip. But if the system is designed in a way that clutch fluid willl leak all over the pressure plate and clutch plate/ flywheel, if it goes out on the road, replacing the hydraulic unit won"t get me back on the road. And I"very hadu such good luck with the current unit lasting 53,200 miles, I don't want to replace it with one that might fail after 5k (halfway through my trip.
I've replaced this once in the parking lot of my condo with no problem on an old 1996 Hyundai. But that design didn't let the clutch fluid leak on the previous plate/clutch plate

 

[nukegm]

I bought an extra clutch slave/master cylinder hydraulic unit for my truck to carry with me on this summer's 7000-8000 mile trip. But if the system is designed in a way that clutch fluid willl leak all over the pressure plate and clutch plate/ flywheel, if it goes out on the road, replacing the hydraulic unit won"t get me back on the road. And I"very hadu such good luck with the current unit lasting 53,200 miles, I don't want to replace it with one that might fail after 5k (halfway through my trip.
I've replaced this once in the parking lot of my condo with no problem on an old 1996 Hyundai. But that design didn't let the clutch fluid leak on the previous plate/clutch plate

comrade newsa - where did you find replacement hydraulics for your rig? i think that is a good idea to carry a spare. from what i understand, they come prefilled and are not serviceable in any way. i tried napa and car quest for my 18 2500 last year but they didnt carry one for a brand new truck. cheers!

 

[Newsa]

I bought mine on ebay. It came in a box from a dealer/mopar parts supplier in a ram/dodge/jeep box.

It comes with the fire wall mounting plate... But you just disconnect that unless you were in an accident and need to replace that too.

 

[Newsa]

Comrade nuke. This video is for installing an upgraded aluminum system. But it shows removal of the OEM and installation of the OEM is the reverse

 

[nukegm]

Comrade nuke. This video is for installing an upgraded aluminum system. But it shows removal of the OEM and installation of the OEM is the reverse

THANKS newsa! appreciate the info. enjoy your posts as well. happy monday comrade. cheers!

 

[Newsa]

THANKS newsa! appreciate the info. enjoy your posts as well. happy monday comrade. cheers!

Before our trip, i plan on separating the firewall mounting plate from the master cylinder so it's ready to install on the side of the road if necessary. Will just lightly clamp the plastic mounting plate in the vice twist it 45 degrees and separate it

 

[sag2]

OK, now that I looked at it, how in the world did a leaking slave ruin all the clutch parts inside the bell housing? Something isn't adding up on a couple stories here.

 

[EricViviano]

You can shift clutchless, its just getting started thats a problem. I don't do it, because a Dodge tech told me its not a good idea to do that with the G56.

Shifting a synchronized trans without the clutch is very hard on it, not recommended for the life of the trans.

OK, now that I looked at it, how in the world did a leaking slave ruin all the clutch parts inside the bell housing? Something isn't adding up on a couple stories here.

I would assume brake fluid coated the clutch, but do not know. Wasn't there when it happened, never saw the parts when they where removed.

 

[GCroyle]

I would assume brake fluid coated the clutch, but do not know. Wasn't there when it happened, never saw the parts when they where removed.

OK, the report was clutch failure, cannot shift.

Did the boss (lady driving the horse rig) comment on how the pedal felt? Normal effort, absolutely no effort, that sorta thing.

If the hydro's blew out then I'd expect a near ZERO effort pedal. If the hydro's were intact then we'd get a report of some version of yes, I feel it making pressure.

Also if the hydro's blew out, that's gonna leave evidence on the facings IF the brake fluid contaminated the disc and caused clutch slippage and a what is that smell comment is likely too.

Handsome guy in that video wonder who it is?

Gary same name as guy in video.

 

[sag2]

Handsome guy in that video wonder who it is?

Gary same name as guy in video.

I wasn't going to say anything!

 

[EricViviano]

@GCroyle - Gary she honestly doesn't remember, she was so scared "I was going to kill her for braking our new truck".

But I have noticed a smell lately, since we got the truck back, smells like hot brakes, you can smell when outside the truck. Is there a "break in" for the dual mass setup? I know it's "self adjusting". I honestly thought the smell was related to all the emissions garbage but now I'm thinking it's not. Drove it yesterday, drives great.

I couldn't image they could have installed something incorrectly on the clutch, these Dodge dealers have done hundreds over the years I'm sure. I mean the setup hasn't changed for 15 years.

 

[GCroyle]

A clutch can appreciate "normal" stop and go driving for a while to seat or burnish the facings, however you want to call it. It's a matter of knocking the high spots off of the facings and getting a nice seat. The OEM style pressure plate/clutch cover assy is self adjusting, not the DMF.

Taking the trans out is pretty major surgery, did they get a big oily hand on the exhaust pipe and you're smelling that sorta stuff?

I think when you're ready it's time for a VALID torque capacity test.

Running in 5th or 6th keep your foot off of the clutch pedal and then accelerate, hard. RPM and MPH should increase like normal, RPM cannot rev up or spike that's slippage. IF slipping, back off immediately. Now the next it is a HD truck test, repeat going up a bit of a grade, same criteria. RPM and MPH are sync'd. Hear engine REV or smell anything, back off.

If you can have a passenger make a video of dash showing test and slipping, good idea then show SVC MRG.

And for a new install and suspect slipping, here's my top two possibles.
1. Did not clean casting friction surfaces. These need to be real clean, brake cleaner type spray, fresh rag, repeat.
2. Way too much spline lube or incorrect lube. Grease on input shaft to prevent corrosion, std practice. Over greasing input shaft, flings off and contaminates disc. Wrong lube typical would be any anti seize. It also flings off and contaminates.


"I couldn't imagine they could have installed something incorrectly on the clutch......"

My $.02 it's all about the details and attention to those details.

Gary

 

[mfurrh55]

You can shift clutchless, its just getting started thats a problem. I don't do it, because a Dodge tech told me its not a good idea to do that with the G56.

I've been floating the gears on my 07 since it was new, I replaced dual mass at 125k and it was still good, I put single in, at 198, 000 I'm still shifting without clutch.

 

[Regcabguy]

I've been floating the gears on my 07 since it was new, I replaced dual mass at 125k and it was still good, I put single in, at 198, 000 I'm still shifting without clutch.

What's the purpose?

 

[mfurrh55]

What's the purpose?

Got used to it driving semi, and it doesn't hurt the Clutch or the flywheel