Clutch is out. Look worn out?

[bgilbert]

Got my trans/t-case, and all clutch hardware out. The Harbor Freight 2000lb trans jack worked flawlessly. Well I better not jinx it, I still gotta put it back up there . The pressure plate, clutch and flywheel actually looked better in this one than the 90 D350 Cummins 5 speed I parted out aways back. What do you guys think that have seen clutches and flywheels out? Look worn, beat, look as though it's been hot etc?

 

[bgilbert]

Couple more. I ended up leaving the t-case attached to the getrag. I didn't see how to balance it once I removed it from the getrag. So I just supported the t-case with a jack and then removed the trans mount, then had to grab the two from the side. Probly was more of a headache trying to pull the two sideways, instead of just pulling the assembly straight back with the trans jack. I'll line it up so I can push the jack straight into the bellhousing upon reinstall.



Any loctite necessary on any of the flywheel, pressure plate or bellhousing bolts? I need to do some reading:-laf. .

 

[B.G. Smith]

The clutch plate looks normal, certainly not worn out. The face of the pressure plate and flywheel look normal. Can't really tell by looking if the pressure plate is good or not, if the diaphragm is intact and all the fingers are even and not worn out where the throughout bearing contacts them , it's probably ok. What is the discoloration on the tips of the fingers on pressure plate? Was the throw out bearing bad? And that red tint on everything? bg

 

[bgilbert]

I don't know what all the red stuff was. Looked like a bunch of rust. It was everywhere. I sorta thought everything looked ok, says alot for driving habits with 500hp/1000ftlb with the stock Sachs clutch. Here is one of the throw out bearing.

 

[B.G. Smith]

Throw out bearing red too? I bet it is gone or going, I would install new through out and pilot bearing whatever you do with the rest. bg

 

[bgilbert]

Throw out bearing red too? I bet it is gone or going, I would install new through out and pilot bearing whatever you do with the rest. bg

I'm pretty sure I have a new throwout bearing in the South Bend Clutch kit. Not sure about the pilot bearing. Where is that?

 

[B.G. Smith]

It is in the end of the crankshaft. You may need a blind hole puller to remove it. If you can find a round bar or bolt that is exactly the size of the transmission input shaft, sometimes you can fill the pilot bearing with wheel bearing grease and drive the bar in, forcing te bearing out. Works better with the old style solid bronze bearings. You may also need a special installation tool if the bearing is a needle bearing. You can usually borrow or rent these tools from auto parts places. If it is a needle bearing, there will be a lip seal on one end, this end faces outward, be sure to put some grease on the needles before you install the transmission, just fill the voids around and at each end of the needles, too much and it will end up on your clutch. bg

 

[bgilbert]

I have nothing in the end of the crankshaft. Just some muck/crud/grease looking stuff around the ID- dead center- not around the seal. What is the thing pressed into the flywheel? There looks to be something in the old flywheel, and something with looks to be needle bearings in the new flywheel that came in the SBC kit.



Any antiseize on the input shaft, or install dry? I wonder if a parts house like Napa would have a Getrag 'top cover' gasket? I'd like to use one, for some reason the 5 qts of oil leaks out the top.

 

[B.G. Smith]

The manual says the bearing is in the end of the crankshaft and that is where every one I ever saw was. I have not been into a CTD clutch. The manual also says the bearing comes prelubed from the factory and needs no extra lube? Use your own judgement on that one, I would use grease if i added anything as never seeze seems to have a way of getting on every thing in the area. Don't think you will find the gasket anywhere but the dealer, there are some silicone sealers and others that will work on there though, just find one that is recommended for oil service and follow the instructions. bg

 

[Paychk]

The stock engine has a brass bushing pressed into the flywheel, upgrades are the needle bearing or machine it out for a ball bearing such as quad4X4.com provides. I would grease the input shaft tip and needle bearing lightly with high temp grease. Not sure if Napa would have the Getrag gasket, any of the know getrag transmission shops would have it or make one from gasket material.

 

[bgilbert]

Thanks Alan. I'll give Standard Gear a call Monday for the gasket. Any loctite required on any bolts? High temp grease lightly on the tip but not the splines of the input shaft?

 

[Sri Ram]

Quad 4x4 has getrag top cover gasket. I'd recommend the pto filter, too. Room for over 5qts. I haven't seen any leaks so far…

 

[bgilbert]

Quad 4x4 has getrag top cover gasket. I'd recommend the pto filter, too. Room for over 5qts. I haven't seen any leaks so far…

Good deal, I might just get it all from them. I was considering the filter kit as well.



BTW is this old clutch, pressure plate and flywheel worth anything?

 

[MMiller]

BTW is this old clutch, pressure plate and flywheel worth anything?

Yep, scrap iron, or core to a clutch rebuilder. If I put it in my truck, cause I was being cheep, I would not make it around the block and it would fail. To my eyes, on this end, it looks like the clutch disc is glazed from heating/slipping and it look to me like there are grooves, or high spots in the flywheel, by the rings in it. As long as there is no heat cracks in the flywheel, I'd grind it and reuse, but if your going to spin this motor, at more hp like I know you are, I'd be looking for a good flywheel, if your new clutch did not come with one. In my 'old' age I've seen enough parts fail in hard running trucks, and I'm starting to fear a flywheel through the floorboards.



I would make sure that you get a good needle bearing or roller bearing installed for the pilot. With a little good grease. Don't go overboard, you don't want it to end up on your clutch. Install the flywheel with a little red locktight on all the bolts, torque it. Then just before you install the clutch, spray the flywheel down with brake cleaner, the disc, and the pressure plate, and put it together without touching any of the mating surfaces. A little dab of locktight on the pressure plate bolts and make sure the pilot shaft slides in and out smoothly as you tighten the bolts to spec. Make sure you can easily pull and install the pilot shaft after torquing the pressure plate. If you can't don't even try and stab the transmission in.



Does your getrag cover have some sort of breather port in it? I believe my upper end leak is coming from an open port in the cover. I know my getrag was replaced under warranty with a reman unit back in '97.



I myself would rather put the getrag/205 in and out as a unit, seems to be more easy to balance, and handle, then having them separate. I have toyed with the idea of making an attatchment that bolts to the 205 so it can be removed by itself. I ain't brave enough/stupid enough/strong enough to pull/install a 205 with my bare arms.



Make sure you look at the splines on the output of the getrag, and the coupler in the 205. I've been reading about them failing on the DTR and here. I'll bet yours is slightly abused.



Michael

 

[bgilbert]

The South Bend kit comes with a new flywheel with needle bearing. So I got that part covered. I think the getrag has a breather up next to the shifter hole. I think I'll only run 1 qt overfill instead of 1. 5 over this time.



Pilot shaft??? You talking about the plastic input shaft doohickie that comes in the clutch kit to hold the clutch disc in place?



I bet if one was to drill two holes in their trans jack plate, they could bolt the trans to the plate.



Question, are the four bolts that secure the getrag to the bellhousing enough to support the getrag and t-case long enough for me to lower the trans jack, get it out of the way, then get a floor jack up to support the rear of the 205, while I reinstall the trans mount?

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

I will give you one heads up here... . install the bell housing on the trans first. I just went through this with 2 trucks apart in the garage, of course both 5 speeds.



On the first one, we installed the bell housing on the truck first. BIG mistake. The tolerance between the bell housing and the trans is VERY tight. Fought and fought with it, push- pull. Finally we took off the bell housing from the motor, and put it on the trans..... went right in.



On my truck, I did the same for the bell housing ( on the trans ) and needed no help getting it in. Cherry picker did its job again.



As far as needing a gasket on the top trans cover... ... just use red high temp silicone. Been doing that for a while and no problems either.



Are your parts worth anything... ... . ? ... ..... put them on ebay... ... . youll find out.



Hope this helps .

 

[MMiller]

The South Bend kit comes with a new flywheel with needle bearing. So I got that part covered.

Cool

I think the getrag has a breather up next to the shifter hole. I think I'll only run 1 qt overfill instead of 1. 5 over this time.

I've been thinking about changing the breather(maybe tap it for pipe thread and install a 90* fitting), so I could put a small hose on it, and then run the hose up into the engine compartment, and then put some sort of small breather in the end of the hose. That way it could be up high, and oil would not be able to get out.

Pilot shaft??? You talking about the plastic input shaft doohickie that comes in the clutch kit to hold the clutch disc in place??

Yep. Make sure it comes out and goes in easily and smoothly. This will help the transmission input shaft to go in and out smoothly.

Question, are the four bolts that secure the getrag to the bellhousing enough to support the getrag and t-case long enough for me to lower the trans jack, get it out of the way, then get a floor jack up to support the rear of the 205, while I reinstall the trans mount?

I would worry more about the bell housing itself, or the motor mounts. What you could do is get a piece of square tube, cut it to a length that would slide into the frame rails. Get the transmission/tcase bolted to the back of the engine, get the square tube in the frame rails, and then position it so you could let the drive train down just a little on to the tube. Remember that if you let the transmission/tcase hang on the engine with no support, the valve cover will probably mash in to the fire wall, and the fan will probably hit the shroud and maybe the radiator. How did you support the engine while you pulled the transmission? I sometimes put a jack stand under the oil pan with a 2x4 or something else as to not dent the pan.



Are you going to rebearing/reset the getrag?



Michael

 

[Paychk]

Thanks Alan. I'll give Standard Gear a call Monday for the gasket. Any loctite required on any bolts? High temp grease lightly on the tip but not the splines of the input shaft?

Yes to the splines... just the thinnest film of high temp grease on the splines... don't want to fling it all over the clutch disc.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Bill,



Has the rear main seal been replaced? If not I would suggest doing it now!



Just my 2 cents but I would avoid the needle bearing set up and go to the sealed ball bearing...

 

[bgilbert]

How did you support the engine while you pulled the transmission?

Used a jack stand with a 2x4 on it.

Tearing into the getrag is not my specialty, all I'm gonna do is add a filter kit and top cover gasket. I really like that idea of tapping it and adding a 90* fitting/hose. If I only had a tap kit .



Rear main seal is dry, ain't gonna fix it if it ain't broken.



So the bellhousing to engine bolts are strong enough to support the getrag/205 unit for 10 seconds or so/long enough to lower the trans/205, pull the trans jack out the way and raise up the floor jack to support the rear of the 205??



I've heard of guys removing the getrag/205 AND trans mount crossmember as a unit, hmm maybe I shoulda tried that. .