Clutchless shifting?

[PKitchen]

Most of you say that shifting up without using the clutch is bad on the synchros. But what about shifting out of gear into neutral when slowing down? I almost never use the clutch in this situation. I just let the RPM slow to about 750-800 in gear then it pops right out with very little effort. Am I causing undue wear to the transmission by doing this?

 

[DFrank]

All my dodges have been auto, but I used to drive a 74 international whose clutch linkage broke. I drove it for a month with no clutch. Start it in granny and apply light pressure on the stick as you let off the gas. It slips out easily as the load comes off the transmission. To re-engage you needed to try to match rpms but it went easily. I suspectthis transmission did not have syncros, but i dont know.



Sorry if none of that is very relevant.

 

[CSilkowski]

Re: double-clutcher

Originally posted by EEngel

Sorry guys, I have to ask... I am sitting here with a dazed/confused look on my face. I have never heard that term before. Is it just pumping the clutch once prior to shifting?

Only two ways to shift a non-synchronized transmission like what's on the semi trucks 1) clutchless or 2) double-clutch. No way you could shift such a transmission regularly like we can in our passenger trucks and cars. It is not uncommon to be unfamiliar with the concept, especially if you've never played around with semi's before.

 

[STEVEBROOKS]

Found this thread and saw it's applicable to me. I've owned my '88 Jeep Comanche (with the 4.0 liter straight-six engine) since new, and have shifted it clutchless for 200,000+ miles. It still shifts flawlessly, and I've only put one clutch/pressure plate/throwout bearing assembly in it over the years. In light of the age of this thread, I'd like to hear from anybody who has shifted their NV5600 clutchless over the years about the resulting wear/tear (or lack thereof).

Steve

 

[RustyJC]

Ummmm....you are aware that New Venture is out of business and that parts for the NV5600 are becoming more and more scarce as well as more expensive, right??

If so, carry on and shift your NV5600 however you want.

Rusty

 

[STEVEBROOKS]

Ummmm....you are aware that New Venture is out of business and that parts for the NV5600 are becoming more and more scarce as well as more expensive, right??

Rusty

Yes, I am

If so, carry on and shift your NV5600 however you want.

Rusty

This doesn't answer my request for info

Steve

 

[RustyJC]

Well, I could tell you about the big rig driver who bought my 48K mile 2002 HO/NV5600 in 2010 and proceeded to shift it like his large car. He went through a transmission rebuild last year to replace the synchros as well as the output shaft that he managed to twist in two. Is that more responsive?

Rusty

 

[STEVEBROOKS]

Is that more responsive?

Rusty

Yes, it is

Steve

 

[BSeyler]

Post #3 should tell you something. He had a whole thread about it, but I haven't located it. Search and you'll probably find it:
https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/226583-6-speed-trans?p=2184226#post2184226

 

[Shadrach]

... I almost wish I could trade out my 6 speed for a Roadranger.

I had a customer call me the other day about getting some parts so he could put a 13 speed Roadranger in his 03. I wasn't able to help him but ask him to keep in touch because I would like to see his truck if he ever gets it done. David

 

[NIsaacs]

I had a customer call me the other day about getting some parts so he could put a 13 speed Roadranger in his 03. I wasn't able to help him but ask him to keep in touch because I would like to see his truck if he ever gets it done. David

This RTO6610 is for sale local. A friend of mine sent me an e-mail about it about a month ago. It was installed and removed from a Dodge, 1st gen I think. The owner/installer towed an RV to the Northwest, drove back empty and pulled it out. I guess he didn't like it. I would guess that he is a dang good fabricator/mechanic but maybe not a truck driver in the sense of driving a 10 spd without sycro's. It is complete as installed.

I would like to have it for my Ford but I am spending all my money on truck pulls this summer:-laf Sorry, the pic's are kinda big I can't figure out how to make them smaller.

Nick

 

[NAllen]

I drove a truck and trailer for over 20 years I was told when I first started and now tell other people it is much cheaper to fix or replace the clutch then the trans. I always have and always will use the clutch.



03 HO QC LB 6 speed

 

[rscurtis]

Here's a video of a '99 Dodge with an RTO 6610 10-speed OD Roadranger. It's about the same weight as an NV 5600. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDEHv4Yifc4

 

[chip61]

I want one!!! Looks like a real short throw for a road ranger

 

[AEdelheit]

Well, I could tell you about the big rig driver who bought my 48K mile 2002 HO/NV5600 in 2010 and proceeded to shift it like his large car. He went through a transmission rebuild last year to replace the synchros as well as the output shaft that he managed to twist in two. Is that more responsive?

Rusty

I would really like to know how shifting without the clutch broke an output shaft, im guessing the two are unrelated.

 

[RustyJC]

Not totally unrelated. The output shaft was a casualty of another big rig habit of his; namely, to get in top (6th, in this case) gear ASAP and leave it there regardless of ground speed, engine RPM, load, etc. until it lugged down and forced him to downshift. Unfortunately for him, however, with the DD2 injectors and Edge EZ, the Cummins would fuel and pull hard even down at 1000-1100 RPM, but the rattling gears in the NV5600 were trying to tell him that there were torsional vibrations going through the transmission. He ignored them and paid the price - the output shaft was a victim of a torsional cyclic fatigue failure. When they got into the transmission, they found that the syncros were trashed from his clutchless shifting.

It's not like I didn't try to tell him the difference between a synchro and non-synchro transmission when he bought the truck. As is evidenced in this thread, however, sometimes you can't help a man who doesn't want to be helped.

Rusty

 

[mfurrh55]

How many of you use your clutch when shifting? I showed my truck to a guy at work who has an older 350 dually 5 speed, and noticed right away that he prefers to NOT use the clutch when shifting. I tried it a bit today, and it seems like a fun way to drive the truck. Is this technique easier on the clutch?

I've always floated the gears, the only time i use the clutch is for stopping and taking off, it does not hurt your synchros either, been doing this for the last 20 yrs. haven't had any problems yet, i did it when i drove a semi and all my pickups, the trick is letting everything line up, your clutch lasts longer too, and i'll argue with anybody who claims different, Monte

 

[AEdelheit]

I think in the end it comes down to how smooth you are, if you think you can shift without the clutch and jam gears I can see issues, If you are really good about floating gears I really dont see it causing issues. I know my NV's I could float gears easily and would rarely use the clutch, on my G56 I could never smoothly float gears so I always used the clutch.

 

[DClark]

Here's a video of a '99 Dodge with an RTO 6610 10-speed OD Roadranger. It's about the same weight as an NV 5600. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDEHv4Yifc4

One look in the mirror tell me why he wants a 10 speed. As for me, unless I'm pulling heavy loads like that all the time, a 6 speed is a great plenty. Unlike my NV4500 in my '98, my G56 w/ 3.73s sifts way too many times around town for convenience. I'm reasy for a 6-speed auto. Was'n much interested in a 4- speed auto, but the 6 speed looks much better and better built for the job. The NV4500 will shift clutchless easly, probably still not good for the trany. G56 is real hard to shift without the clutch. I don't try it. Don't want to buy an overhaul.
DClark

 

[SRay]

I have shifted without the clutch in both my Dodge and all the Big Rigs I drive.

The nv4500 shifts nicely and has been for 300,000 kms since installation.

The g56 cannot be shifted without the clutch. Terrible transmission for that. I'll never own one either. If I bought a manual 2014 truck, the g56 gets the boot.

I have lugged my nv4500 at low rpms with all kinds of loads with no issues so far. Gears look like new still since being opened up in the spring for the new 3250 clutch.