Clutchless shifting?

[mfurrh55]

I have shifted without the clutch in both my Dodge and all the Big Rigs I drive.

The nv4500 shifts nicely and has been for 300,000 kms since installation.

The g56 cannot be shifted without the clutch. Terrible transmission for that. I'll never own one either. If I bought a manual 2014 truck, the g56 gets the boot.

I have lugged my nv4500 at low rpms with all kinds of loads with no issues so far. Gears look like new still since being opened up in the spring for the new 3250 clutch.

I have been shifting my G56 without the clutch for 134,000 miles trouble free, Monte

 

[SRay]

Monte: that's good if you've figured the best way to do that.

The g56 felt really bad if shifted wrong. Went back to shifting with the clutch as it was my boss's truck.

 

[mfurrh55]

Monte: that's good if you've figured the best way to do that.

The g56 felt really bad if shifted wrong. Went back to shifting with the clutch as it was my boss's truck.

The trick is to line up the transmission with engine and road speed, it'll drop right in the gear with no problem, I shifted the NV 4500 without a clutch for 127,000 miles and the only problem i had was the clutch mastercylinder developed air in it from non use, and when my wife tried to drive it, it wouldn't go into reverse or first without forcing it, i put new master and one piece unit with lines all the way to the slave cylinder, took care of that problem, so far haven't had that problem with the G 56, I hear you though, if you don't feel comfortable with not using the clutch while shifting don't do it, you'll probably tear something up, my brother has a NV5600 and i tried to float it, had trouble, so didn't try anymore, Good luck, Monte

 

[BIGNASTY]

Some of the heavy petroleum products, when hauled in smooth bore tank trucks it worked better to use the clutch to get it OUT!! of a gear and slide it into a taller hole especially if you had your foot in it climbing a grade and wanted to shift up, this is why I liked the 13 speed you were able to split the upper side of the main box using air

Not always but if it needs to be explained to you then you should use the clutch. JMO

 

[jgillott]

Monte: that's good if you've figured the best way to do that.

The g56 felt really bad if shifted wrong. Went back to shifting with the clutch as it was my boss's truck.

I've never been happy with the shift feel of my G56 from the day it was new. I've never even attempted to shift it without the clutch. Too scared that their will be pieces scattered out on the ground if I do.

 

[SRay]

Jgillott: yeah, not a fan of aluminum cases either. My boss's 09 has had a g56 replaced at 400,000 kms but always used the clutch too.

I believe the g56 does not belong behind any cummins.

My 1997 12v would explode the g56 easily.

 

[jgillott]

Some of the heavy petroleum products, when hauled in smooth bore tank trucks it worked better to use the clutch to get it OUT!! of a gear and slide it into a taller hole especially if you had your foot in it climbing a grade and wanted to shift up, this is why I liked the 13 speed you were able to split the upper side of the main box using air

Not always but if it needs to be explained to you then you should use the clutch. JMO

My company had an old International tri-axle with a 10 speed that acted that way. You couldn't get it out of gear without the clutch. Then, if you rushed that shift even a little, you needed a small miracle to get that thing in to gear again. Had a few choice words come out of my mouth at times in that truck, especially when I would screw up so bad that I had to stop and start out again. Of course, if anyone asks, I've never missed a shift. :-laf

 

[jgillott]

Jgillott: yeah, not a fan of aluminum cases either. My boss's 09 has had a g56 replaced at 400,000 kms but always used the clutch too.

I believe the g56 does not belong behind any cummins.

My 1997 12v would explode the g56 easily.

Other than the 3-4 gap, I loved the NV-4500 in my former '01. That truck did 450 hp/970 tq on the dyno and never had an issue with it outside the clutch.

 

[BIGNASTY]

My company had an old International tri-axle with a 10 speed that acted that way. You couldn't get it out of gear without the clutch. Then, if you rushed that shift even a little, you needed a small miracle to get that thing in to gear again. Had a few choice words come out of my mouth at times in that truck, especially when I would screw up so bad that I had to stop and start out again. Of course, if anyone asks, I've never missed a shift. :-laf

The reason for using the clutch to get it OUT of gear was, when hauling a constantly moving load and especially in a smooth bore tank trailer, the INSTANT you let off the throttle the load rushed forward and it put a bind on the drive train and getting out of gear in a bind is next to impossible. If you did happen to get it out of gear you had lost so much speed and RPM it became a two hole DOWN DROP to start over again. Just stab the clutch in and out to pop it out of gear and slide it into a higher hole just like on normal clutch-less shifting.

We use to haul some REALLY HEAVY Product to Northern NV for the Air Force, the tank was normal size but the product being so heavy made for lots of room in the trailer for the stuff to slosh around, Taking freeway transitions at a normal speed was a sure ROLL OVER that product would crawl up the side and over the truck would go.That Product would test your shifting skills every shift of the trip. YES I MISSED MORE THAN MY SHARE OF SHIFTS

 

[S.Morris]

The more worn and loose the transmission is (RoadRanger) the easier it is too shift. Years ago rebuild 13spd for a guy and he came back complaining something wrong with transmission as it was hard to shift. LOL. I showed him how worn his old main shaft and sliding clutchs were compared to new (like he now had). After seeing and understanding how it actually worked he used the clutch on cold oil and really brushed up on his rev matching till he got good again(and or) wore the sharp angles off the front of the sliding clutches again.
Shifting a syncro transmission without clutch will damage syncros....more or less depending on skill. Some trannys take to it better like the Getrag or NV4500 and the 5600 is not worth the risk considering how much of a bear it is to rebuild and high price of internals. YMMV . Worked a few years with my brother at Pacific Inland Powertrain..........

BigNasty: You got it......moving liquid in a smooth wall tanker without baffles learns you real quick to be smooth. Ever haul liquid caustic? about 40% heavier than water for same volume.....lets you know real quick to pay attention

 

[BIGNASTY]

Some of the stuff that I hauled to Northern NV and Over to the UT and CO border (Dugway) I didn't want to know what it was, my only requirement was that I didn't want to haul an Inhalant Hazmat, I could take the thought of bombs, Chemicals that explode but, Inhalants were just something that I didn't like. Most of it was with pilot cars and it felt VERY HEAVY no placards and didn't stop at scales.

 

[mwilson]

Caustic hauler here!!!! Also Bleach, Acid, Asphalt and Bunker "C" (or #6) oil. Always liked the bunker trips, tri-axle air ride Heils with baffles. Fill to the top ring and boogie.

Titanum Dioxide was used by some of the mills as a colorant or whitener. You would only have a half a tank full for a legal load. Slam the crap out of you at every light and set of rail road tracks. You would get it all timed out to slow down gently and be setting at the tracks and all of a sudden there would be one giant "Wham"....you learned to keep your foot on the air brake treadle right off quick....

 

[BIGNASTY]

Oil was weird went to stop and it felt right but just after the complete stop the wave would come and push on you, first time I hauled oil and this happened I thought someone was pushing my truck from the rear.