Code P203E / Service DEF System message

[Wayne M.]

Speaking of repair costs, Stan, why are FCA parts so hard to get and so expensive?

 

[HPSimpson]

So FCA can shaft the owners of diesel engines, parts are made as needed no hurry.

 

[EDankievitch]

Welcome to The Just In Time production mode of thinking most manufacturers have been using for the last two decades. Keep no parts on hand, inventory as low just enough to build today’s shipments. All great until supplier can’t deliver. Or you need repair/ replacement parts.
Keeps costs low profits high. Screws the customer after the sale.

 

[EDankievitch]

Welcome to The Just In Time production mode of thinking most manufacturers have been using for the last two decades. Keep no parts on hand, inventory as low just enough to build today’s shipments. All great until supplier can’t deliver. Or you need repair/ replacement parts.
Keeps costs low profits high. Screws the customer after the sale.

 

[Wayne M.]

Welcome to The Just In Time production mode of thinking most manufacturers have been using for the last two decades. Keep no parts on hand, inventory as low just enough to build today’s shipments. All great until supplier can’t deliver. Or you need repair/ replacement parts.
Keeps costs low profits high. Screws the customer after the sale.

I totally disagree. The reason I’m so puzzled about the horror stories I read right on this board, about trucks being tied up for inexcusable amounts of time waiting for recall parts and SCR pumps/ heater units and their costs, is because I personally experience how brand F has a handle on this supply and cost situation.
This is not about which truck is better (they both have issues) but F has low prices and a great supply. I can rebuild an entire SCR system (pump, heater, line, injector) for about $1200 and the parts are in stock or at the depot, one day away.
It’s been a long standing polity on this board not to hit, especially the dealer or manufacturer, but the game has changed to dramatically. They’ve been asking for it!

 

[Ms Elizabeth]

Driving home and the EVIC says to service the DEF system. Checked the code..... P203E, Reductant Level Sensor Circuit Intermittent / Erratic. Oddly today is when I filled the DEF tank with close near 5 gallons of fresh DEF. I wanted to use up as much stuff in the tank before I filled it up again. It was at 1/4 tank when I filled it... Just touching the red zone on the DEF gauge. I cleared the code and I'll keep an eye on it, With 8500 miles on it I should not be getting any "service" messages gosh darnit. Hopefully it's just a one time thing and resolves itself.

Hi RAMily, glad this “service DEF system see dealer “ topic is still here,
14 July 2020
It has happened to me 3 times
First two
Went into limp mode!! Right now, check engine light, error message and chime...Dealer can’t find anything wrong
Wants to put in a new def pump at $2,500
Always buy Peak fluid
Never run it low..

I can’t believe spending that on my truck
After I spent a fortune to buy it!!
There must be sone kind of recall
Warranty
?? This is a widespread problem
Help please
2016 RAM 2500
6.7 diesel. 64,000
Miles in
California

 

[JR]

Doesn't California have a mandatory 7 year/70k mile emissions warranty?

I would have thought the factory warranty would have covered that, hopefully your dealership isn't glossing over the details.

 

[R.Taylor]

Doesn't California have a mandatory 7 year/70k mile emissions warranty?

I would have thought the factory warranty would have covered that, hopefully your dealership isn't glossing over the details.

CARB Website says 5 years/100000miles/3000hours for diesel vehicles but I don't know if that's for commercial or private.

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

Hi RAMily, glad this “service DEF system see dealer “ topic is still here,
14 July 2020
It has happened to me 3 times
First two
Went into limp mode!! Right now, check engine light, error message and chime...Dealer can’t find anything wrong
Wants to put in a new def pump at $2,500
Always buy Peak fluid
Never run it low..

I can’t believe spending that on my truck
After I spent a fortune to buy it!!
There must be sone kind of recall
Warranty
?? This is a widespread problem
Help please
2016 RAM 2500
6.7 diesel. 64,000
Miles in
California

If a def pump from a ‘14 will work on your truck, I have a used one that worked perfectly when removed that I’m willing to part with.

Just checked Rockauto and the part numbers are the same for a ‘14 and ‘16 so it would work on your truck.

 

[Ms Elizabeth]

If a def pump from a ‘14 will work on your truck, I have a used one that worked perfectly when removed that I’m willing to part with.

Just checked Rockauto and the part numbers are the same for a ‘14 and ‘16 so it would work on your truck.

Thank you
I’m not even sure how’d I put it in
...
I do live in an Agricultural area
Lots of diesel mechanics here

 

[R.Taylor]

Thank you
I’m not even sure how’d I put it in
...
I do live in an Agricultural area
Lots of diesel mechanics here

Goes in from the bottom.... Pretty straight forward.

 

[HPSimpson]

Will the DEF tank need to be empty to replace said pump?

 

[R.Taylor]

Will the DEF tank need to be empty to replace said pump?

Yep... Sure does.

 

[HPSimpson]

Ms Elizabeth Welcome to TDR best place on the WEB for information on Ram / Cummins extremely knowledge on normal maintenance and all repairs to your truck!

 

[smittyd174]

So.... When it hit 0 miles the message changed to "5mph Max Speed on Restart, Long Idle or Refuel", No change in speed or power availability. So then I just mashed the pedal to the floor and at 102mph the EVIC message went away, Usually when it would pop up with the countdown I'd have to hit any of the 4 EVIC nav buttons on the wheel to have the message go away... But at 102mph it went away by itself, Hmmm. I went to the "messages" on the EVIC and the "Service DEF" message was gone. Drove the remaining 12 miles to the dealer and when I pulled up I shut down the truck and plugged in my reader.... No P203E code... It still had not been back since yesterday. So then I started it up and drove down the blvd and back.... Full power, No derate no nothing, 100% normal truck. Pulled back up, shut it down for a few minutes, Fired it back up and drove around the block again. No codes, no messages, no derate. So I went into the service department explained all this and the "tech"came out and said he'd seen this before and said it was most likely from being overfilled and since I drained a gallon out... The level sensor stopped giving an erratic signal code. Since the code was not present when it hit the 0 mile mark it cleared the derate and that's why the EVIC message went away on it's own. So..... I made an appointment for the 16th for the valve body recall and the "engine calibration" recall and they'll check out the DEF system to be sure it's okay.

On another note... I also asked the tech if he's had any bad CP4 trucks yet, He said yes and pointed to 2019 3500 with 12000 miles on it and a bad CP4 which took out the whole system....but also said they were running red fuel. He didn't say anything else and I didn't want press on. I don't think there is any difference other than red dye in off road fuel than on road fuel... It's all the same ULSD, correct me if I'm wrong please. I wonder if FCA will deny warranty work due to red fuel.

View attachment 122625

Thanks for the info wonder what would happen if you put the truck in a lower gear and got the rpms up but keep the speed down. On the other hand it is a Dodge product so drive it like you stole it.

 

[Robbie Antonosn]

Good day. I believe this is my first post trying to provide some info for the group. My 2016 3500 HO/Aisin. I had let the DEF gauge get to the red, so I pored a gallon of Peak(I carried in the camper for back up for about 4 months, sealed, no signs of leakage around seal) into the tank, I found it interesting that this provided a bit more than 1/2 tank gauge read.
I drove it a bit that day, then also the next day. The following morning, temps around 24F. As it was warming up, I got the def service, see the dealer message on the dash. I did not think anything of it, I drove my truck till the engine temp was up, and oil temp was around 165. Parked the truck at work. That after noon I had to go get some parts, and the message showed up again. And again for the next few days. I read a few threads on the Def system. As I had no where really to try a speed trip at 100mph+, I left it in third gear(after warming it up), Drove it at 60-65(running 2800-3000rpm), for a good 30 miles. I did have to slow down at some stop lights a couple times, but over all was able to maintain the 60-65 for most of the 30 miles. After driving it to cool down a bit, I parked it at my shop. Then later I tried to see if the service message was gone. It was not. I drove the truck a bit, and noticed the DEF fill gauge had moved downward a bit. I went home, parked it for the night. And the next day, the service message did not return, nor has it the last two day.
I just read the whole 10 pages of the Supertech date code thread today. I believe I will be removing and seeing how plugged up that injector passage is, and clean it as a service item. I have 63,350 miles on my rig, of which I have put 15 k on in the last nine months. I will post some more after removing this injector and passage way. Who knows what i will find.
Amazing resource this board is.
Thanks much, Robbie

 

[smittyd174]

Driving home and the EVIC says to service the DEF system. Checked the code..... P203E, Reductant Level Sensor Circuit Intermittent / Erratic. Oddly today is when I filled the DEF tank with close near 5 gallons of fresh DEF. I wanted to use up as much stuff in the tank before I filled it up again. It was at 1/4 tank when I filled it... Just touching the red zone on the DEF gauge. I cleared the code and I'll keep an eye on it, With 8500 miles on it I should not be getting any "service" messages gosh darnit. Hopefully it's just a one time thing and resolves itself.

I have a 2016 3500 and when mine was new it went crazy . Service def would come on and off , no codes , no mil and it would go away . 5 or 6 trips to dealer no answers, even took a picture to show them. Eventually it tripped a code , turns out that a pin in one of the connectors had pushed back making a intermediate connection. Took 5 min to fix. Great truck but too much electronics, but they're all the same.

 

[Ltngdrvr]

Good day. I believe this is my first post trying to provide some info for the group. My 2016 3500 HO/Aisin. I had let the DEF gauge get to the red, so I pored a gallon of Peak(I carried in the camper for back up for about 4 months, sealed, no signs of leakage around seal) into the tank, I found it interesting that this provided a bit more than 1/2 tank gauge read.
I drove it a bit that day, then also the next day. The following morning, temps around 24F. As it was warming up, I got the def service, see the dealer message on the dash. I did not think anything of it, I drove my truck till the engine temp was up, and oil temp was around 165. Parked the truck at work. That after noon I had to go get some parts, and the message showed up again. And again for the next few days. I read a few threads on the Def system. As I had no where really to try a speed trip at 100mph+, I left it in third gear(after warming it up), Drove it at 60-65(running 2800-3000rpm), for a good 30 miles. I did have to slow down at some stop lights a couple times, but over all was able to maintain the 60-65 for most of the 30 miles. After driving it to cool down a bit, I parked it at my shop. Then later I tried to see if the service message was gone. It was not. I drove the truck a bit, and noticed the DEF fill gauge had moved downward a bit. I went home, parked it for the night. And the next day, the service message did not return, nor has it the last two day.
I just read the whole 10 pages of the Supertech date code thread today. I believe I will be removing and seeing how plugged up that injector passage is, and clean it as a service item. I have 63,350 miles on my rig, of which I have put 15 k on in the last nine months. I will post some more after removing this injector and passage way. Who knows what i will find.
Amazing resource this board is.
Thanks much, Robbie

Well, you wasted your time and fuel doing the hard driving thing, that is not for the DEF/SCR system, that is for when the DPF gets full (which is a separate unrelated system), the hard driving helps the DPF regeneration cycle work quicker/better, but has nothing to do with DEF or the SCR system.
Very likely though, the gallon of DEF you added was weak from being old and having been stored in the truck. The system then detected the low potency of the DEF, and tripped the see dealer message. These messages often go away after some normal driving and a few restarts or after filling with fresh DEF and driving some.

 

[AH64ID]

I would top off with some fresh DEF from a pump if you can and see if it fixes it.

DEF doesn’t have a long storage life at higher temps.

 

[Robbie Antonosn]

Thanks for the comments. My thought process was that with the high rev, and fast steady injection rate of DEF to match the higher NOX levels. If the injector passageway was plugged up a bit, that the higher pulse rate would have some fluid build up to soften the crystals and maybe create a path way thru any build up. I guess I will find out this weekend when I pull the injector out, and clean out the passageway. grease up some wire connections.
As for the gallon, I find it a bit hard to believe that only being a few months old, and showing no signs of leakage(no crystals around the cap, and the inner seal, showed no signs of leakage or not sealed properly. It might of been mixed improperly at the factory. It was the first time I have used Peak DEF. Have been using Supertech for many years in other
Diesel Ad Blue systems.
I plan on keeping this truck for a long time, and learn some thing new almost every day.
Thanks again