cold climate starts

[mwilson]

One of the hazards of starting (or even touching) a vehicle with an energized block heater is the possibility that you could become the ground if there is an electrical fault.

That sir, is an excellent point.



And as many of us know ground fault outlets just hate block heaters and so a lot of folk will go find a non-ground fault circuit to plug into so that the block heater doesn't kick out in the middle of the cold, dark night... ... pretty good chance to get zapped.



Also have found that a gob of road treatment chemicals built up on the male plug on the vehicle will trip a ground fault quicker than you can say "Weasel Snot"...



Mike.

 

[jhenderson]

I don't think I'd argue with him Mike. After all, he's had 2 diesels.

 

[BIGNASTY]

... ... ... . Weasel Snot"...

 

[JR]

... ... ... . Weasel Snot"...

Rustomatic powder, road poop, shmagma, white death, aka "road salt". Easy to tell when a car has been in it too long because theyve got an abundance of "Ohio chrome" aka duct tape Up here ya either find a way to laugh about the crap or ya cry about it cuz the I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER eats a hole through your metal quicker than a corn fed Kentucky girl can empty an all you can eat buffet out :-laf:-laf

 

[Patty]

I agree, if my truck is a sissy because I plug it in, so be it.....



Nick

Seems there are 3 kinds of people when it comes to block heaters, maybe 4.

Person #1 plugs it in to keep themselves comfortable, sooner.

Person #2 plugs it in to keep the engine comfortable before a sub-zero start and avoid unnecessary wear & tear on their investment.

Person #3 plugs it in for both of the above reasons.

And Person #4, does not plug in, does not believe in it, would rather waste fuel than electricity and wants to set a personal record for how cold it was when their truck started that one time. Person #4 is one of the reasons I hate buying used vehicles... you never know what you're getting.



I must say that my main reason for plugging in is #2. Any properly maintained vehicle, fuel injected with a decent battery, gas or diesel, new or old, Ford, Dodge or Chevy will likely start (unplugged) in most every condition any of us will likely ever see, but I do not understand why anyone would want to "see if it will start" unplugged when it is extremely cold out. Why? What if it doesn't start that one time and you then kill your battery trying to get it started. Now you're just setting yourself up for a bad day! Use a timer for your block heater, you'll have a warm engine much quicker, and you'll spend much less money on electricity than you will on burning fuel at ZERO MPG while your truck sits in your driveway taking forever to warm up!



That said I've never heard that you're supposed to unplug before starting. Sounds logical for all the reasons listed. HOWEVER, makes my remote start almost useless if I have to walk outside and unplug it before I start the truck! May as well start it with the key then, and while I'm there clear off the snow and heck may as well just leave early because it's warmed up already, because I had it plugged in! Or maybe just go back inside for 1 more cup of coffee, heck it's still early.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Alberta Canada does it get cold there? :-laf I use my Espar and everyone laughed at me in the Family WHAT ARE YOU DOING BIG???? :-laf Then the wife wanted one!!!! OK I put that one on, then the FIL and BIL seems like it wasn't such a bad idea after all :-laf With cold like we get in the North lands let them call it a sissy truck at least it's warm with my A** get's in it Good for you Canada!!!

 

[NIsaacs]

One of the hazards of starting (or even touching) a vehicle with an energized block heater is the possibility that you could become the ground if there is an electrical fault.

Hummm, wouldn't that be the same as touching the refrigerator or coffee pot?



Nick

 

[mwilson]

Hummm, wouldn't that be the same as touching the refrigerator or coffee pot?



Nick

Modern appliances have protection built in, that is why there is only a 2 prong plug on the coffee pot. Not an electrician and can't remember the term for this.



However the block heater on the trucks don't carry that design and if the third prong on the plug has an accident so it will mate with someones two prong extension core you have the potential for disaster...



Mike.

 

[mwilson]

Seems there are 3 kinds of people when it comes to block heaters, maybe 4.

Person #1 plugs it in to keep themselves comfortable, sooner.

Person #2 plugs it in to keep the engine comfortable before a sub-zero start and avoid unnecessary wear & tear on their investment.

Person #3 plugs it in for both of the above reasons.

And Person #4, does not plug in, does not believe in it, would rather waste fuel than electricity and wants to set a personal record for how cold it was when their truck started that one time. Person #4 is one of the reasons I hate buying used vehicles... you never know what you're getting.



I must say that my main reason for plugging in is #2. Any properly maintained vehicle, fuel injected with a decent battery, gas or diesel, new or old, Ford, Dodge or Chevy will likely start (unplugged) in most every condition any of us will likely ever see, but I do not understand why anyone would want to "see if it will start" unplugged when it is extremely cold out. Why? What if it doesn't start that one time and you then kill your battery trying to get it started. Now you're just setting yourself up for a bad day! Use a timer for your block heater, you'll have a warm engine much quicker, and you'll spend much less money on electricity than you will on burning fuel at ZERO MPG while your truck sits in your driveway taking forever to warm up!



That said I've never heard that you're supposed to unplug before starting. Sounds logical for all the reasons listed. HOWEVER, makes my remote start almost useless if I have to walk outside and unplug it before I start the truck! May as well start it with the key then, and while I'm there clear off the snow and heck may as well just leave early because it's warmed up already, because I had it plugged in! Or maybe just go back inside for 1 more cup of coffee, heck it's still early.

Patty,



It is very hard to type and have people understand the tone of what one is trying to say. If we were face to face we would be laughing as we discussed this. Many of us have a hard time on here trying to get a point across without seeming heavy handed.



With that being said if what you are doing makes life easier for you carry on. The worst that will happen is at some point the block heater might go into early retirement and you will have to get it changed. If you have a remote start I don't blame you for not wanting to go outside, unplug the truck and then step back inside to push the button on the remote... It does seem redundant to me... ... . cant argue that



Also I am somewhat of a dinosaur as a stone cold Diesel in cold weather still terrifies me even though I am running a TDI that will start unaided to -20 below, maybe even colder. The first week of cold weather I kept the '97 plugged in and ready to go in case the TDI did not start. I'm a freak... .



I started with old Diesels back in the '70s and if you had a block heater fail in the night it meant 3 to 4 hours of time with a propane flamethrower and two pieces of 8" stove pipe under the oil pan to drive the frost out of the engine block. Then it might start,... ... ... .



That creates life-long habits in caring for Diesel engines and I have to remind myself that modern Diesels have come a long way. A B series in a Dodge pick-up is a far cry from an old NH series Cummins.



I can not even bring myself to have remote starts on any of my vehicles as I want to see oil pressure when I start them. Freaky old habit.....



So enjoy your remote start and hot coffee while looking out the window, life is short... ...



Mike.

 

[Bob4x4]

Seems there are 3 kinds of people when it comes to block heaters, maybe 4.
Person #1 plugs it in to keep themselves comfortable, sooner.
Person #2 plugs it in to keep the engine comfortable before a sub-zero start and avoid unnecessary wear & tear on their investment.
Person #3 plugs it in for both of the above reasons.
And Person #4, does not plug in, does not believe in it, would rather waste fuel than electricity and wants to set a personal record for how cold it was when their truck started that one time. Person #4 is one of the reasons I hate buying used vehicles... you never know what you're getting.

Call me a # 1 type,when it dips down to a whopping 30*

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

Call me a # 1 type,when it dips down to a whopping 30*

Dang it!!! Where's the "flipping you the bird" smiley when you need it :-laf:-laf:-laf





I plug it in whenever it gets 40ish simply because I don't like the sound of a hand full of marbles rattling round in the oil pan kind of sound when she's cold...





As for the heater... I see no harm done to it at all when plugged in while starting. As long as it's un-plugged before the element is causing the coolant to boil around it and causing it to create air pockets.



Short answer: Start and un-plug on the way to unlock the door and head straight to work = no issues.



On a side note: Those who start and leave it running WAY past the time needed for it to get up to operating temps may see issues. It all "boils" down to a temp vs. pressure thing and it can vary widely based on elevation or the health of the radiator cap.



Anyone remember 8th grade science??? Water will boil at room temp under a vacuum AND stay liquid well above the boiling point while it is under pressure

 

[JR]

Seems there are 3 kinds of people when it comes to block heaters, maybe 4.

Person #1 plugs it in to keep themselves comfortable, sooner.

Person #2 plugs it in to keep the engine comfortable before a sub-zero start and avoid unnecessary wear & tear on their investment.

Person #3 plugs it in for both of the above reasons.

And Person #4, does not plug in, does not believe in it, would rather waste fuel than electricity and wants to set a personal record for how cold it was when their truck started that one time. Person #4 is one of the reasons I hate buying used vehicles... you never know what you're getting.



Call me a # 1 type,when it dips down to a whopping 30*

Now Bob, thats just cold... ... hearted

30*, really? :-laf

 

[DonFitzwater]

Now Bob, thats just cold... ... hearted
30*, really? :-laf

No kidding! At least it's getting near zero here.

 

[David Pendleton]

I used my block heater for the first time last night. Outside temp was about -12, probably about 0 in the garage. The truck was plugged in for about 4 hours, and when I started up the truck (unplugged), the water temp was only 46. Based on other comments in this thread, I expected it to be higher.

My extension cord has a little orange LED molded into the female end, and while the truck was plugged in, it was flickering. When plugged into other stuff it doesn't do that. I've had the cord so long, I don't remember what this means.

Does anyone know if checking the block heater resistance (as mentioned earlier) is a good way to test the unit? Any ideas?

Thanks all.

 

[jhenderson]

Sounds like you need a heavier cord, or you were plugged into a GFI outlet. Either one will cause trouble.

 

[David Pendleton]

Sounds like you need a heavier cord, or you were plugged into a GFI outlet. Either one will cause trouble.

No, it's a heavy-duty cord that worked fine with my 03 CTD and no GFI.

 

[NIsaacs]

I started with old Diesels back in the '70s and if you had a block heater fail in the night it meant 3 to 4 hours of time with a propane flamethrower and two pieces of 8" stove pipe under the oil pan to drive the frost out of the engine block. Then it might start,... ... ... .



Mike.

And if it was an old 24 volt starting system (charge on 12 volts), on a cold day is when the parallel switch would fail... . then several trucks with jumper cables will not start it:-laf I hated those suckers (parallel switches)when they had a starting or charging problem.



Nick

 

[GCP]

I'll admit I'm a type 3 kinda guy. But, more of a type 1 than 2. I like to be comfy! Truth be told I'll plug in when the temps get down to around 30* (we've had a really warm winter so far). My procedure: I unplug, start her up, and set my watch for three minutes on the timer to let the grid heaters do their business, and then I'm off.

 

[Patty]

The worst that will happen is at some point the block heater might go into early retirement and you will have to get it changed.



I started with old Diesels back in the '70s and if you had a block heater fail in the night it meant 3 to 4 hours of time with a propane flamethrower and two pieces of 8" stove pipe under the oil pan to drive the frost out of the engine block. Then it might start,... ... ... .



I can not even bring myself to have remote starts on any of my vehicles as I want to see oil pressure when I start them. Freaky old habit.....



Mike.

I hear ya Mike and thanks for the words of advice. This is certainly advice that I'll be considering when it comes to my CTD, or any other vehicle I own for that matter. Unfortunately it's not my daily driver (I wish it was) and thus spends most nights in the heated garage. As for my '11 1500 RAM company (fleet) truck that is the daily driver, I plug it in when it's cold enough outside to warrant but I can't see running outside to unplug it before starting as I don't own a bolt in it! :-laf I'll take my chances on that one.



I can relate here as well. When I first started in the oilfield I operated a field that had about 20 wells with the old 1-lung Arrow 66 motors on them to run the pumpjack, before electricity was lined in to run the jacks. When they quit on a cold night for whatever reason, you'd have to drain the antifreeze into a metal 5 gallon bucket, take it off to the side of the lease and warm it with a propane tiger torch, then pour it back in the engine and get cranking it... by hand! If you didn't do this procedure you could barely turn these things with an electric starter when stone cold!



I'm positive that unless certain parameters are met when using the remote start, such as maintained oil pressure, the start is aborted by the truck's computer. RAM has to cover their bases!



Thanks again,

Patty

 

[mwilson]

And if it was an old 24 volt starting system (charge on 12 volts), on a cold day is when the parallel switch would fail... . then several trucks with jumper cables will not start it:-laf I hated those suckers (parallel switches)when they had a starting or charging problem.



Nick

And lest we forget... .



Old Positive Ground Mack Trucks



Mike.