COMP461 said:
Guess again, COMP!LOL
Ether is good food.
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Competition Common Rail, With A P-pump, , The Last Hurrah For Mechanical Injection ?
- Thread starter COMP461
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Guess again, COMP!LOL
Ether is good food.
Sled is right.
60* is old news.
60* is old news.
Comp,
You really ought to use the spell checker.
You really ought to use the spell checker.
I kind of like that spelling... ridiclueless would be even better! :-laf
if I contribute a hair more, it will be giving you too much information that you are fishing for. And I want to see what you claim you are building, not pirated pulling parts.
Besides, who said your opinion posts are any more technical than mine?
Most of yours spoute a bunch of numbers that you invented, then take a shot at the pulling engines, and you brand them "technical"????
Quit pimping your products, and go show us something on the track, if the car is even running.
if I contribute a hair more, it will be giving you too much information that you are fishing for. And I want to see what you claim you are building, not pirated pulling parts.
Besides, who said your opinion posts are any more technical than mine?
Most of yours spoute a bunch of numbers that you invented, then take a shot at the pulling engines, and you brand them "technical"????
Quit pimping your products, and go show us something on the track, if the car is even running.
COMP461 said:
If you make it to Indy, you will see 4 or 5 engines running near that timing. And the engines in the modified pullers don't start pulling at low RPM. They launch around 5000 RPM and maintain 50-90 MPH wheel speed until they shut down at the other end. And they all start and run on ether until they are warm enough to ignite the #2. Oh, wait. They might not be running P-pumps. Never mind.
N
This is more of the puller thinking, you will never get a p-pump with that much timing to get up on the converter. Period. Your right a puller starts at 5000 with no load, and pulls down the rpm band, I’ve seen the data logging graphs of several, this is how they record such big HP number, and problem is this won’t work in drag racing. If I pulled my motor backwards on the dyno I would also achieve an inflated number by cashing in the stored energy in the rotation mass.
A drag racer must start high and accelerate at 600 to 900 RPM’s pers second. That same pulling motor will lose a great deal of power, I’ve already heard how much for the very dyno these were dynoed on. The over rich, pig fat fuel system will not work when you try to accelerate a diesel.
I went back to some test on a dyno I did 6 years ago to look at the load on a clutch in a C/altered. The motor was TRE SLAWKO headed 358 Chevy a twin to a pro stock truck motor except being down about 25 hp . I pulled it at steady state and it peaked at 921 hp @ 8800 on a 600 rpm sweep it made 905 and on a 900 rpm sweep it printed 888. These numbers were achieved with added timing during the acceleration on the motors; if you added the timing during a steady state you would get lifted ring lands and pushed out head gaskets.
The purpose was to optimize the motor for each gear acceleration rate. This is what you call real R&D. we wore the poor motor out on the dyno, and had to replace the rods before putting it in the race car. Well on a hunch I decided to put in a NASCAR dyno program and see what the motor makes on deceleration on gear change, and to look at the cylinder pressures during, I had been playing with a pizio sensor in the combustion chamber. Well the same motor pulled backwards at a mild 300 rpms per second made 1080 hp, and spiked the pressure in the chambers, this lead to a retard on gear change for . 005 of a second. In real numbers the gear change is at about 1500 RPM’s per second. And the acceleration of a good drag racer in first gear , and allowing it to jump up on the tire is about 1000 RPM’s per second
But I’m going to answer yours and sled putters remarks in the way it was intended. You don’t believe I can produce a motor as good as the so-called leaders of the diesel world.
My remark is on the accelerate development curve I now am ascending to , I believe that I am currently capable of building one of the most advanced diesel drag racing engines in the country. I have already proved this. Two other shops renowned for their diesel abilities have entered the diesel drag racing world, and ridiculously big money was spent on one truck and more then adequate money was spent on a dragster. And the results are what!!!!!! Go on answer me the results before you comment one more word.
Face it whether they are currently leading the quest for power , or I am the leader , you are not either one of us , so where dose that leave you , as nothing but a spectator to Diesel engine development you run you yap, like the kid at a street race that always has a buddy with a faster car , and when it gets here , or gets finished , or what ever the story , you never see it , or when you do see it , you find as usually the case its all hype . Sled putter , what have you innovated on a diesel engine lately ?
A drag racer must start high and accelerate at 600 to 900 RPM’s pers second. That same pulling motor will lose a great deal of power, I’ve already heard how much for the very dyno these were dynoed on. The over rich, pig fat fuel system will not work when you try to accelerate a diesel.
I went back to some test on a dyno I did 6 years ago to look at the load on a clutch in a C/altered. The motor was TRE SLAWKO headed 358 Chevy a twin to a pro stock truck motor except being down about 25 hp . I pulled it at steady state and it peaked at 921 hp @ 8800 on a 600 rpm sweep it made 905 and on a 900 rpm sweep it printed 888. These numbers were achieved with added timing during the acceleration on the motors; if you added the timing during a steady state you would get lifted ring lands and pushed out head gaskets.
The purpose was to optimize the motor for each gear acceleration rate. This is what you call real R&D. we wore the poor motor out on the dyno, and had to replace the rods before putting it in the race car. Well on a hunch I decided to put in a NASCAR dyno program and see what the motor makes on deceleration on gear change, and to look at the cylinder pressures during, I had been playing with a pizio sensor in the combustion chamber. Well the same motor pulled backwards at a mild 300 rpms per second made 1080 hp, and spiked the pressure in the chambers, this lead to a retard on gear change for . 005 of a second. In real numbers the gear change is at about 1500 RPM’s per second. And the acceleration of a good drag racer in first gear , and allowing it to jump up on the tire is about 1000 RPM’s per second
But I’m going to answer yours and sled putters remarks in the way it was intended. You don’t believe I can produce a motor as good as the so-called leaders of the diesel world.
My remark is on the accelerate development curve I now am ascending to , I believe that I am currently capable of building one of the most advanced diesel drag racing engines in the country. I have already proved this. Two other shops renowned for their diesel abilities have entered the diesel drag racing world, and ridiculously big money was spent on one truck and more then adequate money was spent on a dragster. And the results are what!!!!!! Go on answer me the results before you comment one more word.
Face it whether they are currently leading the quest for power , or I am the leader , you are not either one of us , so where dose that leave you , as nothing but a spectator to Diesel engine development you run you yap, like the kid at a street race that always has a buddy with a faster car , and when it gets here , or gets finished , or what ever the story , you never see it , or when you do see it , you find as usually the case its all hype . Sled putter , what have you innovated on a diesel engine lately ?
So what you guys are trying to say is that sled pulling and drag racing are different. Really??? That's just crazy... .
So maybe those people who have proved themselves on the drag strip should continue to share their insight, and those people who drag sleds should go participate in a shed putting thread. Or at least they can quit being so negative and stick to what they know.
OK, back to the topic.
Mechanical injection has lots of history, and lots of development. I drive a P-pumped truck. Why? Because it is simple and easy to modify. Do I think it is mechanical injection is the future of high performance diesels? Absolutely not. There is no question that with additional R&D, computer controlled injection will be the capable of more power, higher efficiency and lower emissions.
P-pump on a common rail block? Why waste your time? Put the time into advancing common rail injection development and sharing what you learn here.
So maybe those people who have proved themselves on the drag strip should continue to share their insight, and those people who drag sleds should go participate in a shed putting thread. Or at least they can quit being so negative and stick to what they know.
OK, back to the topic.
Mechanical injection has lots of history, and lots of development. I drive a P-pumped truck. Why? Because it is simple and easy to modify. Do I think it is mechanical injection is the future of high performance diesels? Absolutely not. There is no question that with additional R&D, computer controlled injection will be the capable of more power, higher efficiency and lower emissions.
P-pump on a common rail block? Why waste your time? Put the time into advancing common rail injection development and sharing what you learn here.
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't see dragracing only on the subject line.
How about you post the data logs from that pulling engine you claim you saw, eh COMP?
I don't believe YOU can produce an engine at all. All you do is post loose theory, that SOMEONE, MAY, be working on. Or what you would like to see.
And then you bash the leaders of the Diesel power industry every chance you get.
Yet, I'm the negative one.
Heres a little more negativity, "I have combined a common rail block and head to the P-Pump "
BS. Post a picture.
Posting a random thought on the internet does not make it real COMP.
How about you post the data logs from that pulling engine you claim you saw, eh COMP?
I don't believe YOU can produce an engine at all. All you do is post loose theory, that SOMEONE, MAY, be working on. Or what you would like to see.
And then you bash the leaders of the Diesel power industry every chance you get.
Yet, I'm the negative one.
Heres a little more negativity, "I have combined a common rail block and head to the P-Pump "
BS. Post a picture.
Posting a random thought on the internet does not make it real COMP.
What’s real sleddy , is the number on the score board . kind of like a full pull, it’s all talk till the score board lights up. Some motor programs I am currently working on , might get talked about ,but I’ll not put pictures on here , and give up a some of the hard work. Same with other projects , like the new common rail racing controller , and modifications to the CP3 pump, are not something to let out to every one , because it would give up the hard work, and this is what racing is all about.
Its just like the cam grinds I currently run , they are intellectual property of John Russin at Buddha Power . thru an agreement with him , I run his grinds , but they are not available to any one, even Doc. The cam cards are in my possession , and will stay that way. This is part of the quest to develop power , and some times , the parts , or ideals are “ tight “ as we put it . on that thought I will give credit to John and his grinds , they are a key player to running these motor up high , John dose a lot of R&D and the little numbers on that cam card make a huge difference . I would venture to say that no one in the country is even in the same ballpark as him , but with one little leak , all that work would be a common denominator .
So I will from time to time give little insight in to what I am doing , but will not again post pictures , graphs , or any thing else that would level the field in favor of the person that might potential be on the other side of the tree from me
Its just like the cam grinds I currently run , they are intellectual property of John Russin at Buddha Power . thru an agreement with him , I run his grinds , but they are not available to any one, even Doc. The cam cards are in my possession , and will stay that way. This is part of the quest to develop power , and some times , the parts , or ideals are “ tight “ as we put it . on that thought I will give credit to John and his grinds , they are a key player to running these motor up high , John dose a lot of R&D and the little numbers on that cam card make a huge difference . I would venture to say that no one in the country is even in the same ballpark as him , but with one little leak , all that work would be a common denominator .
So I will from time to time give little insight in to what I am doing , but will not again post pictures , graphs , or any thing else that would level the field in favor of the person that might potential be on the other side of the tree from me
First of all, dropping names doesn't prove anything. I was talking to John before you lost your gasser ride for poor performance, and tripped into the Diesel world.
And how does using Johns stuff make you the innovator you claim to be?
As far as your 9 second run, let me tell about the 3rd base theory. There was a puller that was a leader in his field, but can't buy a win, now. Wondering why, we took a look back at his career. Turns out, when you really look at it, he started on 3rd base, with an infield single, because no one was covering 1st or second.
Now everyones hitting triples and then some.
Your tupperware truck is on third base right now, after you bunted(500 HP, no biggy. ) because noone else has bothered to do it.
You have reached the HP limits you are capable of scrounging together, so now you are talking exotic stuff, hoping to gain interest, or you just don't quite understand how a Diesel makes 1400 HP.
Talking about what someone else is doing, or thinking of doing, does not make YOU an innovator of Diesel engine performance, any more than me.
And claiming you have seen data logs for any of the major pulling trucks when you haven't, makes you something else.
And how does using Johns stuff make you the innovator you claim to be?
As far as your 9 second run, let me tell about the 3rd base theory. There was a puller that was a leader in his field, but can't buy a win, now. Wondering why, we took a look back at his career. Turns out, when you really look at it, he started on 3rd base, with an infield single, because no one was covering 1st or second.
Now everyones hitting triples and then some.
Your tupperware truck is on third base right now, after you bunted(500 HP, no biggy. ) because noone else has bothered to do it.
You have reached the HP limits you are capable of scrounging together, so now you are talking exotic stuff, hoping to gain interest, or you just don't quite understand how a Diesel makes 1400 HP.
Talking about what someone else is doing, or thinking of doing, does not make YOU an innovator of Diesel engine performance, any more than me.
And claiming you have seen data logs for any of the major pulling trucks when you haven't, makes you something else.
Sled Puller said:
didn’t learn much , from talking to John , because it sure dosen't seem liked you can listen , you would know a little more about my back ground I only use the best , and who else had enough forethought to find and acquire Johns cam knowledge.
Sled Puller said:
First you can't read , I ran a 8 second run you know that , but you keep insting its only a good nine ,this must be some of that sled puling math that they taught you if its so easy why can EDGE and their half million plus dollars , with all you big name diesel guys do it .
first my truck is made of good old Mopar factory steel, still has the dodge parts stickers affixed to the inside of the body panels , the only parts not factory steel are the front end and doors . That is an NHRA requirement for PST , no tupperware here , but you to can own one too if you wanted , , the truck is no different then any other performance power adder , like twins , if you think I have a unfair advantage , even it up and call Bickle, I’m sure he would build you one also.Sled Puller said:
And I do understand how they make 1400 hp, by pulling the motor backwards on the dyno, this is the way a sled puller runs so this is how they dyno them, the same motor on a accelerated dyno pull . meaning the way drag racer pull them would only make in the neighborhood of a 1000 hp , because not only are you giving up using stored energy in the motor , but a over rich, pig fat motor is lazy when you try to make it rev gain. So put you motor in a drag racing type vehicle , and watch the difference .
Sled Puller said:
Where do you come up with 500 hp , my truck is making around 850 hp, with in 5 or 10 hp + - of what Scott Benz’s is making. This is derived for many different simulation programs and from the performance exhibited by the 8. 72 @ 155 pass, now that it is running much faster I would give it a easy 900 to 950 or usable hp, this kind of hp is not as easy to make as you quip, , , and making it get up on the converter , and accelerate down a race track is even harder . If Iwere to negative ramp pull my motor on the same engine dyno , I would guess it would make around 1200 hp , and do it with little or no smoke. This number is arrived by factoring in the stored energy in the rotation mass , and it being expended on the dyno.
If you put one of you famed puller motors in my truck it would spit and sputter , and take an eternity to get up on the charger , and would cover the entire area in thick smoke , by the time you got it up , the fluid will be boiled out of the converter , and it would be a moot point.
Sled Puller said:
We know you not a innovator, that is apparent , you are an arm chair quarterback , and you are confident you could do it better , well come on it the waters fine , build yourself a diesel drag racing engine. I sure with you legendary and self aggrandized abilities , some one would give you the money to race one, maybe some of the more then half a dozen people that have tried to get me to put together a truck and drive or crew chief for them would come to second best. Is you phone ringing , are is there a letter in the mail box . or has some one sent you a ticket to California ? hhhhhmmmmm well .
Sled Puller said:
you forget that one of my circle of people that help me ,was the inventor of the Auto Meter data logger . and now that RPMperformance.com is his new compney , and once again hes is helpimh me . I helped install one of his first data loggers on a tractor puller about ten years ago,
I may be a little boisterous in my presents on this little site , but that is just having fun , and letting the average guy get a little insight of what I am building and what the Quickest diesel truck in the world is doing to keep it that way . but in the real world of racing , engine R&D , chassis management and putting together a sponsored program , I have only a few that I look up to as equals , and certainly your not one of them .
Last edited:
Anyone know who won the Dodger game today?
I know I wish I could afford Johns parts. But I knew that long ago.
Yep armchair allright, it just so happens, the arm chair is a 97 Dodge. I have a drag racing trophy, also COMP, 2nd place, it took Russins truck to beat me, LMAO!
Yep armchair allright, it just so happens, the arm chair is a 97 Dodge. I have a drag racing trophy, also COMP, 2nd place, it took Russins truck to beat me, LMAO!
Thats right! I love COMP like a brother-a redheaded stepbrother with a lisp, or like Cain loved Abel. :-laf
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
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Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
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What Makes Us Tick?
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