Concerned citizens and exhaust smoke

[rrausch]

hammersley said--"as I'd be willing to bet a whole lot of $$$$, that the average income of the typical Sierra Club member is at least an order of magnitude higher than us Dodge Cummins owners. "



Hammersley, this is a popular misconception... I believe... let me explain. I have actual friends who are members of the Sierra Club, they didn't join it to protest pollution, they joined it to go hiking--and yes they are in the minority. As far as we can tell, the type of person drawn to join the Sierra Club today tends to be poor Anti-Establishment Leftist idiots, who have got it "all knowed up" in regards to what we ought to do as a country. The Sierra Club caters to this type of Leftist Moron constantly, attempting to raise it's membership to above the 700,000 mark... which it can't seem to do. There are more Dodge/Cummins owners than there are members of the Sierra Club! Not so many years ago, the Sierra Club seemed to attract many retired old-timers, whose income was probably higher than ours, however with the S. C. 's ever Leftward Tilt, this type of member has been replaced by the Leftist Wacko's--which is why the S. C. is becoming a fringe outfit. Of course you wouldn't know this by watching the Media, they lick the boots of the S. C. members all the time. I do hate the Liberal Media!

 

[Bova]

So basically you've got to get your truck into the 9's to stay legal. Getting it to go 9. 99 or better is gonna cost you big bucks!sorry to hear this.

 

[EBottema]

Check out the texas air board site... Whats this ****ing **** they are trying to put in peoples minds? If you care for your car, you care for your air? What a bunch of funny ****!!!

 

[David Oxland]

I'm with you bighammer. A lot of attention is paid to a visible and stinking minority who compensate for the smoke they can't generate from the exhaust with smoke from tires (a brutal combination).

What's the point? Another person with more testosterone comes along and makes more smoke and what's it indicative of? Not power, not efficiency, Just a waste and noise and being seen and saying I can be dumber than you. .



I must say that I've not seen may modern diesel trucks on the street making us look bad but the smoke videos on this site I would not be proud to have seen in public.



It seems to me that that kind of stuff is for the trials area, drag strip or test bed. Why should someone’s grandma have to inhale our $&#*@!

David

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Two frequent bumper sticker up here are:



Wanna save a tree? Burn an environmentalist instead.



Best way to stop Global warming is gag the Sierra clubs hot air!!





In defense of the laws brought up here, I have to agree with them regardless if I think all tree huggers should be corraled and horse dragged.



I was following my wife home a while ago, I had our surburban and she was driving my dodge. She smoked up three intersections failing to downshift. The cloud filled two lanes on the first light and was a little less on the others. I was lucky enough to have the heater on in my burb, so I had half the interior filled with smoke. God did that crap stink, My eyes were watering for blocks. I can honestly say that from the recipients viewpoint it is far from entertaining or appreciated to be smoked out. We had a talk about shifting when we both got home. I am alot more aware of my tailpipe output now towards others behind me. I have smoked out tailgaters and housetramps on cel phones weaving in lines, Still will most likely. I will be using 1st gear from now on at any crowded intersections though.

The thing I want to know is how long did it take for the states to adopt and implement a time limit on exhaust smoke? Seems it must have been a problem for any politician to actually waste their time putting something that trivial on the books. I'd love to see the pipe output on a few old Pinto's or Chevy Luv trucks. I bet they're up to snuff all the time!!

 

[wxman]

Well, from an environmental perspective, particles that are big enough to be seen with the unaided eye (i. e. , "smoke") actually have relatively short atmospheric lifetimes. It's what you can't see that you need to worry about.



Unfortunately, virtually everyone associates "visible emissions" with "dirty" and anything with no visible emissions is assumed "clean". So, smoking diesels are often shown on a TV report about air pollution and there are outcries about "dirty" smoking diesel trucks. However, the tiny particles that are emitted from gassers (even new ones) are more of an environmental concern:



"…Jack Peckham of the Global Refining and Fuels Report released information in a September 17 piece that sided with diesel in comparison to gasoline when dealing with emissions. According to a “real world vehicle testing report” by University of Minnesota renowned combustion particle scientists, “new data shows that PM number emissions from modern gasoline cars may equal or exceed diesel PM levels. ” It goes on to discuss gasoline PM emissions and that fact that gasoline engines may need a particulate filter much like that of a diesel. “Ironically, while diesels are sometimes demonized by air regulators,” Peckham states, “diesel particulate filters (DPFs) nearly eliminate PM mass emissions and drastically reduce PM number emissions as well, as numerous studies now show. " The University of Minnesota study, which “used a sophisticated, truck-mounted mobile emissions lab to chase a variety of vehicles around Minneapolis-St. Paul during the summer,” showed that newer and older gasoline vehicles matched or exceeded diesel PM number emissions at high speed/load. (Gasoline Cars May Need Particulate Filters; PM Emissions No Longer Just A Diesel Issue; Global Refining & Fuels Report; September 17, 2003. )…"



Source: DTF Diesel in the News, September 2003 Wrap-up





"…Current port fuel injected gasoline engines with catalytic converters are “clean”, i. e. , they emit very low masses of PM, but emit very many ultrafine particulates…. "



Source: THE DIESEL PARADOX: WHY DIESELIZATION WILL LEAD TO CLEANER AIR

James J. Eberhardt, U. S. Department of Energy, http://www.osti.gov/fcvt/deer2000/eberharpa.pdf





"…The smaller particulates from gasoline engines, currently unregulated, present a significant health risk…. "



Source: http://babbage.me.ic.ac.uk/department/review97/th/thrr11.html





And that doesn't even address the toxicity of gasser PM:



"... Gasoline PM and semi-volatile organic compound (SVOC) emissions can be equally (or even more) "toxic" than diesel PM, as peer-reviewed, published science studies now show... "



Source: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0CYH/17_7/109443861/p1/article.jhtml





I could go on, but you get the idea. So, maybe WKener should write a letter to TCEQ complaining about his neighbors' gassers!

 

[SJRsCUMMINS]

I am suprised at the braizen and ignorant attitude a few of you show towards our government, people who care about the environment, and other people in general. That attitude smacks of thoughts that say you don't give a crap about anyone but yourself and your big bad truck that can bellow smoke on other people. Why cant you respect others and their wish to maintain a healthy planet? I don't see what is wrong with that and why you put them down. They are not "taking" rights away from you because they seek to implement rules that prevent smog or pollution that effects our bodies. Is that really a "liberal" ideal to believe in? Do you really believe that the smoke we create does not harm our environment or our health? If you are so afraid of the rights being taken from you, please focus your energy on the rules/pending rules implemented in this country in relation to the Patriot Act, the FCC, or the future of Social Security.

 

[SEmerson]

I am very much against any rights being taken away. But I also believe that the tree huger and environmentalist could put their energy to a better use. How about a house fire. Think of the pm there. Maybe they could become a volunteer fire fighter. How about gross polluter that are in the form of a old gasser. Maybe they could help the poor family out that can't afford to fix it. How about working on alt energy. Either with there education or labor. My problem is only with the fact that we are waisting time legislating our country to death. All that complain energy could be put to a better use. And if it was put in a positive direction there would be no bickering. :-{}

 

[SJRsCUMMINS]

SEmerson - we are on the same page. I completely agree there is waaaaay too much legislation and regulation in this country. I also believe, however, that some regulation is necessary to prevent corporations and persons from running too roughshod over things that cannot protect themself. One of the things you speak about like house fires are involuntary acts. Other things like old cars that smoke are voluntary acts - regulation is in place to prevent that and it is the responsibility of every person to ensure their compliance is adhered too... . we can't just depend on our government to police every little action..... its one of the reasons our government has gotten too big... . and its one of the reasons people should think twice before removing their cats or making more smoke... . they are just creating more problems in the form of increased government regulation and environmental hazards.

 

[wxman]

First of all, I agree that we should do everything practicable to clean the ambient air, and I'm not defending smoking diesels. My '03 HO is stock as far as the engine goes. My point is that just because you can't see "smoke" doesn't mean there aren't particles there. And I really don't feel any better following a gasser (even a new one) down an interstate than I do a smoking diesel.



I'm not making these comments off-the-cuff or out of "ignorance". I have a graduate degree in atmospheric chemistry and I have worked in the environmental field as an atmospheric scientist for over 20 years. I can assure you that I am every much an "environmentalist" as anyone in the Sierra Club, and my career choice reflects that. I have a strong interest in air emissions, both stationary and mobile. But I do not endorse the anti-diesel agenda that the Sierra Club and other "environmental" groups have put forth.



I also do not believe that the current method of regulating PM by mass alone is appropriate based on many studies over the past 10 years or so (some of which I mentioned in my previous post). Some consideration to PM number and size distribution needs to be implemented in the regs (the "nanoparticles" from gassers have virtually no mass).



Everyone seems to wring their hands over "dirty" smoking diesels, yet turns a blind eye on the scientific evidence that gassers are big PM producers. An empirical study in the late 1990s, called the "North Front Range Air Quality Study", found that over 70% of the ambient PM2. 5 came from light-duty gasoline vehicles (2. 5 to 3 times as much as from diesel vehicles). This is the inverse of what was prediced by models. Why hasn't the Sierra Club jumped all over that?

 

[SJRsCUMMINS]

WXMAN - I absolutely agree with you that gassers produce bad PM just like diesels. Diesel vehicles play an important role in the overall transportation of people, raw materials, and goods. The Sierra Club is just off the charts in their expectations. However, I read every post on this bulletin, and several others on the overall TDR site, and I was aiming my criticism at those who feel it is their god given right to do whatever they want with their vehicles in the face of the overwhelming data that show the regulation of them is justified and warranted. Although diesel pollution is a partial contributor to the overall environmental problem, it is an important contributor whose effects should be curbed by those who use it..... before our government has to step in!

 

[EBottema]

If the goverment is going to charge me to register my vehicle, pay Almost 50 cents in taxes at the pump, and then some more payroll taxes... I am sure going to do whatever I please with my truck. I pay for it and nobody cares. I'm sure many will agree















Erik

 

[Rebel_Horseman]

AMEN Erik! My truck and what I do with it is my own business. If you have an opinion you're welcome to voice it but I can promise that I will continue to do as I see fit. The same goes for crooked Uncle Sam and the tree huggers. Personally I aim for them when I'm driving, and I take pleasure in making them upset at my smoky diesel. It proves that they have absolutely no clue what they are complaining about.

 

[DJW]

Of Smoke and Sound, many places have now banned Motorcycles from their streets, that goes for the quiet ones too, so all motor cyclists suffer from the Pure Ignorance of a Few, the ones who never had anyone take notice of them as a Child, so now they believe they can show them a thing or two, I believe it's called an Inferiority Complex, however I believe they are just an Inferior Species, just Inferior. There are may people who would like to ban all Motorcycles and private use Diesels, I'm sure you are well informed and aware of that fact, add Smoke and you have double trouble. I've seen plenty of roadside signs reading "Use of Jake Brake Prohibited, $500 Fine" For whatever reasons, the Public Decides, it's called a Democracy, ever heard of it? Why in Hell do we all have to drive on the right side of road? "I'll drive on anyside of the road I darn well please!" The majority of a society sets the rules, called the survival of the Species. Hopefully you will not witness a child struggling to breath, a victim of asthma now claimed to have increased over 6% in the last number of years owing to air polution. Think about it. Scrum Down

 

[DSullivan]

not such a friendly topic

I have found a solution

put a ten second timer on your A piller

 

[EBottema]

Sullivan--LOL Where can i get one of those 10 second timers?



Well to the moderator, Yes i totally agree with you, but the problem is nobody has common sense anymore. Just same thing with gun laws. They dont work, its proven, bad guys dont follow laws so why should we hurt the general public. It's mainly the fault of politicians and special interest groups that lie to the public. The majority of the public doesnt have a clue about anything --again, no common sense, and we are at the point where laws that are stupid get passed. The last great politician was Strom Therman and now a days it a bunch of lying scam artists. Not to offend anyone but this country went to hell in 1965. Civil rights act and new gun control measure. Thats when this whole political correctness junk started



just my . 02 cents. I may not be right but its my opinion, respect that and i will respect yours



erik

 

[DSullivan]

if you look at where the gun laws is the most restrictive like Wash D. C. the murder capital of the US the crime is highest



If you out law guns Only outlaws will have them

think the criminals care about the laws



John Stocile the reporter talked to some inmates the told him that they did not care about the cops they new they had guns they were concerned about The Armed Citizen.



GOD BLESS AMERICA

and the freedom to bear arms

 

[J&LRam]

What a bunch of crap you smokers are puttin' out. None of you have any kind of rights to smoke people just because you want to. Clean air laws are here to protect Americans now and more importantly in the future. Cummins and other diesel engine makers are doing a good job of making cleaner burning diesels . If you want to smoke someone run your tailpipe in your window..... JIM

 

[Chipstien]

Originally posted by TCSF

Before smoking someone it might be worth considering that in some places in this country one out of three motorists is packing a firearm in their vehicle.

If anyone was stupid enough to pull a gun on me while driving then he would find out first hand how hard it is to keep 7500 pounds from forcing you into the ditch. I love my truck but in that case I wouldn't hesitant to run his @ss off the road. What could he do..... I would claim that I felt my life was in danger.

 

[DKarvwnaris]

I am not one to support the smoke out side of this post, BUT!!

Until we take ahold of Mexico and force them to the same standards we are putting on our own people, the environmentissue is a joke here. We had to comply with the new laws on paint booths a few years back. Guess who was buying all our "outlawed booths and non HVLP guns? Paint shops in Tijuana Mexico. Have you ever had to fill up on that filthy crap they call fuel? It smokes more than high sulfer off road diesel.

To any all environmentalists who dislike diesels, guess what, it takes less to refine Diesel than GAS! Diesels have a longer life which lowers the manufacturing waste to produce another "economy car" You stupic over educated idiots!! Wake up and look at the overall picture. GAS or DIESEL, the stuff all stinks, it all pollutes and you are looked at as a joke in my eyes. I used to support many environmental groups until it was the "in" thing to do. Now, I feel safer trusting felons with my wife and kids future. Why is it that there is this compelling need to push ones views on everyone else lately? Don't we get that enough in the media? To those smoking out other motorists, show some respect, its a good way to get followed to your destination and come back to a set of flat tires or keyed paintjob.

To those complaining about it, back off their bumper and pick another lane. You were probably following too damn close!!