Convert 3-pin connector to 6-pin?

[rbattelle]

I looked throught my entire 2003 powertrain diagnostics manual last night (a large task!) and nowhere in it do they ever mention using the 3-pin engine datalink connector for anything. The only place the datalink connector is mentioned is in the connector pinout diagrams and the schematic for the CM845. My point is, there is no condition where that 3-pin connector is used by any Dodge service tool.



Next step is to find out for sure whether we've got J1939 communications via that port.

 

[Diesel Freak]

I just realized that you are dealing with a 2003 truck and not a pre 2003 truck... ... . I do not think the 2003's use J1939 like the VP44 equipped trucks.



Sorry if I sent you on a wild goose chase.

 

[rbattelle]

No, actually according to the CM845 (ECM) schematic in the powertrain diagnostics manual, there IS a J1939 output!

 

[nickleinonen]

i wrote cummins to see what kind of responce i was going to get from them. here is the responce...

Summary: roadrelay 4 on a 2004 dodge ram pickup truck with cummins diesel engine?



Solution:



Thanks for your Email message.



It sounds like you are getting the right story. We have no service tools that will talk to the 03 and 04 Dodge trucks. If you get any tool that will talk to the 03 and 04 trucks it will have to come through Dodge or some other company. We have no plans to change that at this time. Sorry



**************************************************

Details:

I have a 2004 dodge ram pickup truck on order and expect to take delivery of it in the next few weeks... now, I am an absolute geek when it comes to monitoring my engine parameters, and I just found out about the roadrelay 4. having that would save me from having extra analog gauges sitting up on my dash [turbo boost pressure & engine exhaust temperature will still sit up there as analog gauges] I am interested in getting this road relay 4 for my truck when I get it, and I am just writing to see if the 2004 engine ecm is compatible with the road relay? I am a member of the turbodieselregister and I have read on their discussion forums that the 2003 model year engine ecm is not compatible with the roadrelay 4. has that been corrected for the 2004 year, or am I out of luck when it comes to the road relay?



thanks,

nick

 

[rbattelle]

I'm still not giving up yet!

 

[nickleinonen]

i don't want you to give up either



that rr4 is cool. what i wanted to do to my truck for gauges when i get it is to have boost/pyro dash mounted in individual cups in the 2 5/8" size, then have a pair of spa pressure/temp in the steering collum monunt to moniter eng water temp, oil temp, oil press, fuel press... i like the spa idea, but i don't like the lcd display on them. if it was led type display [like the dakota digital] i would love them, but if the rr4 can be made to work, have that to moniter the oil temp/press and the eng water temp, then get a dakota digital fuel press gauge and put it where the cigar lighter plug is [and relocate that to the passenger side plate where the air bag switch is on the reg cabs]

 

[rbattelle]

Nick,



Unfortunately with the '03 and up trucks there is no oil pressure sending unit (just a switch that comes on between 6 psi and 75 psi) and no oil temperature sender.

 

[jdiebold]

I found another company that makes a device much like the RR4. I sent an e-mail but have not received a response. Here is their web address: Sliver Leaf Electronics



They seem to make monitors for high end coaches with diesels.

Thought you might like to check them out.



JD

 

[nickleinonen]

Originally posted by rbattelle

Nick,



Unfortunately with the '03 and up trucks there is no oil pressure sending unit (just a switch that comes on between 6 psi and 75 psi) and no oil temperature sender.

oh... well, that sucks don't it...



well, i had been searching for this kind of stuff a few weeks before this thread popped up, and i came across this stuff after i read about the HKS c. a. m. p. system in a sport compact magazine...



this one shows some promise... .



CANtrak



big picture of their product [it is 1352x866 pixles so i won't (img)(/img) tag it for slower net connection folks]

 

[rbattelle]

Nick,



Wow! Good catch! Never saw that one before. I really like it. Unfortunately they're in the UK. I can't determine whether they sell to the US.

 

[nickleinonen]

from CANtrak website:



A highly decentralised company with an entrepreneurial spirit, Teleflex employs more than 16,000 people in over 80 operating units worldwide. About 40% of revenues are from outside the United States. Teleflex common stock is listed on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol TFX.

if 40% revenue is outside the usa, their stuff has to be avalable in north america...



[that's just using my simple fuzzy sleep deprived logic]

 

[rbattelle]

This looks bad

After several back-and-forths between me and Cummins, here's what the Powermaster was finally able to find out from the software guys:



"All J1939 broadcast messages have been turned off since MY03, maybe sooner.

I know some folks were looking at a version of QuickCheck for the 2003

Ram, but don't know status of that or if the work is ongoing. "







I asked them if it might be possible to turn J1939 back on. I'll post when I find out.

 

[GWDiesel]

Super Chip cable

Here is A shot in the dark, In Speedway Illustrated mag. Dec. 03

issue,page,98 there is an article about the new hand held unit

they sell(Super Chips)and the photo shows 3 units,and the plugs

look like 3 pin plugs,on the ends of the adapter cables that plug

into the hand held unit's,They are very vogue about the Dodge

unit,but if it fits the 03, Just maybe,maybe the adapter cable is

your 3to6 pin adapter! I hope. GWD

 

[GWDiesel]

#%&*@** Spell check

That is Vague,not vogue,dam it

 

[jdiebold]

This should clear up the vogue, I mean vague info on the Super Chip for the '03.



Super Chips



It seems it is only for the '03 gasers and Cummins pre '03.



JD

 

[rbattelle]

Well, if they were able to "turn off" J1939 communications, perhaps there is a way to switch them back on.

 

[GWDiesel]

Super Chip no 03 dDiesel

MR: jdiebold, thanks for the info. That is what I get for shooting

in the vouge- I mean Dark, No CTD chip info. cross them off the

Good guy list! GWD

 

[rbattelle]

So I asked the powermaster if there was any way to turn J1939 communications back on. His answer was (direct quote): "Nope".



I've got a Quickcheck II on it's way to me (thanks Ben). I will be experimenting with that.

 

[AndyMan]

Re: This looks bad

Originally posted by rbattelle

After several back-and-forths between me and Cummins, "All J1939 broadcast messages have been turned off since MY03,

As a Microsoft "engineer", working with enterprise server communication, that quote struck a chord. I'm gonna throw this out. Prob wrong, but hey...



Unfortunately, I can't speak for this protocol, but I do know that with routable protocols like TCP/IP (in the internet world), broadcast traffic only comes into play when two devices are trying to find one another and don't know the actual respective addresses. If that holds true with j1939, and you could determine the "address" of the device you're trying to communicate with, you should be able to access it. It sounds to me like they aren't blocking the traffic, but rather have blocked devices "announcing" themselves on the j1939 network. To do that, each device must have a static route predefined to each other device that it needs to communicate.



I'm afraid I'm comparing apples or oranges... but who knows, maybe it'll help out.



Forge ahead! Good luck with this project.

/Andy

 

[rbattelle]

Update

Just a quick update on the research. Many thanks to TDR member Ben Stair, who was kind enough to send me his Quickcheck II for testing on my truck. Alas, I was unable to make it work.



I asked DC via email about the J1939 connector, and they replied "ask your dealership". So I went to the dealer and spoke with the service manager. I found him very knowledgeable (although he did claim that pilot injection active only under load... not at idle... I think that's false). Anyways, I had a long conversation with him about CAN bus and J1939 and vehicle networks and what-not. He informed me that DC is not even allowing their dealers access to the complete vehicle network, because they are trying to prevent people screwing with the fuel curves and timing and what-not. I completely understand why!



It appears that it will NOT be possible to communicate with the ECM via that connector, unless some time down the road DC releases the addressing and coding necessary to do so.



Finally, I have reached what appears to be a dead end. DC, if you're reading this: please give us read-access to the ECM via the J1939 port. Please? We promise to be good!:{