Cops...do we need to make changes?

[exfuzz01]

cops

Very interesting topic today.



I have an idea that some of the responders here could take advantage of, which may change their minds regarding police officers and the job they do day in and day out.



Most larger municpalities have citizen academies which usualy last about 10 weeks, 3 hrs a week. Here they learn the different aspects of police work and what the different divisions do. Most of the attendies usually go on ride alongs with officers and also spend some time on the range shooting.



As a retired officer (27 yrs experience) in the Pacific Northwest, I have seen just about everything and done everything related to the job. After some of my friends went to the citizen academy they had a totally different view of the occupation I was involved in. Some of the people here may actually learn something !!



In my experience, you deal with people relative to how they respond to you. There are some people out there in this world that you can not be nice to under any circumstances. Thus the term. . "ADAM HENRY" and as to traffic violators, most of them are called "HUA" drivers. . (Head Up Ass)



Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[98rammer]

not to change the subject a little (or start another war!!), but what about straight pipe? i got pulled over for it. as much as i absolutely loved the sound, it was illegal. i always took it easy around people, but still... i was very nice to the officer, but he still gave me a horrible attitude. he was in the right that i needed a muffler. i'm not a rebel, but i've always loved vehicles. oh well, i'm just a person.

 

[ddesau]

Rookie

Originally posted by Briar Hopper

It's not the cops. It's the system. Too many laws, and bad laws. Just as the other guys said above. I live in a heavily policed state. So much so, even my trooper friend has remarked on it several times to me. He detests the system as much as I do. Yet he'll pull me over if he catches me speeding. And he knows I'll recognize he has every right to do so.

It's hard to swim upstream to get stupid, unfavorable laws changed. BUT... ...

The rookies are the worst. Had a rookie trooper pull my boy over, he was driving my 2001 instead of his '94. I keep my insurance card in my wallet, none in the truck, kid didn't know that. (traffic busts in KY, y'all better have registration & proof of insurance handy) He opened the glove compartment , rookie wigs out when he sees my Wilson Combat . 45 ACP in there, draws iron on my kid, finger on the trigger and all that. The worst of it all, is it's the law I have to carry it in there, it can't be under the seat or elsewhere. Kid gets handcuffed, rookie calls in local reinforcements, they ALMOST searched my truck... ALMOST. Too bad they didn't, I'd have had grounds for a nice lawsuit. Rookie was carrying on, acting silly, doing the fainting act at seeing the Winchester Black Talons I keep it loaded with. Stupid, silly S. O. B.

That's the problem with the ones fresh out of the academy, they've been propagandized heavily, it takes a few years for reality and the influence of older, wiser troopers to take effect.

Since you've never been in that Rookie's shoes- how would you expect him to react? Does he know you son on sight? probably not - Does he know what your son would do ? Obviously not- With the number of police officers killed each year - (on the average 100+), then the Rookie as you call him reacted correctly- he is after all not stupid and doesn't want to be shot by some kid- The rookie acted as he was trained to do - and had every right to take the action he did - until he determined that your son was not a threat - As for your lawsuit - sorry Bub - but search incident to arrest is a lawful search in most states. . Trade places with that rookie for a moment - he stops a kid (age?) who he doesn't know and who opens a glovebox to see a weapon inside - he expects the worst and reacts as he was trained to do -



Unless you've been there - don't be so quick to call that rookie -stupid -



How do I know this - because I am a retired Police Officer (26 years) and I didn't get to retirement by being stupid or failing to react to a potential dangerous situation. Next time - you should probably take your 45 out of the glovebox before you loan your vehicle -

 

[Rob Thomas]

mimprevento,



you said" I have had several cases where deaths were caused because trucking companies cut corners and ICC bars were not replaced"



So let me get this straight, the truck company is at fault because someone ran into the rear of they're truck? And the deaths were caused by the "truck"? It wouldn't have been caused by the person who ran into it, would it?



Accidents are caused by people not paying attention, (for the most part) not by faulty bumpers. Speeding, does not CAUSE accedents, people NOT PAYING ATTENTION DOES! If your not passing, and your in the passing lane, move over to the other lane. If people would pay attention there would be almsot no accidents. Agreed a higher speed accident will be more serious, pay attention and you wont have to worry about the accident in the first place.



You seem to have a thing against trucks, two posts of bashing them, and one post you called them "morons", do you really belive that ALL truck drivers are to blame? Take your blinders off, man. You also said that the cops stop speeders and are vigilant to insure safe trucks are on the road, what about safe drivers of cars? How do the insure that? They dont, however they need to, and I dont mean by givin them a speeding ticket, cause as I said before, speeding is not the problem, you dont need statistics to see it either.



I also said before, that I have complained about speeding in residential areas where I work, to NO AVAIL, no additional patrol seen and people continue to haul-arse in a 25 mph zone. They just bust people on the e-way, where there are no kids, or schools, stop signs, or stop lights. Again just common sense is all it takes. Maybee the cops need to use they're better judgement instead of the rule book.



Later, Rob

 

[ddesau]

Hmmm

Originally posted by Steve M

When I was 14, I was accused of breaking into an ugly lime green house. Took a lie detector test and failed as did my friend. After my parents laid out several hundred dollars in lawyer fees, the kid that lived at the house admitted he broke into his own house because he lost his house key. He pointed the finger at us so he wouldn't get into trouble for breaking his own window. The detective was later let go after he arrested a couple of girl scouts for trespassing on his property. They were selling cookies.

When I was 17, we used to get our good weed from a sheriff's deputy three houses down from ours. I never knew his name. We just knew him as Teco. He never caused us any problems. Just an unusual source for shrubbery. He was very clean cut and I'm sure it put on a good show for the oldsters seeing the local teenagers befriending the nice deputy.

When I was 23, I was pulled over by a deputy for doing 55mph in a 45mph zone. I was riding a black chopper so backup was needed for the safety of the officer. Four more cruisers showed up with two deputies in each. My ex wife wouldn't shut her mouth and when the deputy went to handcuff her and set her in his car so he wouldn't have to listen to her mouth, she hit him with her fist. By that time there were eleven deputies there. They attacked me with there nightsticks and knocked me out cold. I started to come to and one of them cracked my ankles with his club. These guys were scared of one man with his wife on a black chopper so they had to make their own gang to handle the situation. I spent the night in jail. It was dangerous though. One of them got hit by a girl. :{

When I was 26, my three year old daughter was having a birthday party at a local public park. I waited for my mom to show up from out of town so I could lead her to the park and find the party. The park is 2. 5 miles of winding road with picnic areas all over. I entered the park on my Harley. With bicyclists passing me by and the heat scorching my head, I committed a heinous crime. I remove my helmet as I putted at jogging speed through the park looking for my daughter's party. The deputy exploded into lights and siren. He called for backup just in case I decided to pull a fast one on him with a kazoo or something. He detained me for a full 45 minutes for a helmet ticket. What an A/H. My mom went on to find the party and explain to the kids that the cops were keeping daddy from the party.

Then when I was 30, I got pulled over at the corner by my house for not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign for a right hand turn. He cried that a complete stop means putting both feet down. I can come to a complete stop on my Harley without putting my feet down for a couple of seconds. My right foot is on the brake and my left foot is shifting back to first gear. He was just being an A/H. Just to prove he was an A/H, he ran the stop sign at the next corner after he finished harassing me.

So no, I don't have much respect for cops, pigs, whatever you want to call them. The ultimate in big brother mentality. Control freaks with a gun and a badge. The bullies from grade school that never grew up, just got bigger. What a shame that these cops give the few good cops a bad reputation with the general public.

I GUESS MY ONLY RESPONSE TO THIS LOAD OF *#$@ IS:



JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE ONE - DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO ACT LIKE ONE !

 

[Steve M]

Typical cop response. Speak for yourself. It's all true. But of course the code of silence is such that one cop would never admit to the misconduct of another.

 

[BigUgly]

Steve, I'm sorry.

I always try to imagine how the world looks through someone else's eyes before I pass judgment on them in my mind. But I can't in this case, I just can't figure how you can see things this way.

I am not a LEO. I do know severial and consider a couple of them my friends. Are they real people? Heck yeah! Are there some LEOs who misuse their power, I bet so! Do I feel they need to "Earn" my respect like some have said? Yup!, but then all of them have. These folks choose to lay their lives on the line to protect all of us, and what are the thanks they get? Low pay and folks circling them like Vultures with minicams.

Heck, I almost got so riled up there that I said a few dirty words. How unfortunate.

To the folks complaining about too much traffic policing... I'm glad the police agancies are so harsh, heck, I'm out there with all the serious speeders, red-light-runners and some pretty inattentive drivers. These traffics tickets help keep us safe.

Now for a few stories.....

"Gather 'round folks, uncle Sparky is gonna tell ya'll some stories... "

A the son of a family friend and I were sitting around talking some time back. He complained that the cops around here had it out for him. I asked him to explain himself. He pointed out that, since he was a teenager that drove a lowered tricked-out Honda, the cops kept ticketing him for speeding. It turns out that he was ticketed 3 times in a year. Upon questioning, he admitted to be doing at-least 10 mph over the limit on the tickets from residential roads and about 20 over in the 4 Lane Highway. I informed him that he WAS being pulled over due to stereotyping... as a Speeder!

The second story is sad. Early this year, two of our local LEOs were responding to a domestic disturbance and were both shot dead. Unfortunatly, one of them was the younger Brother of the retired Officer who taught me how to shoot and helps run the local gun range. It was truly a sad time.

I agree that judicial system does need some serious reform. "Those who are found guilty should swing quickly... "

But what the heck do I know? I'm only 24 and have never been pulled over.

Josiah

 

[Champane Flight]

Both

I have seen good and bad cops in my day. I have had bad cops beat the he11 out of me for next to no reason, except they were off duty and felt like it. I have had good cops let me go with a warning or one time on my own recognizance after a car chase. In most cases I see attitudes carried by local yokels (city cops, town Marshall's, or county mounties). Our state patrols in most cases are pretty professional and it takes a lot to rile em. I have not had the pleasure of meeting many FBI, but my only association with them was very professional.

 

[mimprevento]

Trucks

In my case the idiot truck driver pulled out in front of a mother of an 11 year old child- witnesses said she didn't have anywhere to go. The driver lied about what happened. She would have survived due to the belt she was wearing and the air bag. But he didn't have an ICC bar- the manufacturer of the bar as well as our experts said that if the bar had been on she wouldn't have gotten the trucks frame through her skull bashing her brains all over the dash. The owner of the company testified that it fell off and he didn't put it back on- it had been off for nine months- other drivers testified that he cut corners to save $$ and the truck was cited for several violations. An alert cop with some motor carrier training saw the ICC violation and wrote the truck up- we took it from there and put the ******* out of business. Motor carrier units of local police forces here aggressively enforce equipment laws because of cases like this. We just saw the family of a young wife and mother who got a piece of lumber through her skull because some lazy ******* didn't know how to secure a load. He stopped- the lumber kept going and went through her windshield. Our roads are littered with retread debris. Any trucker stopped for similar violations including speeding deserves it just like any citizen who breaks the law.

 

[Champane Flight]

Probably

I have the opinion that ANY auto accident is avoidable, period. You should never be in a position to have even a close call. If you do it is your fault. You or an eye witness says "She had no place to go"? It takes an eighteen wheeler or any other truck a long time to turn into traffic, she was probably slapping at the kid in the back seat and doing her makeup.



The trucker in this case did not have a drop bumper? Yes, this is a violation, but do you refuse to drive a truck because of a bumper? If you do, you can be sure not to have a job right after. I have taken this sort of violation directly to my local State fuss for a write up and stayed anonymos by request. But, a new young driver who is eager to please would have to learn how to do this.



Tieing down a load properly is an art, and even when done properly is NO garrantee that you don't loose something in route, because of bad roads, weather, settling, or even emergency evasive manuvers. These rigs carry 98% of Americas needs and pay 98% of all road taxes. Go ahead and ban them, then you and others can wipe your #@$%s with corn cobs and peddle bikes to the local grocery, which will be empty!



There are some rigs out there that deserve to be put out of buisness, but there are many more just trying to make a living and getting hassled on every turn.

 

[The patriot]

Originally posted by BNH4221

The irony certainly wasn't lost on me that this thread started what, 3 spots below the Patriots one about his home being broken into. Who did he call first? The cops.

Actually, I went through the house with my 357 first while the wife made the call. This had just happened, and I thought the perp might still be there.

She was so F%&^'ed up at what had just happened that she wasnt up to the task, so I called while checking rooms.

Yes, they were the first # I called, but they admit themselves that "It's a low priority thing" and "there aint much we could do".

They said they'd take prints on Monday, but in their own words "Even if we get a match, we can only question them. If they dont confess, there aint much we could do".

I'm not saying this to slam any LEO's, I know theyre not my personal protection, just that it would be nice if our Govt would let us protect ourselves.

If I shot the SOB (and if he/she was there, I would have)

#1, I'd probibally be going to jail.

#2 His (or her) family would actually be able to sue me!!!!

What the *F* is wrong with this country?

There are some bad cops (just like every other profession) but being a high profile job, and the fact that theyre supposed to be the pinnacle of integrity, they get beaucoup exposure.

JM . 02

Eric

 

[Briar Hopper]

ddesau, you make some valid points. However, there were other circumstances at play that I don't wish to go into detail about. Yes, the rookie may have acted properly, in your estimation , but he drew iron AFTER my son informed him there was a pistol in the glove compartment. The correct procedure, according to his superior officers, would have been to keep one hand on his firearm while ordering my son to get out of the vehicle, then have him stand where he could see him, while he removed and unloaded my firearm.

HE DREW AND POINTED A LOADED FIREARM AT MY KID AND ACTED IMPROPERLY IN DOING SO. He handcuffed my kid and put him in the back of his patrol car. He also carried on about the type of ammo used, in a way that indicated he was fresh. No intelligent, experienced LEO would call Black Talons "armor-piercing". They are anything but.

The REAL abdication of responsibility, however, started with ME. I forgot the gun was in there, and forgot to remove it. You are correct about that. That particular day was a busy and stressful time for our business. It won't happen again.

I know the laws on search & seizure. He had no reasonable grounds to search my vehicle, after finding no priors on my kid's record, and finding the firearm to be lawfully registered and carried in the one legal place of the vehicle.

 

[sdalton]

Steve M, What biker club do you belong to? You talk like you have a big beef against all law enforcement officers, and that you are just a law abiding biker who is always singled out, because of his bike. It would be a shame to waste all that pent up anger on people like us who dont all agree with you.

On your "STORY" about being pulled over with your ex-biker wife on back: You were pulled over with valid cause. Your wife should have been charged with "assaulting a police officer" I bet you were probably charged with that or "interfering" . You dont say what. I have found that to listen to the "STORY" of one who was "arrested for no reason at all", means that there was a pretty good explanation about what really happened by the arresting officers.

About being pulled over for not wearing a helmet: If the law was for you to wear a helmet, then dont Bit** about being pulled over for not wearing one. Being detained is a way for some police officers to say that "your own attitude during this traffic stop dictates how long it taked to write this ticket. "

On being 17 years old and buying weed: well let me see, He was stupid for selling it, he should have been arrested, but you probably thought he was the only good cop on this planet for selling it to you, too bad he was a criminal. You are a criminal for buying it, you just were not caught.



You lifes story reminds me of a movie. It starred Clint Eastwood and an Orangatang named Clide. There were two, one was "Any Which Way But Loose", I forget the other. But getting back to what your stories remind me of: the biker gang in those movies called the "BLACK WIDOWS. "

I think I will rent one of them tomorrow, so I can get closer to the true spirit of your posts. :-{}



All this is done in jest, and in no way reflects the attitudes and opinions of , oh what the heck, I meant every word I said.

 

[danandamy]

Dang! Five pages and I just now figured out that LEO wasn't your horoscope sign



dan

 

['956Wheel]

The bottom line is the "human factor". Train a man all you can, for as long as you want and on every scenerio possible. You will still have instinct as well as prejudice in one and all of our police officers.



I was driving home from a 12 hour swing shift, 2 am, and was pulled over for "speeding", it was summertime and I had a mosquito bite on my ankle. Upon being pulled over I reached to scratch a terrilbly itchy bite. . you guessed it I was nearly shot. My instinct to scratch a bug bite triggered the cops survival instinct. Were either of us wrong? Absolutely NOT! I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER happens! There was no citation issued and we parted company in a timely manner.



We are in a society of what I call LCD (Lowest Common Denominator), that is there is a time when each and every one of us will be treated as the worst possible criminal. Why? because of the "Human Factor". I think we all need to realize that the cops have to deal with the worst of the worst on a daily basis, yes they made that choice, but somebody must do the job. For the ones that obviously are out there strutting their stuff and abusing their authority, (IMO), we as their bosses must see that they are dealt with in the most just way that our system has to offer.



Yes the bug bite story is true and try your best to not call me a liar, we are a group of men here wishing to discuss any matters on our minds not to disrepect one another.



Mike

 

[Rob Thomas]

Re: Probably

Originally posted by Champane Flight

I have the opinion that ANY auto accident is avoidable, period. You should never be in a position to have even a close call. If you do it is your fault. You or an eye witness says "She had no place to go"? It takes an eighteen wheeler or any other truck a long time to turn into traffic, she was probably slapping at the kid in the back seat and doing her makeup.



The trucker in this case did not have a drop bumper? Yes, this is a violation, but do you refuse to drive a truck because of a bumper? If you do, you can be sure not to have a job right after. I have taken this sort of violation directly to my local State fuss for a write up and stayed anonymos by request. But, a new young driver who is eager to please would have to learn how to do this.



Tieing down a load properly is an art, and even when done properly is NO garrantee that you don't loose something in route, because of bad roads, weather, settling, or even emergency evasive manuvers. These rigs carry 98% of Americas needs and pay 98% of all road taxes. Go ahead and ban them, then you and others can wipe your #@$%s with corn cobs and peddle bikes to the local grocery, which will be empty!



There are some rigs out there that deserve to be put out of buisness, but there are many more just trying to make a living and getting hassled on every turn.

This needed to be seen again, good post CF. As for you Mimpervento, would you like everyone callin' you a "idiot" or "lazy *******"? Were triyin' to keep this civil, give it a whirl man, name calling is not very mature.



Later, Rob

 

[98rammer]

http://www.cascobayweekly.com/cbw/cover/cover05. 02. 02. stm



read that article. i do see some points like street racing, but i am on the side of the other kids in other cases. i have done my two lane red light racing before with just open road in front of us, but i haven't and wouldn't do street racing as they do. the store owners complained, so that is a problem, but the meetings are putting out a more positive attitude than selling drugs and all that other crap.



"O’Malley said Maine inspection standards have changed this year to reflect the growing popularity of modified cars. “It’s illegal to alter exhaust so that it is louder. Also, altering the height of the vehicle, especially through tire size, is illegal,” he said. "



this comes from a guy in my hometown of Scarborough from the article. so if i put a 4 inch exhaust system on, i could easily be pulled over and fined. the hieght? so going from 245/75s (if i remember right) to 285/75s are illegal? WHAT!?! we get pressured as it says. i understand officer's right to defend themselves, but most of them that i know are literally out there to ticket you in any way!

 

[sdalton]

956, I bet you were about as scared as the officer, after you scratched your ankle. Your lucky nothing happened. 2am is a crazy paranoid hour for the police. I bet you you dont scratch your ankles at traffic stops anymore.

 

[mimprevento]

Truck accident

The kid wasn't in the car and she wasn't putting on make-up- he broke the law by turning into the center lane and not into the farthest left lane and she couldn't avoid him- she died a horrible death but you want to blame her because that is your mindset- he was driving a straight truck with a roll on container and was too lazy to wait for traffic he didn't see her and pulled out with his truck that was in violation of several laws. He falsified his inspection sheet and his boss intentionally didn't replace the equipment because he didn't want to spend $250. 00- this act killed an young mother and you want to blame her- that makes my argument against many truckers who hate cops because they enforce safety laws and will not permit crap trucks on the road to kill us. Well run trucking companies with responsible drivers have nothing to fear. The truck that killed my clients mother was pulled over two weeks after the accident for STILL not having the bar- defend that

 

[Warpig]

Briar

Briar, Black Talons are illegal for civilians to carry (Fed Law). They are in fact armor piercing in the fact that they pierce (shred) body armor.

Now for Search and Seizure 101. The Supreme Court ruled that Police can search a motor vehicle that they legally stop for "Officer Safety". The search is limited for weapons only, and the entire passenger compartment along with the trunk can be searched for weapons. As far as your son being handcuffed and placed in the rear of the police cruiser, it is called Investigative Detention. The Officer detained your son so he could conduct his investigation safely. For all the Officer knew at the time, your son could of just robbed the local 7-11 or killed someone.

I've had some bad experiences with the Police also. I was driving on hwy A1-A in Melborne Beach Fla. I was traveling in a line of traffic, with cars in front and back of me. I passed a local cop who was sitting in a school parking lot. I noticed that he stretched his neck in order to see my out of state plates. He pulled out, and approx. 2 min later he stopped me. He was rude and unprofessional, even after I identified myself as a Police Officer. He let me go without giving me a ticket or explaining why he pulled me over. I asked him why he pulled me over and he said that it's best if I just leave. Do I have an Axe to grind with Law Enforcement? No, just with that Officer. Over the past 15 years I have worked with hundreds of great Police Officers, who I am proud to call my Brothers.



Tim W.