Archived crank seal install

[GAmes]

With a little patience and finesse (and the old seal) you can alter the depth of the seal. I'm currently trying something that was suggested on another forum. I have two seals installed in the cover, and yes they fit with no problem. This experiment is only about 20k miles old, but so far it is working.

 

[ArtVandalay]

With a little patience and finesse (and the old seal) you can alter the depth of the seal. I'm currently trying something that was suggested on another forum. I have two seals installed in the cover, and yes they fit with no problem. This experiment is only about 20k miles old, but so far it is working.

That's VERY interesting....Hopefully the fron cover will be off again this weekend and I can see what happened.

 

[MLee]

Art;
If thats what you are doing then take some precious measurements as to the seal location on the crank. would be interesting to note IF you did locate the seal in the exact spot, and the grove depth, And then if bad enough put on a sleeve, or back out the seal a few clicks and change the depth location.

Bob4x4 or GAmes would he have to degrease/clean the contact area to re-seal the seal again? would it work.

 

[GAmes]

I've never attempted to reuse a seal, but in theory, if it isn't damaged and is clean & dry it should hold. I'm thinking the seal was cut during the attempt to install it with the sleeve backward, or the seal lips were not positioned properly on the sleeve when he tried again. Here is what I do. I install the sleeve into the seal first, with the large end inboard. Because it is semi-clear, you can see if the lips are positioned correctly. Then position the cover and push the assembly onto the engine. I torque four or five bolts around the seal area, then pull the plastic sleeve out with a pair of channel locks. A person could torque all the bolts first if he wanted. As an FYI, Autozone carries a seal and gasket kit for about $36.

 

[mwilson]

I would not attempt to re-use the seal. I would have zero faith in it and a cloud of bad Ju-Ju will be hanging over it.

Beat it out of there, destroy it and chuck it in the trash barrel while chanting "I will get it right this time!"......I ALWAYS purchase two seals when planning a replacement no matter what...Trans axle seals, rear axle seals, output shaft seals, etc....You never know and one little boo boo means a redo.

On a Sunday 60 miles away from the parts source (which is closed on Sunday anyways..) it pays to have a second one at the ready.

 

[mwilson]

Gary's double seal idea sounds pretty damn crafty and is probably still cheaper than buying the Cummins seal / wear sleeve combo.

 

[ArtVandalay]

I've never attempted to reuse a seal, but in theory, if it isn't damaged and is clean & dry it should hold. I'm thinking the seal was cut during the attempt to install it with the sleeve backward, or the seal lips were not positioned properly on the sleeve when he tried again. Here is what I do. I install the sleeve into the seal first, with the large end inboard. Because it is semi-clear, you can see if the lips are positioned correctly. Then position the cover and push the assembly onto the engine. I torque four or five bolts around the seal area, then pull the plastic sleeve out with a pair of channel locks. A person could torque all the bolts first if he wanted. As an FYI, Autozone carries a seal and gasket kit for about $36.

After reading that I think I know what I may have done wrong...once I was able to get the seal over the crank snout I removed the plastic sleeve BEFORE installing any bolts. Is it possible that doing that may have caused damage?

I have a hard time believing that the plastic sleeve doesn't cause damage to the seal. The flared portion is pretty big...it seems like the seal stretching over it would cause a tear...

I will without question be using a new seal...a friend of mine that is a dodge mechanic is going to change it all for me for $150...I'm going to be right there with him to see how he does it.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Gary's double seal idea sounds pretty damn crafty and is probably still cheaper than buying the Cummins seal / wear sleeve combo.

Cummins seals come with a wear sleeve? I'm assuming that the wear sleeve is something that slides over the crank snout to provide a new sealing surface?

 

[mwilson]

A front seal with a wear sleeve is available as a kit from Cummins. It is a different part number seal made to work with the increased diameter of the included wear sleeve.

At your current mileage I can't imagine the crank surface is worn enough to require a wear sleeve.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Any thoughts on if me removing the installation sleeve before tightening any bolts down might potentially be the cause of my leak?

 

[GAmes]

Any thoughts on if me removing the installation sleeve before tightening any bolts down might potentially be the cause of my leak?

Either way it would only be speculation.

 

[MLee]

Art;
Is there any ruff edges on the seal guide, that might have got hold of the seal lip when it was removed? this was the last thing that would have made contact with that surface. Up on the initial install of the seal did you make any contact with the guide in this step? and make a ruff spot.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Either way it would only be speculation.

Yes I suppose that's true.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Art;
Is there any ruff edges on the seal guide, that might have got hold of the seal lip when it was removed? this was the last thing that would have made contact with that surface. Up on the initial install of the seal did you make any contact with the guide in this step? and make a ruff spot.

I wish I could say for certain. I don't recall any, but I never checked either. It looked ok from memory.

 

[MLee]

I wish I could say for certain. I don't recall any, but I never checked either. It looked ok from memory.

You still have the guide don't you? run your finger around the edges and check for smoothness, and maybe some inflicted damage from you install tool.

 

[ArtVandalay]

You still have the guide don't you? run your finger around the edges and check for smoothness, and maybe some inflicted damage from you install tool.

No I threw that out since after I initially started the truck it didn't show any signs of leaking.

Well my friend that was supposed to fix it flaked out on me. I am leaving for Florida for a week on Saturday...should I rent a car or is my truck safe to take? I leaks about a $1 bill sized spot of oil when parked over night and hasn't gotten any worse...

 

[GAmes]

That is a pretty good sized static leak. Does it drip while running? I'm sure it is safe to drive, but will really make a mess under the truck. Now that you have done it once the learning curve isn't that steep. Three hours should be about right.

 

[ArtVandalay]

I've cleaned it several times and watched it run for about 15-20 minutes and still can't quite tell where it's coming from. I'll drive it afterwards and check again and the front of the oil pan is wet. The drips are coming from several spots as the oil seeps down and collects on things like oil pan bolts or it gets on my steering stabilizer and drips from there...but it doesn't seem to have a solid drip while running that I can easily point to.

It had made my nice dry undercarriage wet now as oil has been flung and coated the steering gear/track bar and the passenger side frame rail.

 

[GAmes]

Back to the basics, you said you installed Genos kit. I didn't see a front seal "kit" with sealer or a gasket on their site. Did you use RTV? I know a lot of people do, but I have always used a gasket because I don't like having to pry something off that is glued to another piece when the job is due again. I have used parts from Cummins, but the last time I did it I used Felpro part #TCS46001 from AutoZone.

 

[Tim1]

I know that the seal is installed dry, but between the inside of the speedy sleave and the outside of the crank, I use blue locktite. That way oil cannot get between. May not be necessary, but I do it. Tim