Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Cummins response to dowel pin failure in 24 Valve trucks

[Pit Bull]

This is what I got back today from Cummins when I ask about KDP problem on the 24 valve engine. If you have seen a dowel pin come out of a 24 valve, I quess you need to send a picture to Cummins. They don't think it is possible



Summary: 59024 KDP Dowel pin, improved case question



Solution:



Thanks for your Email message.



You can't always believe what you read on various websites. The old gear cases will not work on 24 valve engines. The VP44 injection pumps will not bolt up for on thing. The dowel pins can not physically come out of 24 valve engines.



We thank you for your interest in Cummins products. Please let us know if you need assistance in locating the nearest Cummins-authorized Dealer or Distributor Service Provider. For assistance in locating a Service Provider, feel free to use Cummins North America Dealer Locator, which can be found on Cummins website:

http://www.cummins.com/service_locator/index.cfm



Please let us know if you have other questions and if away from your computer or have a time-critical request that needs more urgent attention, feel free to call us toll-free (from North America) at 1-800-DIESELS (343-7357). Customers may also call Cummins switchboard 1-812-377-5000 (worldwide toll call) and ask for the "800-DIESELS Call Center" for assistance.

 

[thouse]

I hope this is correct. I have a 99, with a build date of11-98. I am very concerned, but don't want to fix something that can't break.

 

[John Berger]

Huh?!?

You can't always believe everything you see on websites. No kidding, but a member saw this on a 24v engine. I repeat... Huh

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Somebody once wrote Dave Mitchell has a bunch of 24V gear cases at the shop that got broken because of the dowel pin coming out.

 

[Midnite]

One thing that is worth pointing out here is that us TDR folks make up all sorts of abbreviations that nobody outside the TDR will have a prayer of understanding (POD, PW, DD3, BHAF, KDP, and probably also TDR for that matter). We throw these abbreviations around here on the forums so often that they're second nature to us, but those on the outside won't have a clue what we're talking about. We need to keep this in mind when speaking or writing to people outside of the TDR.



I bring this up because "KDP" appears in the "Summary:" line in Cummins' reply. In this case the Cummins person knew the part being referenced was the dowel pin because those words were also included. However, if Pit Bull had asked them about "KDP problems on 24 valve engines" the people from Cummins would be scratching their heads going, "what the heck is a 'KDP'?!?"



Just my $. 02...



Mike

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by Midnite



I bring this up because "KDP" appears in the "Summary:" line in Cummins' reply. In this case the Cummins person knew the part being referenced was the dowel pin because those words were also included. However, if Pit Bull had asked them about "KDP problems on 24 valve engines" the people from Cummins would be scratching their heads going, "what the heck is a 'KDP'?!?"



Just my $. 02...



Mike

Mike I gave them all the information plus a link to the thread. They knew what I was asking. Now I don't know if the answer they gave is correct???

 

[radar doctor]

ABBREVIATIONS

I have heard the 99 were bad about this. on this TDR. I have a 99 with 60 K Miles. When is this suppose to happen?I see here that Cummins say's won't happen . I feel better Now . Does this mean if it does happen, I get to SUE somebody? Also I need some Help with These ABBREVIATIONS . Is there a place on here where we can look this stuff up? I do love reading the TDR . .

 

[Midnite]

Originally posted by Pit Bull

Mike I gave them all the information plus a link to the thread. They knew what I was asking. Now I don't know if the answer they gave is correct???

Oh, that was definitely clear to me--I just thought the abbreviation thing was worth pointing out.



I think the real thing to find out to put the 24V KDP issue to rest is to see if there are 24V cases out there that differ in the dowel pin area than the more recent cases. For example, if someone were to say "Hey--I have a case from a '99 truck and another from an '02, and the one from the '99 has a large hole that would allow the dowel pin to work its way out". This would tell us what we already suspect--that the update to the case to address the dowel pin problem happened NOT with the introduction of the 24V engine, but well AFTER Cummins started supplying Dodge with 24V engines.



Until that proof comes out (along with pictures and engine serial numbers probably), we'll keep getting the same stuff like this from Cummins.



Mike

 

[Midnite]

Re: ABBREVIATIONS

Originally posted by radar doctor

I have heard the 99 were bad about this. on this TDR. I have a 99 with 60 K Miles. When is this suppose to happen?I see here that Cummins say's won't happen . I feel better Now . Does this mean if it does happen, I get to SUE somebody?

Well, in your case it sounds like you still have a warranty (with Dodge though--not through Cummins!). But for those unfortunate people out of warranty who end up with a busted case, all they get is a nice pat on the head from Cummins and the reassuring words, "The dowel pins can not physically come out of 24 valve engines. " Nice, huh?

Also I need some Help with These ABBREVIATIONS . Is there a place on here where we can look this stuff up? I do love reading the TDR . .

I'm not sure if there is or not, but in my opinion that's a great idea!



Mike

 

[illflem]

Pitbull had better luck than I with a fast response. When I asked about the dowel pin problem in 12 valves a few years ago it took three weeks for them to reply--

"The percentage of failure is low and does not justify a recall. "

Fine if you're not one of the folks in that small percent.

 

[Ncostello]

Thats completely different than what I was told over the phone when I called Cummins on the phone on 12/24/02. I was put on hold for a while so the person could do some "research". He knew little on the subject so I believe his answer was unbiased. He told me the old cases were installed on ISB's until some time in 1999 and it was possible I could have one. The ONLY way to tell was to remove the front cover and look he said. I posted this in a thread called "ISB KDP and Service Manual Question" on 12/26/02.



In illflems post, I asked if the cases were cast then machined to accept either the VP or P-Pump. That would answer if an old case could be manufactured to the VP's bolt pattern. I also asked if you had a KDP failure in a 12V and had to buy a new case... would you get a case with a stepped hole?? It would obviously have to accept the P-Pump. My guess is the only difference in the cases is the pump bolt pattern indeed... but I have never compared them side by side so I am assuming.



And apparently... according to some known failures... dowel pins CAN physically come out of 24V engines. So my response to Cummins is "You cant always believe what you hear from various engine companies".



I'm ordering a TAB and taking my cover off. Its easy enough and I'm betting I dont have a stepped hole. This is the best truck I've ever owned and I personally won't let some small pin bust my case and bend my cam. I can think of many other things to spend $3000 on... like Diesel Fuel. October of 98' was just too early in my mind.

 

[Pit Bull]

I was amazed at the response I got from Cummins ( it would be nice to send them some pictures of a failed 24 Valve KDP). Based on the members that have had this problem and the fact that illflem recentily saw a failure and posted about it, if I had a 98 or 99 CTD I would have it modified so the KDP could not come out. I have a 2002 and feel that I don't need to worry about the KDP. I will spend my time worrying about my lift pump and my VP44.

 

[Chipstien]

Is there something wrong with the KDP fix. Seems if you have a 98 or 99 24 valve than you should tab it for piece of mind. Why would'nt you.

 

[MLee]

WHY THE HOLE

why do they make such a large hole in the case any way? they just need a peep hole to locate the pin. why not just weld it up if your are replacing the gear housing to hold it in place. guaranteed not to come out.

just my penny's worth.



Marv.

 

[GiesJ]

Chip -

I did the Jig fix last week and if I understand correctly (Illflem or somebody else correct me), if you do the jig fix you are looking at about an hour and the tab fix is a bit more time. The jig fix involves drilling and if you can't drill all the way in you have hit the hardened steel pin - that means the pin is working it's way out and you need to do the tab fix so you can pound it back in.

Get yourself on the KDP jig list for your region and spend literally 60 minutes from start to finish and you won't have to worry any more.

good luck...

jason

 

[ctdodgeram]

Being a 98. 5 owner with 110k miles, this caught my eye.



What is the KDP jig fix list?

 

[GiesJ]

Originally posted by ctdodgeram

Being a 98. 5 owner with 110k miles, this caught my eye.



What is the KDP jig fix list?

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=35685

 

[FourBarR]

kdp

just back from piers in vancouver. had them do the jig fix on the dowel . my truck is an early 98. 5 with 239000 kms. as far as we could tell the dowel had not moved. cost 275. 00 cdn. which includes 34. 95 in taxes. piers quoted 150. 00 plus taxes. :--)

 

[monkfarm]

anyone know for sure???!!

Man oh man. I guess I'm going to do the tab fix. I wish we could get the straight dope on this. I have a 99 that was made 10/98.

Didn't illfrem have the neighbor whose 24 valve screwed up a couple of weeks ago?? (I just got back from being out of state with my dodge worrying about the little dowel that could come loose any minute now) . If I stayed around the house, I wouldn't worry, but I go all over with the cummins (just got myself the 54 gal tank. )

 

[RJ2]

In Daytona Beach , Southeast Power (Cummins dealer)

did the tab fix and locktite on all the accessable bolts in gearcase, which is common for them to be loose . With the price of the new seal included I think it was around $250. I supplied the tab. They had seen only one KDP at that time. 6/15/01 .

I moved over to Tampa and sure miss that shop.