Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) DC won't warrenty 6spd w/ fastcoolers.

[Turboman]

A friends transmission was giving some trouble. The dealer said no problem, will get a new one, even move the fastcoolers for him. He called later and said DC rep wouldn't cover it due to the "modification" to the transmission! I can't see that the fastcoolers can be anything but good. Anyway he's fighting it out with them.

 

[SRadke]

Did he replace the lube with something that is DC approoved?



-Scott

 

[tbrudder]

IANAL, but it should be an easy legal settlement, if it comes to that. The Magnuson-Moss Act states that they have to prove that the aftermarket part caused the damage to deny a warranty claim. This applies to the 'you chipped your engine for more power, that's why your lift pump failed' kinda stuff, but most people just give up and pay out of pocket.



The law is on your side--if they can't prove it, it's their problem. I can't see how added lubrication could possibly lead to a failure, unless it's from adding the wrong kind of lube, like previous poster said. Even then, they'd have to prove that the engine died because the lube wasn't up to spec.



Small claims court?



--Ty

 

[Oil Burner]

Good luck to your friend but it sounds like an uphill battle. He did modify the transmission and although it was for the better, it is still out of factory condition. A change in the type of lube will definately void the warranty. The problem with the law is that D/C has a lot deeper pocket to chase this through court. Good luck.

if they can't prove it, it's their problem

I agree that this is the law, however, it is your problem because your transmission is broken and they don't want to fix it. So it is up to you to "force" them to do it legally. That burden still lies on your back, not thiers. I just don't see how pointing to the M/M Act is going to change thier minds.



You may end up with a good sevice manager or regional guy who will o. k. the exchange. But if they dig thier heels in I just don't see your friend winning this one.



Just my $. 02



-Jason

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

JEEZE, I guess this fantasy "Hit 'em over the head with MM, and FORCE them to do your bidding" will end about the same time we stamp out the "Ford owns Cummins" bit... :rolleyes



The diehard MM "faithful" will simply never learn that the major manufacturers like DC, Ford and GM have LOTS more lawyers than WE can afford, and unless an owner is very determined, has LOTS of money, and doesn't really need his truck for a few years while his MM case goes to court, he had just as well PAY for the repairs, and get on with his life!



It has been true, IS true, and always WILL be true - make mods, even mods YOU think "improve" the product, and you may well have flushed yer "warranty" down the toilet!



This isn't a case of what's "right" - it's simply a case of "that's the way it is!"

 

[jponder]

OTOH, it doesnt make much sense for DC to fight those cases. The key is to somehow get the ball back in their court. It would be interesting to see how they would react to being sued for some low amount like 2 or 3K. I cant imagine they would try to defend a small suit like that. You just need to get it filed and represent yourself, even if you lost you wouldnt have much out of pocket. I bet DC would be worried about media also.



I think DC would cave almost immediately once a suit was filed, they arent going to want to have their $250 an hour lawyer work to defend it. It would be interesting to see what they would do.





Has any filed a suit?

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by jponder

I think DC would cave almost immediately once a suit was filed, they arent going to want to have their $250 an hour lawyer work to defend it.

That lawyer is sunk cost - his time won't be a major consideration. DC will likely be more worried about establishing precedent by caving in than the money itself.



Rusty

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"That lawyer is sunk cost - his time won't be a major consideration. DC will likely be more worried about establishing precedent by caving in than the money itself. "



EXACTLY!



Their lawyers are already hired, salaried and on staff - their every day job is handling legal issues, from the two-bit mundane to the high $$$ complex...



Us peasants don't really have much chance - with or without that "mighty and fearsome MM"...

 

[jponder]

I know what you are saying..... Tobacco companies fought lawsuits to the bitter end, they knew once they lost one the flood gates would open, but in this sit I think its different. We could guess all we want but I think they would cave in a small suit like that, There is only one way to find out!



Lets get 20 of us or so to kick up 10$ and get him to file a suit and see what they would do. I think their legal manager would read it, decide the guy was right and would probably win and settle it.



Lets help the guy out plus have a little test

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Sorry - I've got too many other $10 "lost causes" needing my support - don't need another one!

 

[TomGolden]

Repeat after me - "I am my own warranty station"...



Best of luck to your friend, though.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Try a different dealer, PM me.

 

[tbrudder]

As far as M/M goes--yes, you're right of course. D/C has lots of lawyers. Lawyers are expensive. And for years, people have yelled, "You'll be hearing from my lawyer!", and never following through, because it's too much work--so the OEM laughs when they hear it. I'm not quite so naive as to believe D/C will say, "Okay! We give! Please don't sue us!". Not quite.



Anyway. I'm not suggesting actually getting a lawyer and filing a civil claim--you'd lose more money than you made back, in all likelihood! No. Most states, if the suit is for under a few thousand dollars, you go through small claims court. Don't need a lawyer. The other guy can have one if he wants, in some places. No jury, either.



Again, I'm no lawyer, but I'd think if you explained something as clean cut as this to a judge, you'd come out okay. The law's pretty clear-cut. If we're talking engine mods, it's a little stickier. That's the kind of thing that needs expert testimony as to the history of the engine (lp failure rates, etc).



I hate this 'you touched it, it's not warranted anymore' stuff manufacturers try to pull. It's not legal. But no one actually wants to fight it.



I'd be really interested to see someone actually try it, though--see how D/C actually responds to a serious claim.



And in any case, negotiation (with a different dealer, if need be) should always come first. There's too many lawsuits in the country as it is.



--Ty

 

[Texas Diesel]

Take them to small claims court, no lawyers allowed. Sue the dealer and DC. Someone here on the TDR sued and won on a Lift Pump denial because of a box. The Judge said that the dealer (and DC) had not proved the box caused the failure.

 

[Turboman]

More details.....



When we installed the Fastcoolers we used the DC nazi fluid just for this reason. 2ndly, The dealer is on our side, He was just informing us that the DC flunky would turn it down if he saw the Fastcoolers, so we brought the cover plates and reinstalled them on the bad transmission. It's all going to be OK, just a PITA to deal with their BS

 

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Turboman

More details.....



When we installed the Fastcoolers we used the DC nazi fluid just for this reason. 2ndly, The dealer is on our side, He was just informing us that the DC flunky would turn it down if he saw the Fastcoolers, so we brought the cover plates and reinstalled them on the bad transmission. It's all going to be OK, just a PITA to deal with their BS

AH HA!



You found a good dealer/service center. They want to help, and are being straight with you. 1 hour of your time is a small price to pay for a new transmission.



Hate the company, buy the service center a beer.



I am kind of going through this with my preferred dealer. The service manager that I was dealing with got transferred to the GM end of the dealership, so now I have to feel out another guy to see if he will focus on the problem and not notice any extra parts under the hood.



Don't lie, answer specific questions, and don't volunteer anything (lying by omission is something the cops and lawyers made up).

 

[y-knot]

I have too second the motion on "You are your own warranty station". I think you would have to be a hypocrite to believe DC should fix what you altered. They sold your a truck, and they warranted that truck for so long, they are responsible for only the truck they sold. That means stock and completely stock, as bought from the dealer. I do feel for the guy, It is most likely going to cost a pretty penny to get it fixed. This site is for of people that run out and modify there trucks from it's original form, I have no problem with that, I did the same. I also knew I was voiding my warranty, and excepted the fact. Any of you that added a fueling box, cold air kit, plate, remote filter, 4" exhaust, un-approved E-brake or anything else, should except that you may have voided your warranty. No-one made you change it, and DC sure didn't give you permission. it would be nice if we could always have the best of both worlds, but that isn't going to happen, nor should it. Dodge is responsible for there part, and their part alone, you take it upon yourself to change anything about the truck, then be ready to accept the consequences.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Y-KNOT:



AMEN!

 

[Oil Burner]

thats exactly why I paid for my lift pump last year. I also run redline MTL in my transmission and it won't go to Dodge if it goes south. It will be my money going up for the replacement. I don't expect Chrysler to repair my engineering mistakes, that's what my employer is for.



-Jason

 

[Ncostello]

Guy here at work bought a new Buick Rendezvous minivan. A week later he bought a top of the line DVD player with the screen installed in the roof so his kids could watch movies on trips. Had it professionally installed by a very reputable stereo dealer who has been known for show winning installations. The craftsmanship was impeccable.



Later at 20,000 miles the truck starts having severe electrical problems. Windows wont go down, locks stay locked, engine stumbles, wont start etc etc. Buick acknowledged that some were having this problem also and they would fix it.



After about 5 attempts to fix it... with some attempts taking up to 20 days... the problem was not solved. They offered no loaner car and the last round cost him 30 days without a vehicle. And they didn't touch it for 25 of them. He checked in every day by this time. Finally they blamed it all on the DVD player and said it voided his problem. The real problem was their in-experienced techs could not fix it in an hour or two so it wasn't worth it. It might have been sitting in there with the hood up but they sure as heck were not doing anything. The tech said they could not duplicate. He would go in and show them himself and they'd say "oh... ok". Later they wouldn't allow him in the shop for "insurance reasons".



His lawyer was able to negotiate a buy back of sorts except he lost his mileage. They offered him a deal where he could have the buy back valve towards any new GM... cept he couldn't have any rebates or discounts over MSRP. He declined, lost some cash and settled for a 2004 Durango Hemi.



Moral I suppose is that MM act didn't even make Buick flinch. In fact they toyed with him so much it was pathetic. Regional managers promising call backs and nothing would come of it. They'd finally call weeks later and act as if they were just made aware of the situation.



It was a mess and its something I don't want to spend my lifes time dealing with. He'll never ever buy another GM product. And that is how these companies lose business one person at a time.



But I am in total agreement that performance enhancing engine mods are off limits when break down occurs and you need warranty work due to failure. I moved my lift pump and I know I'm outta luck so I won't even ask if the VP dies.