Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) DDIII's w/EZ vs DDII's w/ EZ on an ETH

[BigDan]

This has probably been talked about a thousand times but I was tired of searching through hundreads of threads not relating to my question.



I have a 2002 HO with a Edge EZ, Straight Pipe, BAHF, w/ a SBC and gauges on the way.



My question which would be better as far a power and realibility goes? I an leaning twards the 3's. Would 3's w/ a EZ make more power then 2's w/ comp? I dont want to buy a new turbo so the comp and 3's are definetly out. Will I need a new turbo using the 3's w/ EZ.



Rebember the ETH doesnt respond as well as the ETC with bombing power numbers. I also heard you should run bigger injectors with the ETH.



Thanks

 

[Diesel Freak]

Originally posted by BigDan

Will I need a new turbo using the 3's w/ EZ.



Rebember the ETH doesnt respond as well as the ETC with bombing power numbers. I also heard you should run bigger injectors with the ETH.



Thanks

If you want to use ALL of the power, and not have to worry about EGT's, then a PDR40 is mandatory.



read these two threads



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68457



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67401



I am running DD3's and a Diablo Power Puck (timing Box like the EZ) on my ETH.



Running DD3's an EZ, and a PDR40 vice DD2's and a COMP with the stock turbo?



well, the results will be closer than some people are willing to admit... even more so when EGT's are brought into the equation.

 

[Hohn]

I was actually pondering this exact question, since our trucks are similar.



I am thinking that DD3s would be a better choice. Remember, you can always take away fuel from a bigger injector easier than you can add it to a smaller one. I would rather NOT use power that I have than ask the engine to come up with power that's not there.



DD3 MAY be marginally less efficient than the DD2, so you may see a bit of smoke under that same conditions that a 2 would not smoke. This is THEORY of mine-- most users report almost identical smokiness, just more power with the dd3.



Generally, a COMP is only worth ~35hp more than an EZ on an ETH. Consensus seems to be make your power with injectors on an ETH. It may be a little easier on your pump too.



I would guess that a COMP+dd2 is about the same as EZ+DD3. I bet the latter combo would have a little lower EGT though, since it injects more fuel earlier and in less time. The longer injector cycle of the heavy fuel boxes is the main reason that they can show you screaming EGTs in a hurry (fuel still burning when exhausted).



As for turbos (w/dd3), it really depends on how often you want to use your power. If you tow a lot or heavy (>8K) you will almost HAVE to have a turbo upgrade (with both DD2 or 3, I might add). If you have a lead foot and want to do a lot of extended runs with the fuel on kill, then again, consider a turbo upgrade.



If, however, you don't tow much and tend to use the power only to play with, then you don't need a turbo. The stock turbo will spool instantly, and give you a real hit.



IMHO, I would go with the 3s and defer the turbo upgrade. With the ETH/DEE combo, it's easy to manage EGT if you are willing-- back off the pedal, downshift, whatever. If you had an auto (and the weeny turbo) then the story would be different, and you would have to bomb differently.



Don't believe the story that an ETH doesn't bomb as well as an ETC. It just responds differently. Make your power with mild box (EZ or Van Aaken) and monster injectors, and watch out!



DD claims that all other being equal, an ETH will have about 30HP more than an ETC when bombed to the limits. (probably from the higher compression)



**disclaimer: I only have an EZ, so I am just reporting what I have garnered from many hours spent addicted to the TDR board**



HOHN

 

[BigDan]

I dont tow that much just about 7K five times a year. So it seems like there about even.



3's w/ EZ and PDR40 vs 2's w/ comp ????



So I should probably save myself $1,100 and just go with the 2's and a comp since its cheaper and gives the same amount of power with less egt's.



3's w/ EZ, PDR40 is $2215



2's w/ comp is $1155



What do you think???

 

[Hohn]

You don't need to have the PDR40 with the DD3+EZ combo. It's a nicety, not a necessity.



You can manage EGT by backing off the pedal or downshifting when towing.



Then, when you AREN'T towing, you can have more fun with the dd3s.



BTW, the EZ+3s should have LESS egt than comp+2s. That's because of the fuel being injected earlier.



Once you rule out the cost of the turbo, the two options have the same cost (since dd3 costs more than the dd2s by the roughly same amount that comp is more than EZ)



If anything, you would need the turbo MORE with the COMP+2 than the EZ+3 combo, since EGT would be higher.



Go with the EZ+3 combo-- it's more fun when you are empty, lower EGT at a given power level, and IF you tow, managing EGT is not a problem (mentioned earlier).



Shoot there are some that ran dd3s with the weenie HY turbo!!



True, you would need a turbo upgrade if you wanted to use ALL your power, put unless you tow really heavy, you can't possibly use it all for a long enough duration to really hurt things. You will run out of road before that when running empty.



Heat=load. The more load on the engine, the more heat. Running empty, you can only load the engine with the weight of the truck. That means you will accelerate fast enough to where you can't stay in it longer than 20 seconds or so. Put 15K behind you and THEN do a WFO run and watch things melt. With the weight, you can load the engine for much LONGER. That's when you will hurt things.



Again, unless you tow really heavy, you don't need a turbo upgrade. Just watch the pyro when you tow and if you get hot 1) slow down a bit and 2) downshift. Keeping the rpm up and downshifting will cool you right off. This is because of there is more air for the given level of fuel, and there is less fuel also because there is less load on the engine in a lower gear.



Hohn

 

[Diesel Freak]

Originally posted by Hohn

You don't need to have the PDR40 with the DD3+EZ combo. It's a nicety, not a necessity.



BTW, the EZ+3s should have LESS egt than comp+2s. That's because of the fuel being injected earlier.



If anything, you would need the turbo MORE with the COMP+2 than the EZ+3 combo, since EGT would be higher.



Go with the EZ+3 combo-- it's more fun when you are empty, lower EGT at a given power level, and IF you tow, managing EGT is not a problem (mentioned earlier).

BINGO!

 

[CFAR]

The following from the Edge website, basically a comp has an ez built in, plus additional features:

There are two types of levels on the Comp Power Levels, and Sub Levels. The Power Level sets the power increase under full boost that the Comp module will add, regardless of Sub Level setting. The Sub Level settings allow for adjustment of low boost fueling eliminating smoke if larger injectors or turbos are added.



Sub levels 1-3 on the Comp will provide defueling below stock. The defueling mode is entered if three conditions are met: rpm and boost are below a set value, and if stock fueling is being increased beyond a set rate. These conditions are different for each sub level 1-3. Once defuel is entered the rate of fueling increase is limited resulting in the defueling to reduce smoke. Defuel mode is exited once stock fuel equals the fueling from the limited increase, this way the transition is smooth and cannot be felt while driving. Defuel mode is entered the easiest in sub level 1 and has the smallest allowable fuel increase, while sub level 3 defuel mode is not entered as easily and has a larger allowable fuel increase.



Sub Levels 4 and 5 (and EZ jumper settings 1-3) allow adjustment of the additional fueling above stock based on boost level. Sub Level 5 (EZ jumper setting 3) will add the most fuel at low boost, Sub Level 4 corresponds to jumper setting 2 on the EZ. The amount of additional fuel to be added is calculated, the amount actually added after being compared to boost from the total is as shown below:

EZ Jumper setting 1 33% is added at 0 psi boost

100% is added at 20 psi boost



EZ Jumper setting 2 50% is added at 0 psi boost

100% is added at 15 psi boost



EZ Jumper setting 3 67% is added at 0 psi boost

100% is added at 10 psi boost



Fuel may be added at 0 psi boost on all Sub Levels and EZ Jumper settings unless the defuel mode is entered as described above.



Power Level 1 on the Comp is the same as the EZ, on Power Levels 2-5 addition power is added via the wire tap onto the VP44 injection pump. If the pump wire is not attached with a Comp Levels 2-5 can be ran, but the power gain is not any higher than Level 1, the power will come in much earlier in the throttle but overall gain is the same.