Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) DDP4's vs 370's injectors

[Signal73]

Im sure Josh will be along to clarify, but I believe (hope) he is talking about diesel dynamics.

Think I have heard something mentioned a few months back about the same.

 

[thekidfan]

Or maybe a "hint" as to what forum to look around at

 

[JoshPeters]

I'm working on getting ahold of him now. I was just told DD. I didn't realize there were 2 companies that were "DD. "



I've been out of the search for injectors for so long that I haven't followed the different companies! Sorry guys. I'll get more information as soon as I can.



Josh

 

[RFahlen]

Okay all,





Here we go. First of all, for a few months it has been our poilcy not to post too much about our injectors on the internet. We do not have an excess of time to be on the forums, we already work 10+ hours pre day, and when we get home it is family or fun time. We do monitor them if possible to see what is happening, but if a customer has a direct question, we rely on them to see our advertising, and call us directly. We do feel that in this situation, we owe it to our exsisting and future customers to address this matter.



We have been contacted by one cutomer that has had a motor failure. When we called this person back to discuss the details of the problem our owner Lenny took notes. Below is a list of the things that this customer stated, or admitted to him. We have no reason to believe that what this customer stated was a lie, and I will list exactly how it was stated to us.



The truck in question:



#1 Truck pulls on the weekends, and does well, usually battles with a Duramax for 1st or 2nd place.



#2 Has a Pyrometer that goes up to 1500 degrees, but the owner has no idea what it gets up to since it hits 1500 degrees and stops.



#3 Had a #6 piston that was melted. (The one that always goes) Immediatly after the pull, a rough idle was present, and the motor decided to quit the next day.



#4 Has a motor with 196,000 Miles, and is completly stock internally including pistons



#5 Has never had a drive pressure check



#6 Has a Phat Shaft 66 wastegated to 55 lbs (a semi Small charger for an injector that is capable of 900+ horsepower on #2 only)



#7 Has a 911 P Pump with 4k gsk and laser cut DV's. (The capability to deliver a lot of fuel)



When we asked this customer to tell us what he wanted, he replied with a question to us, asking what we wanted to do. Our request was to see the injector in question, pics of the piston on all sides, and the the connecting rod. At this point we have seen nothing, so no calls have been made to this customer as of yet to tell him how we were going to proceed.



We at DDP, and many of our happy customer believe that the Stage 4 12 valve injector is the the absolute best high performance injector available. We also believe that competitors of DDP may be interested in slandering this product. Recently we have been contacted by DDP stage 4 customers saying that another person has contacted them asking them to send their injectors to a competitor of ours to have them "Checked out"



Even our Stage 3 injector is enough fuel for most people. We have made over 800 hp with nitrous, and over 600 with #2 only with a stage 3. As with any of addition fuel to your diesel truck, you should intall and USE your pyrometer.



The only issues that one could have with our 12valve injetors is the amount of fuel they can deliver. That coupled with the fact that I have no control over the timing that is set can create a situation like this.



Again we feel that this post was necessary to help insure the confidence that our happy customers already have. We have no intention of slandering the persons involved, or any intention of continuing a long drawn out battle within internet forums about this matter. Many of you may feel this is a cop out. We feel that after our side of the story is told, we have no futher business here going back and forth with a he said, she said.



Thank you very much to all of our current and future customers out there. We really do appreciate the support you give us.



Sincerly



Dynomite Diesel

 

[Signal73]

Dosent sound like an injector problem to me thats for sure, more like a lack of self control. Esp. being #6. Heck if you warranty problems caused by the above conditions, you should warranty injectors that were taken out with a crowbar and lugnut and bent on a 45° angle :-laf

 

[thekidfan]

Thanks for the post Ross!!

 

[JoshPeters]

Well either the story told to me was incorrect, or there is more than one case going on.



I apologize for any "jumping the gun" that may have been done on my part. I was trying to see what was going on, but if the injector is truely at fault, I didn't want it to happen to anyone else.



Josh

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

If an engine failure occurred from a melted piston, I say it's due to excessive EGTs. If an injector failed, wouldn't it likely be from splitting or having the tip fall out? If that was the case, the piston shouldn't be melted, but look normal other than having the crown hammered up from the injector tip.



When you push equipment to the limit, failures are part of the game, no matter whose performance products you are using.



Vaughn

 

[JoshPeters]

Well if it's a 5 hole injector... one hole doesn't work, the other has the spray pattern at... lets say 60degrees instead of the proper 30 and is spraying fuel across the top of the piston, it gets ugly. We all know that it needs to spray into the bowl of the piston. ***I do not know the actual spray angles, this is just an example***



The Story I was told was the driver was doing 60mph with the cruise set. The egt's were normal, coolant temp was normal. It all the sudden devolped a miss. That cylinder and only that cylinder got hot enough to fold the exhaust valve over. Not break it, but fold it over so the valve face was touching the head. The piston has one area that melted WAY more than the rest, and that sagged down to the oil ring. The bottom of the piston looks perfect, the rod is fine. Infact the wrist pin still spins in the bore nicely. So the cooling nozzle was doing it's job.



Again, it's not my truck, so the real story I don't know. That is what I was told. Where it goes from here is between the owner and the injector company.



I do have one point I'd like to bring up. Sled pulling or not, small turbo or not... . BBD has said he sees over 1800 degrees sled pulling other guys have said the same. The pull doesn't last long enough to do damage like I saw on this piston, even at 1800 degrees.



Josh

 

[Signal73]

And Scott uses DDP 4's

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Sounds like a transmission thread already. The board needed some action



Jim

 

[Signal73]

Sounds like a transmission thread already. The board needed some action



Jim

"but mom, Jim Fulmer started it" :-laf

 

[JoshPeters]

And Scott uses DDP 4's

Give him a shout and see if they are still in the truck.



JP

 

[K5KRAZIE]

When dealing with "performance" and "stock" parts with 200,000 miles or 10 miles on them something is bound to give. I have gone to the track and broken but also have not broken until the week after racing when going to the grocery store just driving down the road. Failure happens, sometimes when you least expect it. The hardcore pullers/power making trucks I can tell you have had their share of failures and have built their motors to a point that they can take the abuse racing/pulling places on parts better than the motor that was orignally placed into your chassis. To go out on the track with your truck and put it under that kind of stress is fun as heak but you have to know with 200K on the motor things are not going to take the abuse for long. I commend DDP for standing behind their products time and time again. There is more than one company out there that states "race parts are not covered under warranty" and will leave you twisting in the wind. I deal with companies that stand behind what they feel is right and whos products do what they say they will do. You do have to do some research when spending the money some people do on these trucks. Having said that I have a limited amount of time in this "sport" but I can tell you first hand there are some upstanding people supporting these high powered trucks.

 

[zstroken]

I have a set of the DDP4's in my truck. They actually were the original DDP4's. I sent them to dynomite this spring when I had the head off for Oringing. I had about 3500-4000 miles on the DDP4's. DDP said that what I had(the old 4) is actually what they sell as a DDP3 now. They upgraded my old 4's to new 4's, and overnighted them back. My pistons looked good. I had a slight mark on my number 5 cylinder wall that was visible, but couldn't be detected with a finger nail. So before everyone jumps the gun, we need to check with people who use the 4's. Not saying that the failure is not an injector problem. Maybe their was one bad set that got out, maybe there are hundreds. I talked to BBD, and I talked to PDR(piers) I would suggest other people might do the same. I have also talked to the shop that had the motor apart because of the problem. Not saying that there is or is not a problem here. Josh is just letting everyone know that he knows of a problem that has occured. This is the great thing about the board, information. I will pull my head at the end of the season for an inspection, or it could have a problem right now. I haven't played with injectors enough to know, but I would think if the spray angle is way off, that lots hazing would occur at idle??? So has anyone else heard of failures?? Was this a one off, or was have many others had this problem??

 

[JoshPeters]

Thanx Z,



I'm not trying to crank up any trouble. I also don't want to be called a trouble maker. To know for sure what happened, would be impossible. The things I have been told, and the things that have followed the tear down point to the injector. That's all I'm saying.



Z is right, it could be one isolated injector. It could have been a bad batch. Who knows. I'm not one to cry the sky is falling for nothing. But, in this case I truely needed more information before I said anything to this board. We all are a sharp bunch, and to "pick" on anyone for anything can get very ugly quickly.



So I apologize to you, as a group for not having all my poop in a group before I said anything. I just don't want someone else to have to punch their block . 040 over due to a failure like this.



JP

 

[moremph]

So did something happen to BBD???

Just sounded like it in Z's post. Is he still using these injectors??

 

[thekidfan]

Just thinking out loud here... ... There was a failure, of some sort! If it was the injector don't get on the web and talk about it send it to DDP and see what they say if they tell you to pound sand then by all means get on here and bash too your hearts content, but without even giving them a chance to inspect the suspected part is just not right, and I will go one step further to say that if it was the injector now he's on his own for repairs as the damage to DDP's name has already been done, and we all know it takes 1k's of rights to make up for 1 wrong!!



MANY, MANY times I read on here about people who have a problem of some sort with a product and they want all of us to give advice and make them feel better that it wasn't there fault and they were so wronged before they ever even consult the vendor that they previously talked up to no end about how great there product was. I guess what I am saying is if you have a problem please do us all a favor and keep your problem under wraps till you at least give the vendor the "chance" to "make it right"!!



BTW: I am not a vendor and yes I have had failure before AND the vendor did me right as I thought they would the moment I spent my first dollar with them! Good luck to all

 

[JoshPeters]

Kidfan...



I did my best to keep it so. People kept pushing to know. ReRead post 14 where I said.



"The details are not mine to say. They aren't my trucks. When everything is finalized and the lawyers are done, then I can say. "



You are right, I shouldn't have said anything. But if you had seen the damage, you would do the same. There is more to the story than I have said here, but I will say no more. I will let the Customer and the Company deal with it, and then when it's all done, state what I know.



As I stated above, I shouldn't have said anything without having my poop in a group. I'm just trying to keep others from having a problem.



JP

 

[thekidfan]

JP, I hope you didn't think I was just hammerin' you, I didn't mean it that way at all. I know it is very hard to keep anything quiet these days .

But you say "I would do the same" not true, and trust me when I say the damage was not minor there are a few people that know what happened and they also know how well I was taken care of

I definantly would like to hear the outcome and I truley hope it works out as best as possible for your buddy, when he can or you can talk more please keep me in mind on or off the record!