Dealer says that Cummins says that Oil in the compressor side of turbo normal

[Motorhead]

As I queried you guys a while back about finding oil aft of the turbo compressor wheel on my 5. 9, you all said that the compressor side should be clean of any oil. Well I took it to the dealer as I still have the extended warranty left. The mechanic called Cummins supposedly and they say that some oil in the compressor side is considered NORMAL . Now I am wondering what is acceptable and what is not. I tend to believe you guys.
I saw these on ebay and thought about replacing the cartridge. http://www.ebay.com/itm/290777675661?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:VRI&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2661
What do you think??

 

[Wingate]

Did the dealership measure the wear in the turbo? There are specific procedures for measuring the wear of a turbo. As a side note, lots of idling and low load operation can cause a turbo to slobber. .

 

[jgillott]

Are you seeing oil loss?

 

[mwilson]

Did the dealership measure the wear in the turbo? There are specific procedures for measuring the wear of a turbo. As a side note, lots of idling and low load operation can cause a turbo to slobber. .

Drooling from extended idle or operating at low temps is still very common even on modern diesel engines, one tends to think of it being something from the old 2 strole Detroit Diesel days... .



Motorhead, if you want e-mail me either your complete VIN or the engine serial number. I can go into the Cummins Tech area of QuickServe and look for any procedures and/or specs relating to your series of engine. There should be an acceptable standard in there somewhere. At the least to confirm or deny what you were told at the dealership. I would be happy to do so in the morning.



-- email address removed --



Mike.

 

[Motorhead]

Did the dealership measure the wear in the turbo? There are specific procedures for measuring the wear of a turbo. As a side note, lots of idling and low load operation can cause a turbo to slobber. .

The tech checked the turbo shaft while I watched. Said he couldn't feel any wear. Where I live, my truck doesn't see prolonged idle and it certainly doesn't see a lot of low load driving.

Are you seeing oil loss?

I noticed about 1/2-2/3qt between changes. I have just 60,000mi

Drooling from extended idle or operating at low temps is still very common even on modern diesel engines, one tends to think of it being something from the old 2 strole Detroit Diesel days... .

Motorhead, if you want e-mail me either your complete VIN or the engine serial number. I can go into the Cummins Tech area of QuickServe and look for any procedures and/or specs relating to your series of engine. There should be an acceptable standard in there somewhere. At the least to confirm or deny what you were told at the dealership. I would be happy to do so in the morning.

mwilson@freightlinerofmaine.com

Mike.

Thanks Mike!!! Will do. I'll send you a PM with the vin and engine serial number.

What do you guys think about the new turbo cartridge? I eventually want to replace my turbo with a Garrett BB but not now.

 

[cerberusiam]

The tech checked the turbo shaft while I watched. Said he couldn't feel any wear.

Did you ask him for his feeler certification?? I'd be afraid of the answer these days. :-laf:-laf





Seal on the compressor side can be seeping and no where apparent or measurable in the shaft. For the most part if you are seeing definite oil in the turbo and CAC tube AND you don't use an oiled filter, its should be warrantied. Should be and will be are 2 different things anymore, but it is still not right.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Cummins treats its customers much like some Dodge dealers do - they will talk crap, make stuff up or just plain lie. They seem to do it just to get out of the work.
Buddy bought a new Kenworth with an 8. 3 whose turbo has leaked tons of oil since new. While under warranty they said it was normal. Really? Normal to go through more than a gallon of oil every 1k miles?? They claim it is and would never do anything about it.

 

[jelag]

When I was in business I/we used to deal with 3 Cummins locations under the same corporation... 3 branches... We used to sell them brake shoes, clutches, some air compressor etc... I was amazed one day when they were looking for 2 shoes to do a partial brake job on a truck. . they were doing a 1/2 axle and had no clue of the quality of the friction they were trying to match on the other side... and they only wanted to repair where the grease seal had leaked all over the shoes... . this is really a no no in a class 8 truck... I could tell a lot of stories about them... but the key here is most of the guys were nice guys. . but were way over their head when they walked away from the lap top connected to the ECM...

Mike, would you mind another email regarding oil consumption in a 5. 9... also what I think is a turbo problem. .

 

[mwilson]

When I was in business I/we used to deal with 3 Cummins locations under the same corporation... 3 branches... We used to sell them brake shoes, clutches, some air compressor etc... I was amazed one day when they were looking for 2 shoes to do a partial brake job on a truck. . they were doing a 1/2 axle and had no clue of the quality of the friction they were trying to match on the other side... and they only wanted to repair where the grease seal had leaked all over the shoes... . this is really a no no in a class 8 truck... I could tell a lot of stories about them... but the key here is most of the guys were nice guys. . but were way over their head when they walked away from the lap top connected to the ECM...



Mike, would you mind another email regarding oil consumption in a 5. 9... also what I think is a turbo problem. .

No problem, Jim. Send it to me.



I will post the accepted oil consumption chart for you guys, I did once before way back. It is a real eye opener.



I love my Cummins, but warranty can be a real battle. We fight with them on customers behalf, although RapidServe (the warranty arm of Cummins) has made some changes in the last year as a result of many dealers complaints regarding the process in general.



The trouble that Motorhead may have is getting Dodge to do something about it where Cummins is not involved at all.

But, turbos should have a little better guidelines. I hope to find the benchmark for that somewhere in QuickServe.

That will at the least give him something that can be presented to his dealer with a Cummins logo on it.



Bear in mind that there is a lot of fraud and needless parts replacements that are submitted as warranty claims to any and all OEM's so they have their guard up.

For example Freightliner dealers are audited every few years and asked to provide all documentation to back up the claims the auditor picks to check. A missing signature on a work order here resulted in a billback of many thousands of dollars on one job alone.



I will work on this as I get time this morning and post the results.



Mike.

 

[NIsaacs]

I was amazed one day when they were looking for 2 shoes to do a partial brake job on a truck. . they were doing a 1/2 axle and had no clue of the quality of the friction they were trying to match on the other side... and they only wanted to repair where the grease seal had leaked all over the shoes... . this is really a no no in a class 8 truck...



A little off topic, but... .



Jim, in the log woods none of us ever did a complete axle unless it needed it. It was one brake at a time, truck or trailer.



Nick

 

[AH64ID]

In addition to some normal oil from cold/low temp operations the exhaust brake can push a little oil thru as well, especially when cold. I also once found a Cummins release or bulletin (maybe not that formal) that stated that exhaust brake pressure should always be lower than oil pressure to prevent pushing exhaust thru the turbo seal. The PXRB and BD variable orifice brakes can easily have more back-pressure than oil pressure, which may also lead to oil in the compressor.

 

[mwilson]

In addition to some normal oil from cold/low temp operations the exhaust brake can push a little oil thru as well, especially when cold. I also once found a Cummins release or bulletin (maybe not that formal) that stated that exhaust brake pressure should always be lower than oil pressure to prevent pushing exhaust thru the turbo seal. The PXRB and BD variable orifice brakes can easily have more back-pressure than oil pressure, which may also lead to oil in the compressor.

AH64ID, Thanks. I'll see if I can find that release.



On a humorous note during break I started sifting through bulletins relevant to Motorhead's ESN.

Found this warning if you are unhooking the exhaust plumbing on a boat... .



You do realize that this has been done in the past or there be no warning such as this. Imagine calling your boss and telling him that you just sunk a customers boat... .

Mike.

 

[jelag]

Nick, if your doing your own trucks,(fleet operation) using the same coefficient of friction on each 1/2 axle there is no problem... your pulling shoes from a common stock, and a common vendor... when you have a customers truck in the shop and they have lets say a high coefficient of friction on one side, and a low coefficient on the other side, the ability of that axle to brake evenly is hampered. . the higher side will do more work and will attempt to stop the turning drum with the same air pressure applied to the chamber. .

 

[cerberusiam]

LMAO!!!! :-laf:-laf



Mike, you are correct that has happened or the warning would not be there. That is funny right there!

 

[Motorhead]

Nick, if your doing your own trucks,(fleet operation) using the same coefficient of friction on each 1/2 axle there is no problem... your pulling shoes from a common stock, and a common vendor... when you have a customers truck in the shop and they have lets say a high coefficient of friction on one side, and a low coefficient on the other side, the ability of that axle to brake evenly is hampered. . the higher side will do more work and will attempt to stop the turning drum with the same air pressure applied to the chamber. .

My posting is about oil in the turbo... ... NOT brake jobs. I need help about MY questions

 

[JJPage]

Motorhead, I had an aftermarket turbo that was burping oil into the compressor side, boost tube, cac, etc. While speaking on the phone to the turbo supplier, he had me check several things, radial/axial shaft play, restricted drain tube, everything appeared normal, but was still forcing oil to the compressor side.

They finally agreed to send me a new turbo, but said if they found nothing wrong with the one I was sending back, I would have to reimburse shipping costs. After about a week, they called me and said the thrust bushing supporting the compressor wheel was faulty. A visual inspection without pulling it apart did not prove this, not sure if you are in a position to have Cummins or a reputable turbo shop install new bushings if needed, then show the results to Dodge... . for warranty... hard to get companies to testify against one another.

I do not believe I would go the route of the cartridge on ebay, what if the problem is in the housing? I also do not believe the amount of oil you are describing is anywhere near normal. AH64ID may be on to something about your exhaust brake back pressure, forcing oil past the journal bearings, I would eliminate that as the problem first. Jess

 

[NIsaacs]

My posting is about oil in the turbo... ... NOT brake jobs. I need help about MY questions

Relax Motorhead, most of the guys ARE helping you... .



Nick

 

[Motorhead]

Sorry Nick, I wasn't referring to you. I am trying to get a consensus of what is acceptable and what is not. Last thing I want is a small issue to become an engine failure due to a turbo grenading.

 

[mwilson]

Motorhead, I found the turbo test procedures in the Cummins QuickServe area. However I printed it all off and neglected to scan it into our server at work before leaving so that I could access it from home.

I will scan it first thing in the morning so that I can get it to you.

I did not find any statements regarding acceptable turbo leakage (I say it should not leak at all) but at least you will have the test methods in hand if it comes to that point.

I did talk to a couple of techs at work, they don't feel that oil laying in the cold side is a normal condition. I have two other techs to quiz tomorrow, they are both our resident Cummins experts and were very busy today when I was not and vice versa... ... .



Bear with me.....



Mike.

 

[AH64ID]

When I pulled my HE351 off at 65K miles it had a little out in the compressor discharge, which my local mechanic figured was from the exhaust brake. He says it's normal on the rigs he works on with brakes, and slightly more so with the variable ones (like I mentioned above). I sold the turbo and the guy is using it on a set of twins on a 2nd gen truck. He has a ton of miles towing on it, and nothing is coming out but he doesn't have an exhaust brake.