Dealer says "Valve Problem"

[blake underwood]

Yesterday my truck started idling low at the stop light. It idled at 600 RPM's while my foot was on the brake then when letting off it jumps to 1000 RPM's and slowly takes off w/o stepping on the throttle.



Get home take off the BDDL and TST, put on a new fuel filter and air filter, and clear codes. Now it still does the same thing and makes a ticking sound under acceleration.



Also, while at the light going to the dealer this morning, it idled at 600 RPM's, barreling black smoke out, and the EGT's just kept climbing 'til the light turned green and I let off.



It also tries to take off from going Park to Drive, or (shifting into any other gear and Reverse). RPM's jump and if your foot is not on the brake it'll take off.



Dealer just called and said it is a valve prob. and will be $250 to tear into it and just to fingd the prob.



WHAT SHOULD I DO NEXT???

 

[BILLUA]

I take it they have voided your warranty??? You might find a different dealer or just bite the bullet and take it to Cummins...



Sorry to hear this about your truck...

 

[Badunit]

I suppose black smoke could be caused by an intake valve not opening (plenty of fuel but little air or compression on that cylinder) or an exhaust valve not closing (plenty of fuel but not enough compression to ignite it), EGT's could go up from that fuel burning in the exhaust manifold, and the low idle could be from loss of power from that one cylinder. The rest could be due to engine computer programming trying to compensate.



But I'm no diesel mechanic.

 

[blake underwood]

Anyone else???

 

[67guzzler]

Why do you have to pay anything at all? Isn't the drivetrain under warranty?

 

[LLiddell]

Just a thought here. My friend had a power problem several years ago and the dealer said it was a valve problem and did the valve job. It fixed nothing! Turned out to be a bad accelerator cable. New cable..... problem fixed. He was P****d.

 

[AK RAM]

What were the codes that you cleared?

 

[DPKetchum]

I think I would want a complete run down of the diagnotics.

 

[Rams-n-Hogs]

I may be way off base here, but it almost sounds as if the torque converter isn't unlocking, and loading up the engine. Just a thought. How does it run, and shift, at speed, and what codes did you clear? I'm no expert, either, but I just can't see the valve train causing those symptoms, especially if the truck isn't missing on one at least one of the cylinders.



Jim

 

[AK RAM]

... ... barreling black smoke out... .

Thanks to the wonderful world of electronics, lots of things can make it run bad, but barreling out black smoke usually equates to a hard part problem. There may be more, but I have seen four things do as you subscribe. Some may be more likely to occur with your setup than others:



1) Injector, whether stuck open or a cracked tip. Classic symptoms depending on how bad the defect is. I noticed you have aftermarket tips.



2) Dropped valve seat, which is common on the 03 and 04s that see really high temps, 1600+*F on a frequent basis. The 04. 5 heads got beefier valve seats and don't seem to have the problems with 1600+*F that the 03/04 trucks have. With your TST / BDDL / EDMs and a B1 (B1-2 ?), I assume you probably see 1600*F pretty often?



3) Blown head gasket.



4) Blown turbo. With your setup and a B1-2, if it is a B1-2 (just guessing), it is being worked a lot harder than it likes I can promise you.



Pure speculation of course, but since your running a B1, you probably don't see pressures high enough to blow the head gasket. A dropped valve seat is very possible, but takes lots of work to remove the head and check. If it was a turbo problem it would have been screaming at you long before this. The first thing I would do (being it is the easiest) is probably an injector kill test one cylinder at a time, just to see if things improve when/if the culprit is turned off. Easy enough to do before you go pulling the head off. Then, if the dealer's non-invasive troubleshooting does not turn up anything, I would be buying a couple cases of beer and having a "tear it down" party.



Bummer though. I feel for ya.

 

[jawmail]

Why do you have to pay anything at all? Isn't the drivetrain under warranty?

His truck is not stock, check out his signature.

 

[Bob4x4]

Why do you have to pay anything at all? Isn't the drivetrain under warranty?

Does the b-1 and edm injectors mean anything





Bob

 

[blake underwood]

Dealer just called and the Mech. said one of the rocker arms was lose. It didn't damage anything else, so he said he's gonna put it back together, and see if the prob. is solved.



Sound right???

 

[67guzzler]

Does the b-1 and edm injectors mean anything

Hey Bob4x4 -- I'm not a moron so don't ask me rhetorical questions.



While we're asking what things mean, Bob4x4, Do you know the meaning of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act? It basically says that any modification to your vehicle can't void your warranty if that modification didn't cause the failure.



Hey jawmail -- Yes, I read is his signature. I was just asking to try to get specifics on what aspects of his bombing would cause him to worry about warranty coverage. Please see my insightful response to the friendly Bob4x4 above.

 

[BrianJ]

Hey Bob4x4 -- I'm not a moron so don't ask me rhetorical questions.



While we're asking what things mean, Bob4x4, Do you know the meaning of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act? It basically says that any modification to your vehicle can't void your warranty if that modification didn't cause the failure.



Hey jawmail -- Yes, I read is his signature. I was just asking to try to get specifics on what aspects of his bombing would cause him to worry about warranty coverage. Please see my insightful response to the friendly Bob4x4 above.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act has nothing to do with aftermarket parts that change the stock operating parameters of the vehicle. The MMWA ONLY refers to replacement (i. e. routine maintenance) parts. There is no provision in the act for parts that affect or change the manufacturer's operating parameters of the vehicle.



It kills me how many people think the MMWA is a licence to BOMB the heck out of your vehicle and still expect the dealer to cover it when it breaks. Said quite often on this site and others, "be prepared to PAY to PLAY".

 

[BrianJ]

Hey jawmail -- Yes, I read is his signature. I was just asking to try to get specifics on what aspects of his bombing would cause him to worry about warranty coverage. Please see my insightful response to the friendly Bob4x4 above.

I think this (His Signature Line)



"(2004 QC SB 2500 Laramie 4x4) B-1, EDM's, TST, BDDL, TAG III, AFe Stage 2 w/ Cool Blue Hose, 4 in. Donaldson/5 in. SS tip, ATS transmission, FASS, X-monitor-FP/ Boost/Pyro, Di Pricol trans. temp. , Mag-Hytec rear diff. KORE Bilstein w/ FOX SS on 35x12. 50x17 Toyo M/T"



pretty much covers the entire drivetrain as far as saying goodbye to the warranty...

 

[67guzzler]

Brian --



I respectfully have to say you're being irrational AND you're wrong.



If you're anti-bombing, so be it. The "PAY TO PLAY" mantra is true but you don't give up all your consumer rights when add a widget to your truck.



Please read the act: http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/magnusonmoss.htm



Then read this common interpretation:



"Federal law sets forth requirements for warranties and contains a number of provisions to prevent vehicle manufacturers, dealers and others from unjustly denying warranty coverage. With regard to aftermarket parts, the spirit of the law is that warranty coverage cannot be denied simply because such parts are present on the vehicle, or have been used (see Attachment A). The warranty coverage can be denied only if the aftermarket part caused the malfunction or damage for which warranty coverage is sought. Disputes in this area usually boil down to arguments over facts and technical opinions, rather than arguments over interpretations of the law. "



Then read attachment A:



1. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U. S. C. 2302(C))



This federal law regulates warranties for the protection of consumers. The essence of the law concerning aftermarket auto parts is that a vehicle manufacturer may not condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which are identified by brand, trade, or corporate name (such as the vehicle maker's brand) unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. The law means that the use of an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty. However, the law's protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. Further, consumers are advised to be aware of any specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty which may result in its being voided. The law states in relevant part:



“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name... ” (15 U. S. C. 2302(C)).



Then please don't insult me with your generalities. These issues are far more complex than simply dismissing someone's comments.



My question was legitimate. Many times the dealers don't pay for repairs on vehicles with performance upgrades. Many times they do. Here it was presumed it wasn't covered. I simply wanted to explore that.

 

[Badunit]

Even with all the bombs on the truck, none of them could cause a rocker arm to come loose. It should be covered.

 

[blake underwood]

Just talked to Mechanic. He said that they are gonna do a cylinder test if they can get the tool from another dealer, because it is no set to be released to them until Oct. 10. He also stated the truck does run better now w/the rocker arm tightend down, but still has a knock. He says that Cylinder #5 is only at 73%-78%.



I'll know tomorrow if he can get the tool. If not I guess I'll have to wait and just go pick the truck up. He said to drive it won't cause anymore damage???

 

[BrianJ]

Brian --



I respectfully have to say you're being irrational AND you're wrong.



If you're anti-bombing, so be it. The "PAY TO PLAY" mantra is true but you don't give up all your consumer rights when add a widget to your truck.



Please read the act: http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/magnusonmoss.htm



Then please don't insult me with your generalities. These issues are far more complex than simply dismissing someone's comments.



My question was legitimate. Many times the dealers don't pay for repairs on vehicles with performance upgrades. Many times they do. Here it was presumed it wasn't covered. I simply wanted to explore that.

With all due respect, I am not anti-bombing nor do I feel as though I am being irrational, I am simply stating the facts that apply to the MMWA act.



Perhaps you need to read the ENTIRE text of the act and not just quote two paragraphs, which say nothing to the affect of ‘performance enhancing’ parts or parts that change the manufacturer operating parameters of the vehicle. Again, the act only applies to REPLACEMENT parts. If you want to use a different brand replacement part, such as air filter, oil filter, fluid, etc; as long as those REPLACEMENT parts meet manufacturer specs they are covered under the act.



Take a look at case history and the application of the act and you will see how any parts that alter the manufacturer’s operating parameters, i. e. chips/boxes, suspension lifts/mods, larger tires, etc. are not protected under the MMWA act.



Most of the mods listed by the original poster on this thread can affect the entire drive train. I don’t have the mechanical background to know if any of the mods can specifically affect the rocker arms, however, for the purpose of the discussion on the MMWA, the dealer/manufacturer has every right to void the entire drive train warranty based on the mods listed.



That being said, there is a lot of grey area in this matter, and most automakers won’t/shouldn’t void a warranty on unrelated parts, I am just setting the record strait on the MMWA act. Instead of blabbing at the mouth and quoting text from an aftermarket parts dealer website (they wouldn't be biased, would they ) do some real research (google/lexis/nexxis) and look at case law/history. They maybe you won’t be the irrational one generalizing your opinion.