Death wobble gets Federal attention???

[AEdelheit]

I remember reading a post by the president of KORE in, I believe late '07 or early '08 about the death wobble. They use Dodge trucks for their racing vehicles, so I assume he knows what he's talking about. He claimed at the time that their tests revealed tow in angle changes as the wheel bounces on 3rd gen. trucks, and sets off the death wobble. It's a design flaw from the factory. He recommended that owners get the '08 tie rod upgrade because it should solve the problem. I'm surprised it's taken this long to get the Fed's attention. Death wobble happened to me going around Boston w/camper loaded at 80 mph. I sympathize with anyone who's experienced it. My dealer won't replace the tie rod under the TSB unless there's front end damage. Good luck after the warranty's gone and your front end is destroyed. My dealer minimized the tow in angle and I haven't had the problem since, but now the truck tends to wonder. You can't take your eyes off the road for a second.

That was the earlier "Y" steering that he was referring too, unfortunately many newer trucks or trucks with the updated crossover type steering still have DW, wasnt really the problem.

 

[mwilson]

"Death wobble happened to me going around Boston w/camper loaded at 80 mph. "





You can't be serious... .....



You are going 80 mph with a CTD towing a camper on 128 or 495 I assume, some weight is off of the front end due to load in the rear, you hit one of many expansion joints that the Mass DOT can't seem to ever get righ, the DW starts in and you blamed the TRUCK???



Maybe you should trade it in for a Beamer or an Audi if you want to run with the lawyers in the fourth lane down there... ...



Wow.





Boy, are these Dodge's ever dangerous...



Mike.

 

[TCDiesel]

I cannot count how many (POS) vehicles (Cars/Trucks) of every make and model that the customers come to the Shop (St Cloud) and complain about front steering/Suspension Problems. After inspection (Chris) will find worn or broken component's. . and write up the repair. . Customer Quote "just do the Alignment" WTH. . how is someone going to align correctly with defective INSTALLED PARTS. they get all ****** off and ***** and leave BC WE red tag their POS vehicle..... WHY DON'T THE FEDS CHARGE ALL THESE WORTHLESS VEHICLE OWNERS WITH SOME TYPE OF RECALL. . Heck Chris grab 1 tie rod end and move it 1/4 and the owners was NOT willing to replace... But he was *****en about the tire wear on the set we sold him 1 year earlier. . By the way the ticket mention the lose end when tires replace... By law we cannot detain the vehicle We have to let the POS go out on the road and kill someone before the Feds will do some type of investigation on the cause WTH. .

Back on the Subject. . Chris has always somehow removed every DW that has been before him. . in some cases the owner may have some type of un-want steerer tire wear.



Hmmmmmmm 80 MPH owner... when was the last service on the front? did you upgrade Brakes and Suspension? Was there a cross wind? did you consider the road conditions? And YOU think Dodge is the Problem...

 

[cerberusiam]

RE: Baja trucks, purpose built machines. Suspension doesn't EVEN closely resemble the factory setup in materials or configuration other than the wheels go up and down.

DW normally occurs after hitting a devation in the road surface and then returning to a relatively smooth (unless you live in Detroit) road surface.

Baja trucks/vehicles, when driven at race speed and configuaration, probably have the tires in the air more than they do in contact with terra firma.

Not true. The suspension system on a chase or pre-runner type is very close to factory in its configuration and operation. They actually function outside the stock parameters in the arc the wheels describe with little or no issues. The difference being they have the parts and tolerances to do so. Doubtful you will find one with a sloppy tie rod end or questionable specs on the the ball joints.



There areas of the desert courses that are smoother than some of our roads and the transitions just as abrupt. Really, if the trucks spent more time with their wheels off the ground they would never get anywhere. The idea is to maximize the ground contact as much as possible to make the times needed to win.



The comparison may not be valid in parts, but, in operation it is. The design has solid potential and function. The biggest divergence being lack of maintenance by the owners and a desire to have a truck ride like a car.

 

[Mhannink]

what is interesting to me is i ran t style steering without a stabilizer shock i have the 3rd gen track bar but the bracket was broken front end was very loose and still i rarely got death wobble. it happened but not often.

 

[ENafziger]

Eric,

You made an error in quoting my post which makes it appear that I wrote the last sentence. That line about arguing was not from my post. <!-- google_ad_section_end --> <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Harvey,

I apologize. The quote of me quoting a quote someone quoted of you came out wrong.

Just to clear things up everyone, Harvey did NOT say he didn't want to argue. It was someone else!

P. S. Anyone who is familiar with Harvey's posts should realize quickly that it was NOT in fact him that refuses to argue

My apologies once again,

Eric

 

[HBarlow]

Eric,

I understand how the quotes within a quote can get jumbled.

And you are correct, I almost always happy to argue.

 

[mwilson]

Eric,



I have always been told that if you use the word "quote or quoted" in the same sentence more than five times the world will stop spinning and everyone will fall off. ??.....



That's the reason I will only allow one Staples easy button in the office, because if you push two at the same time dire consequences will follow.



I'm just sayin':-laf



Mike.

 

[ENafziger]

Eric,

I understand how the quotes within a quote can get jumbled.

And you are correct, I almost always happy to argue. <!-- google_ad_section_end --> <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Well thanks for accepting the apology, and for having a good attitude about it!!

Now, as to the subject at hand... I agree that worn components are the most likely cause. I got SEVERE death wobble that I finally traced down to a faulty track bar bushing.

After a free replacement was sent, there's been no more problems, even running 37" M/T tires.

--Eric

 

[AEdelheit]

Harvey,



I apologize. The quote of me quoting a quote someone quoted of you came out wrong.



Just to clear things up everyone, Harvey did NOT say he didn't want to argue. It was someone else!



P. S. Anyone who is familiar with Harvey's posts should realize quickly that it was NOT in fact him that refuses to argue



My apologies once again,



Eric

:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf man you made my nite Eric, hahaaha

 

[SRay]

Think construction, agriculture and all other heavy equipment. they all share the one important thing, 1. grease. Don't use grease? sloppy parts and expensive repairs. These things are greased everyday but even they wear out too. When they do, its the same as our dodges. Even Backhoes wobble when working the hole when worn a bit.

I do find that 2wd dodges have less problems and no dw that i know of.

I have my own tractor and work on farms and construction operating equipment.

Even a tractor i drove (not mine) which is 2wd, no moving suspension parts, hit a pothole in the farm laneway at 20 mph had the wobble. Cause? bad steering bearing and wheels out of alignment causing tires to fight for their place. (ever watch a wagon weave back and forth? that's tires fighting each other or badly worn parts causing tires to fight each other)

My tractor, same model as above but older, same bearing failure, no wobble. i did my own alignment and tires never fought each other. It's because tires are straight and true as well as tight tie rods.

My friend's 1996 dodge 4x4, 200,000 kms in 2 years (he's a contractor) and never greased. Track bar, tie rods, ball joints, all shot. Steering wheel turns a full quarter turn before the truck even moves slightly on the road and every bump caused major wobble. He thinks the cummins is great but the truck is s***, so never maintains it. During those 2 years, many front end parts have been replaced at most 3 times.

My 1997 dodge cummins 4x4? greased every 2500-5000kms. No death wobble yet, and driving on 35" toyos with 60,000 km on them with plenty life yet. Truck had 330,000kms when i bought it, now has over 435,000kms.

Maintenance is key. I don't even have any aftermarket parts on to tighten up the steering like a steering box stabilizer yet.

Death wobble is everywhere. Not just dodge

Also every manufacturers has defective parts of some kind that always seems to be allowed into the buying public. Or they're too cheap. Then someone gets upset.

 

[RSchwarzli]

First off to Eric, who let you out of the first gen camp?:-laf see what happens when you go looking for threads people read? cracked me up with your Harvey post!


As for my thoughts on the subject, I have a few.

First off I would like to know what dealer he services at. We have many truck incompetent dealers in Ontario. They have no clue how a truck works and many skip steps to save time. If they do not do a full inspection everytime the truck is up, problems could develop and no one would know until too late. Then they blame bad engineering and slander Rams name. I know of many situations similar to this when it was actually the dealers fault (actually techs fault).

Thought two. Does he even service at a dealer or does he do ONLY oil changes in his driveway? No grease on the front end won't help a long life... . Would like his VIN to pull up his service history.

Three. What mileage does this keep happening at and how is he using his truck? also never mentioned. Is he a soccer dad, or maybe playing in the Canadian north off roads?

Four. Are the front ends of these trucks weak? Yeah. A bit. I am a maintenance freak and the 08 mega had 68k miles on it and needed new stearing box, stabilizer, ball joints, u joints, etc. I have never had the truck off road or abused it and 90 percent of the miles are highway and likely half being towing (read less weight on front end). Yes, I was disappointed in the front end parts. But I serviced it at the first sign of trouble. And interesting to know all of the replacement parts are much beefier than the original components.

Five. Do I agree it is possible and Dodge will not help him? Yes. Automakers in Canada are not the most helpful when it comes to repeate issues and as Ontario has no lemon laws, you are mostly stuck with a vehicle regardless of how crumy it is. We had a 97 Suburban diesel. We were back to the dealer 18 times in 8 months due to lack of brakes. They were very unprofessional in dealing with the issue at the dealer, and national level. In the end we contacted US GM and they were of more help although their end answer was the Canadian big 3 are separate entities (read companies) then their US counterparts and therefore could not do a damn thing to help us as they would be helping customers from a different company so to speak, and that is frowned upon at the automakers. Cnada is Canada, and US is US.

In the end, I say the article is biased and the factual information that is needed to know the truth behind all this is left out. I reserve my opinion till I see the answers to my above thoughts.

Robert

 

[RSchwarzli]

And one last thought. I agree with the comments above. DW is not something new. Been around for a very long time!

 

[cerberusiam]

I am a maintenance freak and the 08 mega had 68k miles on it and needed new stearing box, stabilizer, ball joints, u joints, etc.

That really makes me wonder about something. Since the 1500-2500-3500 SRW mega's are all built on the same chassis, I wonder if some of them slipped thru the asembly line with the 1500 steering components on the heavier trucks?



I just don't see the issues on the front ends others are seeing. Of the 3 my kids and I had\have it was never a problem. I have 183k on my 05 and just now having to replace bushings, ball joints, wheel bearings, etc. Lots of towing on some rough roads also. We even ran larger tires and just never saw steering or DW issues unless it was an obvious part failure.



Either there is a broad quality in the components or we are just not getting the rest of the story on some of these things.



The tie rods snapping I am pretty sure is incorrect alignment. Guys have broken brand new supposedly upgraded ones when they installed them incorrectly and cranked the steering to the locks. These steering systems have some power in them and running them lock to lock stopped is HARD on even large components with the weight they have on them.



As Robert pointed out, a lot of these issues are looking like poor maintenance, flat out incompetent techs working on the steering\suspension systems without a clue how set them up correctly, and driver error.



It really is too bad a few instances cause such an uproar.

 

[SRay]

Cerberusiam:

I agree as well as with Robert's post, incompetent mechanics, poor maintenance, and drivers themselves are usually more to blame than the parts.
There are times parts can be defective, but hey, no ones perfect.

 

[RSchwarzli]

Cerb

No. I don't think 1500 parts would end up on a HD truck. Everything is different right down to suspension geometry. Not even sure the parts would bolt up. I just think the crappy parts are leftovers from the days of the three headed dog - Cerberus.

 

[cerberusiam]

I just think the crappy parts are leftovers from the days of the three headed dog - Cerberus.

There is probably a lot more truth in that statement than we would like to admit.

 

[thashane]

I am asking Santa for a fix to my sloppy steering, world hunger can wait.

 

[Jim W]

I am asking Santa for a fix to my sloppy steering, world hunger can wait.

I would read issue 74, Member 2 Member, Steering Woes, with introduction by Robert Patton and by Andy Redmond. This might help you to resolve the issues on your truck.

Jim W.



P. S. Note to editor; See we do read your publication.

 

[diezeldayzz]

While the "death wobble" is serious enough recently a fix has been discovered to this terrible plight. My friend has a 1st gen dodge and he told me he had the death wobble until he found this Dodge Steering Stabilizer. He was told that 80% of the time the death wobble is caused by the cummins torque monster twisting the frame which causes the rails to flex and wear down. This bar brings back the stability and has lasted him almost a year already. You may want to shop around to see what deals you can find but that's who he used. Anyway Good luck guys