After doing some searching on this site, I came across a recommendation for Mark at Greensburg Machine. I gave him a call and was real familiar of installing a Dana 70HD locker in a Dana 80 axle. They make proper bearing spacers and drill out the ring gear bolt holes. I did not think the price was out of line. He told me that he has set up hundreds and sent them across the country. His phone number is 724-837-8233.
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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Detroit Locker for Dana 80 with 3.54 gears
- Thread starter JDKammin
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How do you use your rig. If it is a daily driver and if it it a town driver you will not be pleased with a true detroit locker. It is very harsh and very hard on tires. If it is a road rig it would be fine in straight aways but cornering all the time will drive you nuts. I would recommend an air or electric locker.
BILLVO, Where do you get your info on Detroit lockers and why are you trashing them? I have had Detroits in my pickups and they do NOT trash tires or act harsh.
They have been around a very long time and are the best locker ever built. They are in street rods, muscle cars, and pickups. There is even a newer "Soft Locker" version.
Find someone who has one in their vehicle and go for a ride, Johnny. Make up your own mind. I think BILLVO's just regurgitating hearsay from guys who never had a Detroit.
They have been around a very long time and are the best locker ever built. They are in street rods, muscle cars, and pickups. There is even a newer "Soft Locker" version.
Find someone who has one in their vehicle and go for a ride, Johnny. Make up your own mind. I think BILLVO's just regurgitating hearsay from guys who never had a Detroit.
My mind is made up. I have the DL on the bench and the 35 spline Mosers to match. They will be in next week.
SRath this isn't the politics forum so why fight the simplicity of my advice I am "regurgugtating" My extensive experience with a lot of them personally no hearsay in my info here. I should have said "could be" rather than "are" Harsh. I never even came close to trashing detroit and yes they are a super locker. I have rebuilt piles of them and installed even more in customers rigs when I worked at the gear shop. And yes they do raise cain on tires if cornering a lot unless its a worn out or broken unit, Or unless you are super anal and rotate tires every 1k miles and just don't notice it. I have test driven every one of the vehicles including street rods with the detroit locker installed. The reason for being hard on tires is that one tire is always skidding a bit while cornering if it is a tight locker, if you do not get the feeling of it slipping then there is not enough force to make the locker slip giving it a somewhat normal feeling because the tires are scuffing instead. The shop I worked at actually pulled out 2 units I can think of right off the top of my head do to the fast wear of tires the customers didn't like.
You have obviously never felt your lockers slip and grind when the forces are great enough to cause it to slip. Unless you are numb and don't feel it you will usually hear them grinding when they slip.
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He's dragracing. He'll love it!
Mine were in pickups and I do not powerslide pickups around corners. I would love to put one in either of our Camaros, though ('69 and '73). Many Ford musclecars came factory with the famous Detroit "No-Spin" Locker. Those cars took corners great and were the envy of us Chevy boys with our 12-bolt "posi" at the dragstrip. Far superior strength and traction when combined with a Ford 9 inch. And as a Camaro guy, I hate ferds... but give credit where credit is due!
Do they have quirks? I suppose. For instance, if your rear tires are not EXACTLY the same size or inflated to EXACTLY the same pressure, you will feel the locker every time you accelerate and fishtail a little. Doesn't take much genius to figure out why or what to do about it.
In YEARS of driving my old K20 Chevy with a Detroit in the Corporate 14 bolt, I had exactly 2 "WTF" moments. Nothing bad happened, but they got my attention and made me think I just left parts of my rearend scattered down the highway.
All it was was the locker disengaging one wheel to allow the different wheel speeds REQUIRED to take a corner. In those cases: A very hard corner (that's how they work: like a ratchet). When loaded heavy and cornering hard, the heavily loaded tooth disengagement is what you might sometimes feel or hear. It is NOTHING to worry about and very rare. Detroits don't break easily.
99% of the time you never know it's there except when you drive past your stuck 4x4 buddies without even shifting into 4wd.
Mine were in pickups and I do not powerslide pickups around corners. I would love to put one in either of our Camaros, though ('69 and '73). Many Ford musclecars came factory with the famous Detroit "No-Spin" Locker. Those cars took corners great and were the envy of us Chevy boys with our 12-bolt "posi" at the dragstrip. Far superior strength and traction when combined with a Ford 9 inch. And as a Camaro guy, I hate ferds... but give credit where credit is due!
Do they have quirks? I suppose. For instance, if your rear tires are not EXACTLY the same size or inflated to EXACTLY the same pressure, you will feel the locker every time you accelerate and fishtail a little. Doesn't take much genius to figure out why or what to do about it.
In YEARS of driving my old K20 Chevy with a Detroit in the Corporate 14 bolt, I had exactly 2 "WTF" moments. Nothing bad happened, but they got my attention and made me think I just left parts of my rearend scattered down the highway.
All it was was the locker disengaging one wheel to allow the different wheel speeds REQUIRED to take a corner. In those cases: A very hard corner (that's how they work: like a ratchet). When loaded heavy and cornering hard, the heavily loaded tooth disengagement is what you might sometimes feel or hear. It is NOTHING to worry about and very rare. Detroits don't break easily.
99% of the time you never know it's there except when you drive past your stuck 4x4 buddies without even shifting into 4wd.
My 97 pulling truck was the first 3:54 ratio 80, that Mark did.
Everything Billvo said about the way they act is correct, lol, but it did what it was supposed to, also.
Combine a DL with a tough clutch and 4000 rpm gov springs, wound for sound, on a P7100, and you have a very quirky combo, from a stop, then turn and accelerate. Snap, pop, lunge, bang, etc.
However, even after shattering the Moser axles, and numerous stockers, including a cryoed set, the DL, though scarred deeply, is still functioning on the track to this day.
Everything Billvo said about the way they act is correct, lol, but it did what it was supposed to, also.
Combine a DL with a tough clutch and 4000 rpm gov springs, wound for sound, on a P7100, and you have a very quirky combo, from a stop, then turn and accelerate. Snap, pop, lunge, bang, etc.
However, even after shattering the Moser axles, and numerous stockers, including a cryoed set, the DL, though scarred deeply, is still functioning on the track to this day.
Vaughn MacKenzie
TDR MEMBER
I just found this thread because I have the Dana 70 out of my '98 at a shop torn down at the moment. I had a Power Lok which I liked functionally but after only 50,000 miles after having it built it's totally wasted, no more clutch material, metal on metal. It was very reasonable driving and no racing or rodding the plates are totally wasted. I'm only making a measly 270 HP. Maybe it wasn't set up right from the get go but it was smooth, quiet, and provided terrific traction. The plates were stacked tight for good traction and I was pretty good about adding the friction modifier but I'm not happy about spending the $$$ to install the Power Lok and having it worn out in just a couple years.
So. . . how durable are Detroit lockers and do they use clutch disks that wear out? Do you add friction modifier? This time I want to "do it right" and not have to tear into it for another 100-150K miles at least.
Vaughn
So. . . how durable are Detroit lockers and do they use clutch disks that wear out? Do you add friction modifier? This time I want to "do it right" and not have to tear into it for another 100-150K miles at least.
Vaughn
Vaughn MacKenzie
TDR MEMBER
What's an E-locker, you mean activated electronically or pneumatically? This is going in a 2wd and don't want something like that.
An E-Locker, from what I understand, is like an ARB locker. Instead of a spool sliding in the differential by air, the E-Locker is locked in by a 12 volt source. When on the highway, you shut the E-Locker switch off and you have an open differential. When off-road, you turn the switch on and E-Locker is activated. You now have a locked differential, like an axle with a spool. Power will be at both axles at all time.
There are, or were, two versions of electric lockers on the market. One, the Eaton E-locker, ELocker Differentials is strictly open or locked, depending on where the driver sets the switch. Just like an ARB, but without requiring compressed air.
The other is a limited slip all the time, and fully locked when activated. The limited slip is supposed to be smooth and transparent enough for front axle use. Electric Traction Lock - Tech Articles - JP Magazine
As I recall, Eaton made the first one I described and the makers of the Detroit Locker, Tractech, made the second. But Eaton bought Tractech a few years back, I think, so I'm not real sure they are offering both styles still.
I could be wrong, but that's what I recall from some locker vs. limited slip investigation I did a couple years back when my Dodge's factory limited slip left me stranded and stuck one too many times.
The Tractech (Detroit) version was very interesting because a full-time limited slip with optional full-locker capability would not only get you out of trouble when combined with a Detroit No-Spin Locker in the rear axle (true, fully locked 4 wheel drive on demand), but it would help keep you out of trouble in the first place before you lost your momentum with the full-time limited slip up front.
"Full-time" meaning only when you have 4 wheel drive engaged, of course.
The other "money is no object" dream team combination would be a Detroit No-Spin in the rear and an OX or ARB up front. I like the OX design better. They cost the same, and all 3 offer no-compromise, true 4 wheel drive.
The thing about all lockers except the Lock-Right (light duty cars and trucks only and not very reputable), PowerTrax (much better IF you have a strong factory carrier to begin with), or a Detroit No-Spin (unless you have a GM Corporate 14 bolt), is that they require paying a shop to set them up. Unless, of course, you happen to be one of the few individuals with the expertise and tools needed to properly set up rearend gears.
That holds true for all limited slips, too, unless your's came factory, of course. But aside from an Auburn or Torsen (think Hummer), all limited slips have clutch packs that WILL wear out. Lockers don't really wear out. They either work or break. It is the "slippage" in limited slips that wears them out so fast.
News Flash: It looks like Auburn Gear is now offering an electric locker, too. Here's some comparison info on available electric lockers: Products | New Products
The other is a limited slip all the time, and fully locked when activated. The limited slip is supposed to be smooth and transparent enough for front axle use. Electric Traction Lock - Tech Articles - JP Magazine
As I recall, Eaton made the first one I described and the makers of the Detroit Locker, Tractech, made the second. But Eaton bought Tractech a few years back, I think, so I'm not real sure they are offering both styles still.
I could be wrong, but that's what I recall from some locker vs. limited slip investigation I did a couple years back when my Dodge's factory limited slip left me stranded and stuck one too many times.
The Tractech (Detroit) version was very interesting because a full-time limited slip with optional full-locker capability would not only get you out of trouble when combined with a Detroit No-Spin Locker in the rear axle (true, fully locked 4 wheel drive on demand), but it would help keep you out of trouble in the first place before you lost your momentum with the full-time limited slip up front.
"Full-time" meaning only when you have 4 wheel drive engaged, of course.
The other "money is no object" dream team combination would be a Detroit No-Spin in the rear and an OX or ARB up front. I like the OX design better. They cost the same, and all 3 offer no-compromise, true 4 wheel drive.
The thing about all lockers except the Lock-Right (light duty cars and trucks only and not very reputable), PowerTrax (much better IF you have a strong factory carrier to begin with), or a Detroit No-Spin (unless you have a GM Corporate 14 bolt), is that they require paying a shop to set them up. Unless, of course, you happen to be one of the few individuals with the expertise and tools needed to properly set up rearend gears.
That holds true for all limited slips, too, unless your's came factory, of course. But aside from an Auburn or Torsen (think Hummer), all limited slips have clutch packs that WILL wear out. Lockers don't really wear out. They either work or break. It is the "slippage" in limited slips that wears them out so fast.
News Flash: It looks like Auburn Gear is now offering an electric locker, too. Here's some comparison info on available electric lockers: Products | New Products
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Vaughn MacKenzie
TDR MEMBER
Thanks for the info SRath & JDK. I'm leaning toward a Detroit locker, while the part-time limited slip sounds nice I don't want to have stuff wearing out again. It sounds like the Detroit engages pretty easily so maybe it'll get you the traction quickly once you start spinning.
I have a Dana 70 in a 2wd truck. . . the biggest issue I see with a full locker is when the truck is loaded & towing a heavy trailer and you're accelerating from a stop around a corner. . . will it handle it? Will it be herky jerky time? Do I run the risk of breaking parts?
I have a Dana 70 in a 2wd truck. . . the biggest issue I see with a full locker is when the truck is loaded & towing a heavy trailer and you're accelerating from a stop around a corner. . . will it handle it? Will it be herky jerky time? Do I run the risk of breaking parts?
If you install a Tractech Detroit (No-Spin) Locker in your truck, Vaughn, there will be exactly ZERO engagement time. It is always locked 'n loaded! It just allows one wheel to spin faster on corners, but even that wheel is still being driven once it's speed again matches the other wheel's.
I heard the "differentiation" (what allows it to take corners) of the Detroit described once like this:
If you use a ratchet to tighten a bolt through a panel, and you are spinning the entire ratchet around and around (not ratcheting), that is "locked".
Now if someone got on the other side of the panel and started spinning the bolt the same direction, but faster, your ratchet mechanism would "allow" it to go faster and just click right along, but as soon as the other guy slowed to your speed, you would once again be turning the bolt.
And the PowerTrax is a very close copy of the Detroit. Same principle and high-quality components. But PowerTrax lockers are "lunchbox" design, meaning they drop into your existing carrier so you do not need to have your gears set up on an entirely new carrier.
This is both good and bad. It is GOOD because it enables the average joe to install them easily into an open factory carrier and keeps the cost down. (Note: due to the superb design and strength of the factory GM Corporate 14 bolt rearend, Detroit Lockers install exactly the same easy "lunchbox" way into the stock carrier, but ONLY on the 14 bolt. ALL other rearends MUST install a complete carrier unit to install a Detroit. That is also why a Detroit Locker for a GM 14 bolt is about half the price of a Detroit Locker for any other axle. ) The GM Corporate full-floating, 10 1/2 inch ring gear, 14 Bolt rearend is very similar in size, but superior in design and strength, to the Dana 70. Do not confuse it with the more recent and wimpy semi-floating 9 inch GM 14 bolt. (Boo, Hiss!! another great reputation ruined by today's idiot engineers and bean-counters! #@$%! )
A "lunchbox locker" can be BAD if your factory open carrier is somewhat weak in design to begin with and then cannot handle the stress and strain of a fully-locked, 100% of the power to both wheels, full-traction from both wheels design. Many weaker or marginal factory carriers break when subjected to full power and traction from two wheels. This where the "bad reputation" of "lunchbox lockers" comes from. It isn't the PowerTrax that breaks, it is the factory parts they were installed into.
On a Dana 60, 70, or massive 80, such factory carrier weakness is NOT an issue. Those babies are STRONG like the GM 14 bolt. So a PowerTrax works well in them.
I heard the "differentiation" (what allows it to take corners) of the Detroit described once like this:
If you use a ratchet to tighten a bolt through a panel, and you are spinning the entire ratchet around and around (not ratcheting), that is "locked".
Now if someone got on the other side of the panel and started spinning the bolt the same direction, but faster, your ratchet mechanism would "allow" it to go faster and just click right along, but as soon as the other guy slowed to your speed, you would once again be turning the bolt.
And the PowerTrax is a very close copy of the Detroit. Same principle and high-quality components. But PowerTrax lockers are "lunchbox" design, meaning they drop into your existing carrier so you do not need to have your gears set up on an entirely new carrier.
This is both good and bad. It is GOOD because it enables the average joe to install them easily into an open factory carrier and keeps the cost down. (Note: due to the superb design and strength of the factory GM Corporate 14 bolt rearend, Detroit Lockers install exactly the same easy "lunchbox" way into the stock carrier, but ONLY on the 14 bolt. ALL other rearends MUST install a complete carrier unit to install a Detroit. That is also why a Detroit Locker for a GM 14 bolt is about half the price of a Detroit Locker for any other axle. ) The GM Corporate full-floating, 10 1/2 inch ring gear, 14 Bolt rearend is very similar in size, but superior in design and strength, to the Dana 70. Do not confuse it with the more recent and wimpy semi-floating 9 inch GM 14 bolt. (Boo, Hiss!! another great reputation ruined by today's idiot engineers and bean-counters! #@$%! )
A "lunchbox locker" can be BAD if your factory open carrier is somewhat weak in design to begin with and then cannot handle the stress and strain of a fully-locked, 100% of the power to both wheels, full-traction from both wheels design. Many weaker or marginal factory carriers break when subjected to full power and traction from two wheels. This where the "bad reputation" of "lunchbox lockers" comes from. It isn't the PowerTrax that breaks, it is the factory parts they were installed into.
On a Dana 60, 70, or massive 80, such factory carrier weakness is NOT an issue. Those babies are STRONG like the GM 14 bolt. So a PowerTrax works well in them.
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Vaughn, doing 2w burnouts in 3rd with a 5 speed, the Detroit, was constantly trying to swap ends. But no 1 wheel peel!!slippery turn, be careful.
A friend of mine told me he had a Dl in his truck when he bought it. I watched him on the pulling track and decided it was broken. I did a 400 foot burnout in front of my house, ONE tire, spinning whole time.
My friend, I hate to break this to you, but you have a broken axle, or your Detroit Locker is not a Detroit afterall. Turned out it wasn't.
A Detroit will spin both tires all the time. Oo.
A friend of mine told me he had a Dl in his truck when he bought it. I watched him on the pulling track and decided it was broken. I did a 400 foot burnout in front of my house, ONE tire, spinning whole time.
My friend, I hate to break this to you, but you have a broken axle, or your Detroit Locker is not a Detroit afterall. Turned out it wasn't.
A Detroit will spin both tires all the time. Oo.
Vaughn doesn't have a 4x4, Billvo. But you are right about not being able to turn with a lockered front. However, a selectable locker up front is great for hardcore wheeling. Straight ahead is usually better than stuck. A transparent limited slip is better than an open diff. But if all you do is street driving, then forget either one in a front axle. You don't need it and won't like it.
A Detroit in the rear is a whole different matter. They're great!
As Sled's post illustrates, many of the old wive's tales you hear about Detroits and other lockers are from guys who only THINK they have or had one and really don't.
BTW: I always figured "old wives tale's (tails)" meant something that grew all out of proportion as time goes on. Being a married man, I now know I was right...
:-laf
A Detroit in the rear is a whole different matter. They're great!
As Sled's post illustrates, many of the old wive's tales you hear about Detroits and other lockers are from guys who only THINK they have or had one and really don't.
BTW: I always figured "old wives tale's (tails)" meant something that grew all out of proportion as time goes on. Being a married man, I now know I was right...
:-laf- Status
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
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