Diagnose stalling and black smoke at idle

[millioncummins]

I have a 2003 Ram 3500 5.9 that just had an engine install but having an issue running need help! It is a 4x4 automatic with a 47re transmission. The engine was originally a 305 (correction it was a 250 SO) block with a Bullydog. The engine I had installed is a 325 with coated pistons and 12 valve rods for strength. I put a new Industrial Injection Turbo on it new TDM 80HP injectors with Bosch OEM connecting tubes. I hooked up the bully dog to make sure it is in stock mode only. The truck starts right up but has black smoke at idle and dies after about 3 minutes. If I hold the throttle above 1500RPM it will stay running. In the video it looks like white smoke but its black. I have also attached a video of a data stream from my Actron OBDII just in case that helps. The current codes are (6: Driver Squib Open/ this code was there before the engine install) (25: Left Front Circuit Malfunction) (21: Right Front Circuit Malfunction) (84: Mismatched Vehicle Identification Number) (P0107: Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Voltage Low) This is the only one that I think is related to the issue. Things that have been done to test. 1. New lift pump with sump installed and does not lose low fuel pressure. 2. FCA swapped out. 3. Rail pressure sensor swapped out 4. Map sensor swapped out.(the one on the manifold not the IAT sensor on the intake tube by the air filter) 5. Injectors and connector tubes removed and re-torqued according to the ft lb's in service manual.

Will put the links to the videos on as soon as the website will let me. it is on Youtube if you search
2003 Ram 3500 5.9 cummins stalling diagnoses issue HELP

ADDED

The engine I got was a brand new long block 325 and ONLY long block no sensors, no turbo, no electronics just the block and head. Everything from my truck was transferred to the new block and head including electronics and harness. EXCEPT turbo, injectors, and connecting tubes. I bought an industrial injection turbo specifically for a 2003 and injectors for a 04.5-07 to match the piston bowls in the 325 block.

Here is the video of the truck running

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm__mDSUzMY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4-gyJvPCw8

 

[cerberusiam]

" Mismatched Vehicle Identification Number"

You used the ECU and all the modules from the 03, correct? FYI, you will never get it to not smoke part of the time without custom tuning on that swap.

Not sure what TDM injectors are. New unmolested injectors as a rule only come from Bosch, even with new bodies if the nozzles have been touched problems can ensue.

 

[millioncummins]

Yes I used all the same computer modules from the 2003. The only things that are different are the 325 motor, the turbo, the injectors and connector tubes.

TDM is Torque Diesel Motorsports
http://www.torquedieselmotorsports.com

I realize the only way to get new is directly from Bosch. At least from what I have been reading.

When you say you will never get it to not smoke with my swap do you mean because I am using a 325 engine with 325 pistons with a 305 ECU? The guy that I had install the engine says it shouldn't smoke at idle at all and recommend not even driving it because he feels that it could be catastrophic under load? I know he personally has an 03 auto with a 325 in it and his doesn't smoke at idle but I don't know what injectors he has.

 

[cerberusiam]

It is hazing pretty hard, unless it is pretty cold that is not right. Looks pretty typical though for a 325 engine in a 305 truck, they haze because of the timing and event differences between the 2 designs. You can use a 305 in a 325 setup with few issues but going the other way has traditionally not been good results.

Can you clear the codes? Do they just come back? What is rail pressure reading at idle?

Check the rail pressure plug and make sure it is seated the correct way, they can be put in backwards and that will mess things up. The dying after 2 minutes is probably the mismatched VIN somewhere, what is the exact code? With the unknown quantity in the injectors it is hard to tell if it is electronic or hard parts problems. If those are reman injectors, highly suspect. If they are new bodies with nozzles still high on suspect list if you cannot find any othe rissues.

 

[millioncummins]

Yes I clear the codes and they immediately return before even starting the truck. The VIN mismatch is code 84. The only reason I don't feel the VIN mismatch is related to the stalling is because I can keep the truck running by just holding the RPM above 1500. If the ECU was telling the truck to shut down I would think giving it more throttle would not help. It seems like after setting the truck will go about 3 minutes and the second and the more times you start it the less amount of time it will stay running like 1:30 2:00 after the first start. I would assume if it was an ECU VIN mismatch shutting it down it would consistently shut down around the same time and giving it throttle shouldn't help.

I have not been able to read rail pressure because my Actron won't show it. That's the next thing I want to check I can't look at the truck till Tuesday but I plan to hook my CTS Edge up to get the rail pressure I'm not really expecting to see much from that on start up since it starts up quick but I can check to see if it falls off right before it dies. I don't think it's the connector tubes for the same reason that it starts up and because I personally put the injectors and connector tubes in before the engine was installed and followed the service manual to the EXACT TEE for the steps and the ft lbs and after the guy installed the engine he thought the same thing so he retorqued them also already and didn't help. The rail pressure sensor has been swapped out with a known good one but I will double-check to make sure it is connected properly.

The guy that installed the engine thinks that it is either an issue with the ECU being bad or the injectors/pistons being a mismatch. The block is a 325 block but I was never able to visually confirm that it has 04.5 pistons. I will be pulling the injectors to count the pin holes on the nozzle to confirm they are 04.5. and possibly get a boriscope camera that can fit in there to confirm the pistons are correct. I just feel that the issues are neither the injectors pistons or ECU and that it is directly related to the p0107 code for intake manifold pressure sensor low voltage unless a bad ECU is the reason I have that code.

 

[cerberusiam]

That sounds like a typical VIN mismatch problem, steadily decreasing run time at idle the more starts. Could be a limp mode process to allow driving it back at limited performance by giving it throttle, never really tried that. Entirely possible the ECU is bad and the source of the codes. Really hard to tell without factory scanner.

Code 84 isn't vlaid unless in is expressed in hex. It should be Pxxxx format unless that is kicking back from the PCM then it may be correct.

 

[millioncummins]

This is the code.

 

[sag2]

A start and die within 2 seconds would result if the VIN mismatch was the problem. If the ECM was from the truck you have now it should still work. The fueling might be off but it should not cause it to die. You need to figure out the MAP sensor code first, I would not be too concerned with the mismatch code unless the ECM is from another truck.

 

[millioncummins]

Yea that's what I'm hoping with the VIN mismatch if it was the issue I would think it would shut down pretty quick. I also believe the map sensor code is the root cause to my issues and want to get that fixed first and foremost. I ordered an 03 Powertrain diagnostic manual from Mopar Tech Authority and hopefully I will be able to use to track down a bad wiring connection or bad ground somewhere or at least be able to rule out the possibility of wiring before ordering a $650 ECM.

 

[cerberusiam]

Looks like that is an ABS mismatch on the VIN, annoying but should not be terminal. The MAP code is probably the source of the problem, finding it will be the trick if there is not something obvious.

 

[TCDiesel]

I'm with cerb ,the mismatch is bothersome, it will cause codes ABS ETC. cross-breeding is a nightmare in any common rail in most cases. You can tune many problems away when used in competition ,Race , Off-road , But DD use will be a PITA. You also have the PCM/ECM Bus problem when dropping form 04.5 motors to 2003 AT.

 

[millioncummins]

When I ordered this engine I didn't want a 325 I wanted the same 305 that it had previously. The guy I ordered it from sent me a 325 and just acted like it was no big deal he does it all the time. I don't understand why it should be an issue though? It's not like I'm using an 04.5 ECM in the truck it's simply a 325 engine with all the same exact parts and ECU as before dropping the 325 in it other than the fact that I'm using 04.5 injectors. Once I fix this map code issue what kind of issues am I looking at because it's a 325??

 

[cerberusiam]

Unfortunately, it is not the same parts as the original engine and that is where the issues are. It's not just the spray angle on the injector nozzles that is different, the piston bowls are different in how the injection charge gets dispersed and the injection event occurs. Pilot event, timing, main event, duration are all different between the 2 engine designs. When you start crossing the hardware with the software the precision they were designed to work with correctly is lost. The 325 engine will run in the 305 platform, just not correctly.

 

[sag2]

So to be clear, you have 325 engine with 325 pistons and injectors, but you have 305 ECM? If that is correct it will not run correctly. You will need the Pistons, injectors, and ECM from the same model year.