Did I screw up with the SRW

[klenger]

FWIW, AZ and CO do not plate non-comercial pick-up trucks for weight. My registration shows 0000's in the weight field.

 

[DPelletier]

Really? How do they enforce that? If your truck is plated for 15,000 lbs and the trailer plated for another 20,000, how can they tell you that you're overloaded?



Granted, we both know truck and trailer would likely be both overloaded at that weight, but how can they prove it if you're plated for more than your GVWRs?

- Registration for a certain weight or "plating" for a certain weight is a tax issue and nothing more



- Manufacturer's GVWR, GAWR, Tire ratings, etc. are a safety issue not a taxation issue.



Obviously both the law and compliance issues vary from state to state and country to country. What I can tell you is that RV's can and have been ticketed in British Columbia for being over the manufacturer's GVWR. Some places may not care about the GVWR and only about licencing, but unless you plan on driving around solely in your home state, its something to be aware of.



Dave

 

[RustyJC]

Granted, we both know truck and trailer would likely be both overloaded at that weight, but how can they prove it if you're plated for more than your GVWRs?

Some states look at the GVWR/GAWR sticker in the driver's door jamb and the GVWR sticker on the front of the 5th wheel RV and enforce the GVWRs. Others go by individual GAWRs from these stickers. Yet others go by load ratings on the tires on each axle to calculate maximum permissible load on each axle.



IIRC, Iowa and Wisconsin are two states that come to mind from the recent past that have been cracking down on 3/4 ton/SRW trucks pulling large 5th wheel RVs.



Rusty

 

[CTD 600]

"And remember, it's not what you can pull, it's what you can safely STOP. "



Very True!



I will tow it even if it is illegal, a dually is overrated. As long as you take it nice and easy nobody is going to give you a problem. The engine can handle it. That should be the first concern.



If I was a full time RVer I would get a dually. But until then, I can't see buying dually for towing a 5er 6 times a year.



LA traffic is not worth the wide body. Just be glad you didn't get a Chevy or GMC becuase their wheel wells are built into the the pickup bed now. If you ding the wheel well really bad you will have to replace the whole bed! That's Crap!

 

[10.5 Dave]

I had a scary experience in my SRW Dmax that lead to the purchase of my CTD dually. Had a case of the tail wagging the dog on a wet road. The trailer wanted to go straight in a curve. Almost put the truck in the ditch with 4 people in the truck and $150,000 worth of corvettes in the trailer. I babied it home and went shopping for a dually.

You can airbag and do whatever else but it's still not as safe as a dually. The difference in stability is amazing.

 

[BHolm]

I suppose I should throw in my $. 02 on this one since I have one of each. Most of the time the dually is no more stable than the srw. Mine tow near max gcvw all the time. The loads are often tall and wide and are pulled through some open country with plenty of wind. The dually is a little better and future work trucks will probably all be dually's. For my personal use though, no way is the bulk of the dually worth it. The srw will pull just as much. My experience has been that the authorities are most concerned with tax collection, safety has always been secondary. They will want to see the rig licensed for the wieght and they will likely check the tires for wieght rating. Beyond that I have never had a problem with a DOT guy questioning the trucks gvw rating. Since mine run commercial, they are subject to DOT stops, and they do stop us



My advise is to run a srw because it fits most of your driving. If you need more capacity in back I would look into the 19. 5" wheels and tires. They definately add the load capacity and reportedly add quite a bit of stability as well.

 

[DPelletier]

I guess I lied when I said I wasn't going to get into another DRW vs. SRW "discussion"; the last couple of posts made me want to respond.



- If you don't need a DRW for your load, then don't buy one, BUT I also have both and the DRW isn't " a little better" as far as stability with a large load at highway speeds, its a LOT better.



As I said in a post on another site, there are only two schools of thought on this issue;



- There are those that want the best tow vehicle for thier heavy trailer/RV/Etc. and are willing to put up with the real and percieved DRW "issues" during regular day to day use or;



- there are the others that are primarily concerned with day to day ease and performance and will put up with having a lesser tow vehicle for the comparitively less time spent towing.



I know which catagory I fall in to. I recommend a DRW truck to anyone hauling a mid size or larger slide in camper and any 5th wheel or bumper pull trailer that will put the truck over 10,000 lbs GVWR (all loaded up with passengers, etc. )

Do what you will.



Dave

 

[CajunDieselMan]

Buying a vehicle is a series of compromises. You'll never get exactly what you need or want. I wanted a dually, but couldn't fit it in the parking garage. So I park at work more than I tow a trailer, therefore I chose to limit the size of my RV and get a SRW. It's mostly determining what is the lesser of two evils. So you buy a Corvette because you want a sports car... wouldn't you rather be driving a Ferrari? You compromise because of cost.

 

[RustyJC]

..... therefore I chose to limit the size of my RV and get a SRW.

An intelligent compromise. Congratulations!



Rusty

 

[JStraw]

The way I look at it, is to apply the 20% rule. What this means is if your fully loaded up truck and trailer tow weight is within the upper 20% of your rating, then you should be using a better tow vehicle. Just because a sticker says you can tow up to 21 or 23 thousand pounds, doesn't mean it's safe to constantly do so. There are just as many drw drivers reaching their upper gcvwr as there are srw drivers. And you all know who you are. So, to nay say about one while taxing your own limits is silly. I think the only ones who would have a valid say are those that are utilizing MDT's. They've stepped up to the plate to ensure that safety and capability is achieved.



One other point is the trailer. A triple axle can distribute the weight better with a lighter pin weight than a double axle. And, it gives you another set of brakes to stop the load.



If your going to stand on the side of safety for large RV's, then recommend an MDT. Our little haulers can't compare. Can our trucks tow heavy weight??? Sure they can! Is it safe??? You decide.



I wrote this not to flame or inflame, but to inspire a train of thought that safety is better achieved by a larger truck towing a lighter weight. Hence the adage "Go big or stay at home".



Besides, PeterBuilt, Sterling and Western Star are DC vehicles, just like our Rams.

 

[RustyJC]

There are just as many drw drivers reaching their upper gcvwr as there are srw drivers. And you all know who you are.

So, GCWR is the only criteria? A given 5th wheel can be within the GCWR of a given 2500 and 3500, but the 2500 would be well over its GVWR while the 3500 would not be. Are you saying there's no fundamental difference between these 2 trucks?

Besides, PeterBuilt, Sterling and Western Star are DC vehicles, just like our Rams.

Peterbilt? When did DC purchase Paccar?



Rusty

 

[JStraw]

So, GCWR is the only criteria? A given 5th wheel can be within the GCWR of a given 2500 and 3500, but the 2500 would be well over its GVWR while the 3500 would not be. Are you saying there's no fundamental difference between these 2 trucks?

Peterbilt? When did DC purchase Paccar?



Rusty

One more time ... What I'm saying is towing heavy with any vehicle close to or over its ratings isn't good (safety wise).



How much does your setup weigh fully loaded? Are you within 20% of your max? You've got a heavy rig to be towing about with that 3500. 13650 dry trailer weight + 7500 dry for the truck is about at the max rating empty.





Peterbuilt is my bad, I meant to type frieghtliner.

 

[RustyJC]

Yep, GCWR on my truck is 21,500 lbs. Is your point that I would be just as safe (or unsafe) if I were using a 2500 (which, by the way, was not available with a 21,500 lb GCWR)? Oh, and where do you come up with the magic 20% that we should stay under our ratings?



If you're REALLY that concerned, send me your $100,000 contribution and I'll run down and order that 335 Pete crew cab this afternoon! :-laf



#ad




Rusty

 

[JStraw]

Yep, GCWR on my truck is 21,500 lbs. Is your point that I would be just as safe (or unsafe) if I were using a 2500 (which, by the way, was not available with a 21,500 lb GCWR)? Oh, and where do you come up with the magic 20% that we should stay under our ratings?



If you're REALLY that concerned, send me your $100,000 contribution and I'll run down and order that 335 Pete crew cab this afternoon!



Rusty

My point is that towing at or over weight... either with a 1500, 2500 or 3500 is unsafe. Heck, look what some people strap to their cars and zip on down the road.



If I had 18000 lbs of trailer I sure wouldn't be using a 3500.



I got the 20% from a thread posting on IRV2.com which I believe you moderate. Actually it was posted as 25% by one of your forums members which you didn't post a disagreement towards. So, seeing how you speak openly about safety and didn't debuttal you member, I took it as gospel



Honestly though, you could get a used but certified MDT for the same price we paid for our 3500s. Yes, I like new toys too, but, I wouldn't use it enough to justify puchasing a new one.

 

[RustyJC]

My point is that towing at or over weight... either with a 1500, 2500 or 3500 is unsafe. Heck, look what some people strap to their cars and zip on down the road.



If I had 18000 lbs of trailer I sure wouldn't be using a 3500.

GVWR on our 5th wheel is 16,000 lbs. Our situation is not nearly so bad as the V-10 F250 pulling the 19,999 lb GVWR tandem dually 39' Mountain Aire I saw recently - which was MY point.

I got the 20% from a thread posting on IRV2.com which I believe you moderate. Actually it was posted as 25% by one of your forums members which you didn't post a disagreement towards. So, seeing how you speak openly about safety and didn't debuttal you member, I took it as gospel

Opinions are like bellybuttons. Everyone has at least one. My role as a moderator on iRV2.com is not to force conformance to MY opinions. That member is free to share his thoughts regarding a 20-25% "buffer", but silence on my part does not signify agreement.

Honestly though, you could get a used but certified MDT for the same price we paid for our 3500s. Yes, I like new toys too, but, I wouldn't use it enough to justify puchasing a new one.

If I can find the right one for the right price, I might well purchase it. Most of the crew cab MDTs set up for RV pulling that I see advertised in reasonable condition, though, are in the $60K and up range.



Rusty

 

[JStraw]

GVWR on our 5th wheel is 16,000 lbs. Our situation is not nearly so bad as the V-10 F250 pulling the 19,999 lb GVWR tandem dually 39' Mountain Aire I saw recently - which was MY point.

Rusty

Not being nearly as bad as someone else still doesn't mean its safe. Over is over.

Opinions are like bellybuttons. Everyone has at least one. My role as a moderator on iRV2.com is not to force conformance to MY opinions. That member is free to share his thoughts regarding a 20-25% "buffer", but silence on my part does not signify agreement.

Rusty

Strange you should say these things after all the safety related stances you've taken on this forum. If you felt it was wrong you always spoke out.

 

[DPelletier]

JStraw,



Not everyone with a DRW needs a MDT. I'm at 18,600 lbs GCW all loaded up. I bought the dually for its 12,000 GVWR after realizing that my '01. 5 SRW was about 3,000 lbs over its GVWR.

I think what you were saying is that there are as many overloaded SRW trucks as DRW trucks?



Dave

 

[RustyJC]

Not being nearly as bad as someone else still doesn't mean its safe. Over is over.

You really believe that (let's say) a 21,500 GCWR dually that's 1000 lbs over GCWR is just as unsafe as that F250 pulling a 19,999 lb GVWR 5th wheel? A truck 1 lb under GCWR is safe but the same truck 1 lb over GCWR is unsafe? Even before I resigned from the weight police, I wouldn't have proposed THAT!!

Strange you should say these things after all the safety related stances you've taken on this forum. If you felt it was wrong you always spoke out.

Yes, the role of a moderator is different than the role of a forum participant. I'm a moderator over there. I'm a forum participant over here. Two different hats.



Where you'll most frequently find the 20-25% rating buffer discussed on iRV2.com is in the pop-up forum where folks are towing with minivans, small SUVs and other vehicles that were not designed for continuous heavy-duty service. In those cases, I can understand why some of the pop-up folks wouldn't want to use all the rating capacity. Our trucks, however, are a little different matter. They are built to work, and if Dodge says I can tow at 21,500 lbs GCW, I have a reasonable expectation that they've sized the applicable components for that service and have field tested the trucks to the extent that they have some degree of comfort that they're going to at least get through the warranty period. Quite a different story from the Dodge Caravans towing pop-ups that fail automatic transmissions with disappointing regularity.



Rusty

 

[JStraw]

JStraw,

I think what you were saying is that there are as many overloaded SRW trucks as DRW trucks?



Dave

Exactamundo. If I had an extra 4-5K capacity I sure as shoot'n would use up. It's our human nature to push the edge. Those high dollar luxury coaches are heavyweights. Take a peek at one's specs. It sure suprised me.

 

[JStraw]

You really believe that !!

Rusty

Yes I do. A hazard is a hazard no matter what color it's painted.