Did the government really have to do this...

[RustyJC]

Re: Even

Originally posted by Champane Flight

No pictures, put the bodys on display in Baghdad. Let the people come in and see for themselves.

Yes, that's much more civilized and humane, isn't it?



Rusty

 

[Champane Flight]

Want

The people that want to have proof need only to go see for themselves. The people that don't, won't. Humane has nothing to do with it. Holding ourselves to a higher moral standard does, this has nothing to do with us, we and the rest of the world have no right to view the bodys, the people of Iraq do... .

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Originally posted by merryman

There are very good OBJECTIVE reasons for the display



1. There are large groups of Iraqi people with a vested interest in restoring the Saddam dictatorship

a. people such as ranking military people, members of the elite groups such as the republican guard, members of the Baath party, etc,-------all of whom enjoyed great advantage so long as they were part of the control group. They could take what they pleased from the regular people of the country and there could be no complaint; they shared in the wealth denied regular citizens.

They have all lost that now, but as long as they thought there was a chance that either;

ii. We could be persuaded to turn tail and run if they caused the loss of enough of our people, or

Saddam and crowd might get back in power,

they had incentive to fight on and to incite others to fight on.



Displaying these bodies (as proof that it actually was these two thugs, proof that they would accept because they knew and would recognize them, and not just a false claim ) cuts into that incentive to fight and to try to incite others to fight on.



b. Our forces are trying to gain the cooperation of the Iraqi people for many reasons---especially their assistance in finding the big three (now big one), weapons etc,

Many of those people have seen that in the past Saddam and sons were great at staging comebacks. So long as they had fear Saddam and the Baaths might return, they would be more afraid to cooperate and assist our forces.



Seeing that the two sons of a , er I mean the two sons of Saddam, will NOT return to torture and kill and rape, they can now be less afraid and therefor more likely to give the help we would like.



For both these groups, a mere claim by us that we had destroyed thses two mad dogs would very likely been met with disbelief.

Seeing the bodies, recognizing them as in fact these two, will serve both the above purposes.



There was no evil, insensitive or immoral motive-------simply the practical, and perhaps, the ONLY way that each of these groups would in fact KNOW that these two are dead and that it was not a emply claim by the USA.



Vaughn

GREAT Post/Answer. My thoughts exactly!

 

[illflem]

I have no problem with it

Why not, we did it before

On the morning after Mussolini and his mistress were slain, the partisans who killed them dumped their bodies in front of a garage in Milan's Piazzale Loreto. Eventually, the two mutilated bodies were strung upside down by occupying US troops for everyone to see. For hours the crowd jeered and spat at Mussolini's body. Here's the picture, you don't have look if it bothers you

#ad




The claim that the pictured American soldiers were executed was later refuted by the prisoners who survived the same battle. All released US prisoners in Iraq have reported that they were treated well. Goes right there along with the Jessica Lynch propaganda.



Side effect of Saddam's sons deaths- 31 Iraqis were killed and 76 wounded by celebratory gunfire (firing guns in the air, bullets coming down) in Bagdad.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/26/1059084255092.html

 

[Boomer II]

Hell's Bell's CF, nobody can convince you of anything, what makes you think we could convince all the Iraqi's of anything?

 

[RustyJC]

Let Me Be Sure I Have This Right....

So it's OK to hang the bodies from a lamppost or pitch them out on the street or, heck, impale them on a stick and let anybody (not just Iraqis - don't you think that the Arab news services will have the cameras rolling?) parade by who wants to? That's more acceptable than showing photographs of the bodies in a "sterile" mortuary setting?



Am I the only one who's struggling with this line of "logic"?



Rusty

 

[Boomer II]

Rusty, logic? NOT!! It boils down to this, plain and simple. THEY HATE PRESIDENT BUSH! Nothing he says or does is gonna get it, he could personally cut the throat of Saddam and Osama and the liberal world would be outraged. Talking to these folks is interesting, but much like trying to tell my teenage daughter something.

 

[merryman]

Sure CF, in a country as large a California, and where very few people have the means to travel, they will all come to a single location to see if they believe its them??????

Maybe we should have tied them over a donkey and led it throughout thed country... ..... scheeessss!!!!!!!



In displaying these bodies, a legitimate purpose was served; proof to a group(s) who would not likely have otherwise believed them dead.



Their display of our dead troups served no legitimate purpose.

just like all the senseless criticisims of the Bush administration we see on here... ... . well the irresponsible criticism we see here does serve to suggest to the opposition in Iraq that they sould keep on fighting because they have helpers here who might continue to try to get Bush to back out of the country, which would then lead terror groups everywhere to think it would be a return to the Clinton practice of allowing terrorist to attack us at will without fear of retaliation.

Its enough to make one give up on the power of logic!



Vaughn

 

[Champane Flight]

Win?

Point one, you will never convince all the people of the deaths of the boys. Point two, I don't hate Bush, I just think he is an idiot. Point three, Clinton didn't send 150,000 men into a occupation and commit America into a bloody free for all for the next ten to twenty years. Point four, you do not allow cameras into the building the body's are in. Logic is not available for one dimensional thinkers. Bush is a one dimensional thinker also. No plan B, no exit. Senseless criticism? No not if you really use your senses.

 

[merryman]

See what I mean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Vaughn

 

[Boomer II]

Re read my post above.

 

[lschultz]

Post deleted

Please refrain from personal attacks

 

[Champane Flight]

Is it?

Is it just my imagination or is this line of thought coming mostly from the Fox/Texan crowd? They have a propaganda machine down there rival to only N. Korea.

 

[Shrimpy]

Ol' CF DREAMS of being able to call himself a TEXAN. He dreams about it constantly, but then ol PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH appears and slaps him down... .....





Quick, man the borders, he may try to sneak in next...

 

[merryman]

Nope, not from the fox/texans, rather from those who place the interest of the country above petty lets get Bush politics.



Remember one of your own major liberal columnist described the things posted on here by the Bush bashers as "juvenile" efforts to "manufacture scandal" on Bush;



Think a little CF

Would major liberals like--

the Washington Times columnist (described your claims as juvenile)

Former Cinton adviser Dick Morris (described your claims as silly)

Former NYC Mayor Kock

Former Clinton Sec. of State Allbright (said WMDs and their spread were THE GRAVEST DANGER FACING THIS NATION)

and legions of other libs (who are not running against Bush, or in a state a pathological hatred--and nope, they NEVER admit its hatred that drives them, its always superior intellect etc. )--



All be dismissing the kinds of claims you make on here if there was even a little bit to them; come on in out of left field. Maybe even due the 12 step program described on this forum!Oo.



Vaughn

 

[Champane Flight]

When the truth

When the truth comes out on ole GW, I hope you guys have a taste for feathers. Or even a worse scenario, after ten years of losing men and still no concrete government in Iraq, a loud POP... .



Like I said before, I don't hate Bush. I am sure he would be fine as a ranch foreman or a greeter at Wal-mart. He just isn't very good at the job he holds.



I have to address a statement made before by Merryone. The pictures of our dead soldiers was done in the same mentality as us posting pics of Saddam's critters. All done to show the brutality and how one side or the other is winning. In other words, to instill fear in the other side. :{

 

[Boomer II]

Re: When the truth

Originally posted by Champane Flight



I have to address a statement made before by Merryone. The pictures of our dead soldiers was done in the same mentality as us posting pics of Saddam's critters. All done to show the brutality and how one side or the other is winning. In other words, to instill fear in the other side. :{ [/B]

The US has had ample opportunity to post pix of dead Iraqis long before the brothers bought it. As far as your comments about the truth coming out, bring it on, I don't fear the truth, I welcome it.

 

[illflem]

You'll have to admit that Uday and Qusay put up a fight worthy of a Hollywood movie, almost like the time wounded Rambo beat an entire Soviet tank division with a bow and arrow.



More than 200 US Airborne troops equipped with TOW missiles and six OH-58 D Kiowa attack helicopters were pushed back three times in the course of the six hour battle.

A-10 'tankbuster' Warthog support aircraft were called upon but use was deemed inappropriate due to the likelihood of collateral damage to the highly populated neighborhood.

The unfortified home was defended by three adults with AK-47s and an unarmed 14 year old teenager. The informant who directed troops to the site informed US officers that the home only contained the four lightly armed individuals.

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2003/tr20030723-0443.html



Makes me wonder how well our military would perform if they ever have to fight a real army.

 

[big jake 1]

Originally posted by illflem

Makes me wonder how well our military would perform if they ever have to fight a real army.

That has been a real concern of many people ever since



FORMER PREZ BILLY BOB



downsized the military to a skeleton of what it once was so that troop rotation to give this volunteer military force a break from combat.



GWB is doing his best to rebuild our military forces and try to get the pay scale for those in harms way increased.



illflem:



how would you prepare our military to perform if they ever had to fight a real army??





big jake



THE FORD GUY



Oo. Oo. Oo.

 

[merryman]

Its not a sporting match where we make sure each side has an even break; the point is to kill the bad guys as quickly and with as little danger to our guys as possible. And of course they would accept the word of a bystander as to what/who they were up against.



It amazing how some are so superior to others who have achieved so much more! Even when their own call their position "juvenile" efforts to "manufacture scandal" and "silly". Ah, well, I guess guys like Dick Morris who has made fortunes using his brains must be an "idiot" also. And then there is Monsoor Ijaz, a former Clinton supporter (gave enough to sleep in the Lincoln bedroom), and who travels freely in the Arab world and shares the same opinion of the drivel we see on here as Morris and the lib columnist, but then I guess even though he is a self made multi-millioniar, he too, must be an idiot. Guess a bunch of us must be idiots----all but a few very superior folks who know so much more than anyone with international sources, and of course one would NEVER accept anything the intelligence community said----they are for sure either crooks or idiots.



My god, we must be a terribly inferior country to have been using such information for years to run much of our affairs; why its no wonder that we are inferior to countries like Iran, and Cuba and Russia, and for sure France. Ah well, maybe when we learn to listen to those who are so wise without benifit of vast achievment, we will do better and be able to measure up to those superior countries.



Vaughn