Here I am

Did the government really have to do this...

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I feel compelled to jump in...

1. Yes,posting the pics was necessary. Show the world what a bunch of rotten *******s Saddam and his sons were. Show them what happens when you support and commit twrrorism. I have no sympathy for the bleeding hearts. We lost 3000 people in the WTC attacks; We are still behind on the score.

2. Yes, there may be others who might be able to do a better job than GWB, but consider this; we are in the middle of a BRAND NEW type of warfare. one in which integrity and honor are weak, "womenly" (Mid eastern view, not mine) traits. They are the biggest cowards the world has seen, and I fear there will be worse to come in future generations. I have never been in the military, or to war, so I wont comment a whole lot on what I know nothing about. I think GW is doing a LOT better job than the liberal, tree-f***ing, pansy Gore would have ever done. THank you Billy Jeff, for making us look like a nation of cowards. Thanks to your windy yellow-belliedness, we now have a tough time ahead of us. Had you had the nuts to do half of why you claimed we would do, we would not be in this mess.



Of course, Bush has to make up a few rules as he goes along- this is a new era in history, with no precedence to rely on. Shoot all the cowardly religious fanatics, and plaster their faces on TV, newspaper, etc. Let's show the world we wont take any BS from them.
 
Originally posted by illflem



Makes me wonder how well our military would perform if they ever have to fight a real army.



I'd like to be there when you said this to somebody that was over there, should be an interesting show.
 
Originally posted by illflem

You'll have to admit that Uday and Qusay put up a fight worthy of a Hollywood movie, almost like the time wounded Rambo beat an entire Soviet tank division with a bow and arrow.



More than 200 US Airborne troops equipped with TOW missiles and six OH-58 D Kiowa attack helicopters were pushed back three times in the course of the six hour battle.

A-10 'tankbuster' Warthog support aircraft were called upon but use was deemed inappropriate due to the likelihood of collateral damage to the highly populated neighborhood.

The unfortified home was defended by three adults with AK-47s and an unarmed 14 year old teenager. The informant who directed troops to the site informed US officers that the home only contained the four lightly armed individuals.

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2003/tr20030723-0443.html



Makes me wonder how well our military would perform if they ever have to fight a real army.



I'd bet that building wasnt made of wood, looks like stone.

It's much easier to defend a position from a well built building, than from out in the open, and/or behind vehicles.

I'm sure a contributing factor to the length of the battle was, they were given ample and several times to surrender. You cant get intel from corpses... at least not much. :D

I dont have a military background, but this seems logical to me.

Eric:)
 
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I imagine the op to take out the Hussein boys was a high-profile event and they purposely put a lot of hardware and people on the job to make sure it got done. Can't argue with success. Up until the shells started hitting, the Husseins thought they were untouchable, and so did a lot of their followers. They know different now.



As for the photos of the corpses, we have seen much worse footage of our own President Kennedy having his brains blown out in slow motion on the TV hundreds of times as they play the Zapruder film over and over and over. Yet it's the photos of the poor old Hussein brothers that get folks riled up. This is why psychological ops are conducted in the black I guess.



Here's an interesting perspective on the current situation in Iraq, tells a different story than our media and Bush-bashers do:



http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/28/article_iraq.htm
 
GWB is doing his best to rebuild our military forces and try to get the pay scale for those in harms way increased.
The Bush Administration is giving new meaning to the phrase "support the troops. "



While the dangerous and difficult conditions in Iraq, combined with the unforeseen extension of their tour of duty fueled flagging morale, a recent Army Times article shed light on a series of homeland developments that may add more fuel to that fire.



According to Army Times, proposals that would have added "various pay-and-benefits incentives to the 2004 defense budget" are now considered "wasteful and unnecessary" by the Republican-controlled Congress.



A few weeks back President Bush arguably placed the troops stationed in Iraq in even greater harm's way by uttering his now infamous "Bring them on!" comment when asked about the increasing attacks and mounting US casualties. Shortly after his comment, Army Times posed this question to its readers: "What do you think about the 'bring them on' challenge President Bush issued July 2 from the White House, referring to those who attack U. S. troops in Iraq?" Nearly sixty percent agreed with the statement, "It was irresponsible and unnecessarily placed the lives of U. S. troops in even greater danger. "



how would you prepare our military to perform if they ever had to fight a real army??
Guess it will have to be much bigger if it takes 200 men and a billion dollars of equipment to take out four guys, like 50 times more than the force we are fighting. So if we go up against N Korea's 1. 2 million man army will it will take the entire population of California?

Sure wish we had that kind of back up when I served with 101st from '66-'69 in Vietnam.



and for the conservatives among us



Was Poppy Right After All?





07/28/03: (The American Conservative) After five weeks of air strikes and 100 hours of ground war, President Bush ordered General Schwarzkopf to end his attacks and halt his advance. Receiving reports of air massacres of retreating Iraqis on the Highway of Death out of Kuwait City, unwilling to risk a defection of his Arab allies, Bush I ordered an end to the war.



America agreed. Our goal had been to liberate Kuwait. It had been achieved, brilliantly. Saddam’s army had been evicted. The 500,000-man army of Desert Storm was ordered home. And the neoconservatives never forgave Bush I for not going to Baghdad.



A dozen years later, the son, at their fanatical urging, invaded Iraq, seized Baghdad, and committed America to building a democracy that would serve as a model for the Arab and Islamic world.



Three months have now elapsed since Baghdad fell. In those 100 days, the wisdom of the father in disregarding the neocons, and the folly of the son in heeding them, have become apparent.



America has 150,000 troops bogged down in Iraq as proconsul Paul Bremer is demanding thousands more to put down a guerrilla revolt that has broken out against our occupation.



Each day brings reports of new American dead and wounded. Our enemies are said to be terrorists, Saddam’s Fedayeen, the remnants of the Ba’ath Party. But Saddam had hundreds of thousands of men in his army, Republican Guard, and Special Republican Guard. We did not kill a tenth of these soldiers. Where are they now?



George W. Bush is in more trouble than he realizes. Indeed, his place in history may yet hinge on how he deals with what Americans are coming to see as an intolerable cost in lives to maintain a presence in Iraq when they are not yet convinced it is vital to our security.



The president spent a year convincing us of the ominous threat of Saddam—his weapons and ties to terrorists—a threat that could be eliminated only by an invasion and the death of his regime. But he has not even begun to make the case for why we must stay on in Iraq.



Why are we still there? If our goal is a democracy in Iraq, that is surely noble, but is it doable? What is the price in blood of achieving it? What is the cost in tens of billions? What are the prospects for success? What would constitute indices of failure, at which point we would write off the investment? What is our exit strategy?



None of these questions has been answered. What we hear from the president is “Bring ’em on,” and from senators who visit Baghdad, “We must be prepared to stay five or ten years. ” But why must we be prepared to stay five or ten years? Now that Saddam is gone and his weapons of mass destruction no longer threaten us, if ever they did, why must we stay?



Iraq is not Vietnam where we lost 150 soldiers each week for seven years. But it has taken on the aspect of the colonial wars of the European empires, all of which were lost because the natives were more willing to pay in blood to drive the imperialists out than the imperialists were willing to pay in blood to stay around.



The truism stands: the guerrillas win if they do not lose. And they do not lose as long as they keep fighting, dying, killing, and raising the cost of the occupation. British, French, Israelis, and Russians can testify to that.



Americans sense, rightly, that we do not need to occupy Iraq to be secure here at home.



Bush’s father understood this. Is the son wiser? Why did Bush I stop at Basra and not go on to Baghdad? He had no desire to occupy and rule Iraq. He saw no need to. He feared that a U. S. occupation would alienate Arab allies, inflame the Arab street, and invite an Iraqi intifada. He placed a high value on the coalition he had stitched together to fight, and to pay for, the war. He was warned Iraq could split apart and a Shi’ite south sympathetic to Iran could break loose. He did not see a routed Saddam as a mortal threat. He believed Iraq could be deterred, contained.



On this, he was a conservative. Has not history proven him right?



His son, however—to invade and occupy Iraq and oust Saddam—was willing to shatter alliances, alienate Arabs, Turks, French, Germans, and Russians, have his country pay the full cost of the war, and run the entire occupation ourselves. Now, U. S. casualties, after the fall of Baghdad, are approaching the number of lives lost in the war.



Looking back, were Saddam’s weapons so imminent a menace they required an invasion? Or did the neocons get revenge on the father by leading his son down the garden path—to the empire of their dreams, now creaking at the joints?



What does the son do now, with the election 15 months away?



by Pat Buchanan

July 28, 2003 issue

Copyright © 2003 The American Conservative
 
illflem,



I don't know about other conservatives, but my beef with Bush I was not over the failure to drive to Bagdad - it was the reprehensible, treacherous abandonment of the Iraqi opposition forces we had promised to support. Standing by with thumbs firmly planted, while the Hussein forces slaughtered the opposition on live TV, was an act of intolerable political cowardice.



President Bush I lost my respect that day...
 
Thanks Mike.



I have been just turning my TV off lately--before I bust it throwing something at O'rielly!!!! It boggles my mind how some of the people on here think he has a conservative slant--I would sure like to see a little of it. The only way he is conservative is as he compares to Jennings. All they want to do is dwell on the negative; how many GIs go killed today. That is just feeding the leftys who want us to turn tail and run, and just eggs the Saddam followers on to try to kill more of our people thinking that the goofys here will somehow force Bush to give up.



Things are really going pretty well there; now if the media would just start giving the whole story instead of their usual effort to slant everything to the sensational and the negative.



But I know better than to EVER expect much objectivity from anyone in the media. Than is not how they sell advertising.



Vaughn
 
Good God, illflem

Don't quote Pat Buchanan and the "American Conservative" as in anyway representing Conservative thought in America.



The "American Conservative" is NO ONE but Buchanan, (creating that name for his writings is supposed to make it soung like it something more than him and a few felllow outcasts from the conservative movement. ),and ever since Buchanan as the "anointed by God to be our next President", had that position stolen from under him by Bush, he has had only one mission in life-------revenge agains Bush for that sinfull act.

All he does full time is, sometimes subtle, and often blatantly as in the piece you qouted, try to foment trouble for the guy who was so sinful as to steal the position God intended him to have.



No, never think Buchanan has any purpose other than revenge against Bush; heck he has become the cheerleader for all you Bush haters... even those who procalim they "don't hate Bush", yea right, and we believe in Santa too.



Vaughn
 
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