Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Diesel Dynamics Torque I,II,III Injectors

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HVAC or anyone else who can chime in,
I have the stage 1 injectors and they provide a significant increase in power. I have a cummins uprate ECM on order. The DD boost module will be ordered tomorrow.
The boost module addresses air flow and the injectors address fueling. Do either the blue chip box or the TST enhancement address injection timing. Seems like timing is the third factor that is very important.
I have been reading the forum for a long time. I enjoy and appreciate everyone's comments and great attitude toward helping each other.

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Ron R 1998 Ram 2500 Extended Cab 5 - speed 3. 54

 

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The RV injectors give 30 hp, 60 ft lb in the 5 speed. This obviously does not add up to 275/660, but the RV engine has a "bigger" fueling curve in the ecm.

Mark's (TST) boost control does keep the boost up, because of the combination of restrictor and bleed hole. A simple restriction in the boost line will just delay the wastegate opening.

The 24 valve timing is built into the ecm program. There may be a small gain there, but the TST box gives a better gain than the reprogramming that was discontinued last Spring. Overall, the Rammer is better off with the box than with the reprogrammed ecm. I like to start with injectors, and find that the box adds to the power gain of injectors, so they are not "wasted" if you want more later.

I too am a bit suspicious of the DD dyno figures, because the stock clutch won't hold even 700 ft lb worth a darn on an empty truck. 800 makes it slip like you had a grease zerk in it. Lets see what happens when Bolton's dyno is dialed in, and maybe run come comparisons with the Silver State Dynojet.

 

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Well Joseph your right. I have to apologize on the boost fitting. I went out to the shop to inspect the orifice fitting I had on the truck. Upon inspection I noticed that the bleed hole was filled with paint. So I recant that part of my statement. However, I still prefer the higher value wastegate actuator over the boot fitting,but that is just a personal preference. Thanks for the input. DBR

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97 SLT 2500, 4x4, 5sp, 3. 54, 255/85/16. JRE #3 plate, JRE 300 hp Injectors, 14cm housing, Banks exhaust, K&N air filter, BD 60# exhaust brake, Isspro Digital Pyrometer and 50# Boost gauge, Centerforce Clutch, US Gear 20 % Overdrive, Rancho RS 9000 shocks, RS5000 steering stabilizer, Stull Stainless Steel Running Boards, Atwood Goose Neck Hitch, Alpine 3D Shuttle and Polk Audio speakers

[This message has been edited by DBR (edited 12-10-1999). ]

 

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Hi Joe,
How are you liking those new injectors? In my testing of the new injectors & turbo I've encounterd only one problem. I've snapped two transmission input shafts. Not sure what the cause is, can't be too much HP, because I only have the lowly 180hp motor, not like you, who has the 215 or should I say 217hp engine. I'm on the hunt for a better input shaft, if anybody knows of a company making one I would indebted to you for the information. Looking forward to being able to dyno our trucks at May maddness next year. You should have your new turbo by June :-}
Piers

 

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Has anyone looked into the (media)extrude honing of the cylinder head for either the 12 or 24 engines.

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97 SLT 2500, 4x4, 5sp, 3. 54, 255/85/16. JRE #3 plate, JRE 300 hp Injectors, 14cm housing, Banks exhaust, K&N air filter, BD 60# exhaust brake, Isspro Digital Pyrometer and 50# Boost gauge, Centerforce Clutch, US Gear 20 % Overdrive, Rancho RS 9000 shocks, RS5000 steering stabilizer, Stull Stainless Steel Running Boards, Atwood Goose Neck Hitch, Alpine 3D Shuttle and Polk Audio speakers

 

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NV-4500 input shafts? try advance adapters

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'01 on order (pick it up in may 2000), 2500 QC,SWB, 4x4, auto, SLT, black, camel leather, camper special, snowplow prep, tow package, rear sliding window, trip computer, LSD, 4. 10, will install 35 inch mud tires asap, cost 34k. (if your truck is like mine what MPG's do you get????

 

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Someone reported that extrude honing did not help the exhaust manifold (12 vale) appreciably. From what I did to the 12 valve head, I would not expect extrude honing to be worth much there either.

Piers, you obviously have bad parts, because your hp at about 182 could not be causing any problems. Of course you could cut back on fueling #ad
Piers is talking about automatics, folks, not the NV4500. When and if I can get up to 218 hp, I might be able to hurt that transmission.

 

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Those that are interested in both Stage II or III injectors and a box (blue, TST, BD etc. ). I would look into a TST Powermax, with it the boost module is not required for Stage II or III kits since the powermax keeps the ECM thinking there is only 18. 5 psi of boost (for powermax and powermax2, 20 psi for powermax1)
Would save someone $300
Brett

 

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To reiterate, if anyone would like to see a Diesel Dynamics price sheet, email me and include a fax number. This will also give you an idea of the scope of the products the provide. I think Lawrence has priced his products very resonably.

Vaughn, I don't notice my engine being quieter now, heck I'd probably have to take the hood of to compensate if it were! I know what you mean, these engines have a bark to them in the AM, advanced fuel timing I'm told. Guess it makes sense, with no heat in the engine the fuel won't burn as well and maybe more smoke is the result. Start the process a tad earlier. For an old 2-stroke pilot(noise), it just sounds like POWER!

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3/4 ton, 5 sp, lsd, 2wd, qcab, guages, Scotty sys. Rhino liner, Blue Box hp enhancement

 

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HVAC, can you get just the injectors from DD? Which injectors increase HP to 305 and torque to 610? Is it the stage III? What will the Stage I & II bring the Power to. What is the difference between the DD injectors and the RV injectors which is supposed to increase power 30hp/60lb torque?

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Randy Richmond-98 24 valve, 2500, 5 speed, 4x4, 3. 55, LB, QC, PacBrake, Amsoil, running boards, Leer Shell, Metalic Red.

 

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Randy, I'd suggest going back to Page 1 and read it through, all the answers to your quesitons are in this thread. It's LONG but very interesting and worth your time.

--Vaughn

(And thanks again, HVAC).

 

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Randy, I have the stage III kit in my truck. It is the best thing done to this truck so far. I refuse to drive it sanely, just can't stand leaving the neat power alone. Roughly speaking, the power levels are 50 hp increase, 75 hp increase, and 100 hp. You certainly can purchase the injectors alone. That is how they are sold. For stage II and III you purchase the boost module in addition.

Like Vaughn said, you should read the thread, I described Dman's machine and how he treats the injector tips. You may want to print the thread out, then sift out the stuff you don't want to keep. Also check out the website. www.dieseldynamics.com

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3/4 ton, 5 sp, lsd, 2wd, qcab, guages, Scotty sys. Rhino liner, Blue Box hp enhancement

 

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HVAC,
Are you using the "Blue Box" upgrade as well?

There is a Diesel shop close by my home who have been installing this same "Blue Box" in the 24V engines, but they have had two failures in less than two Months! It seems the pumps just freeze up! Dodge dealers here look at the wiring, and if anything looks like it has been tampered with, they will not replace the pumps! This happened with both failures according to the owner. Diesel shop will not use this "Blue Box" upgrade any more, so the only thing they are now doing is changing out the injectors.

Wayne
amsoilman

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94'SLT 4X4 AT/White in color. Factory Tow Hooks & Running Boards. Amsoil By-Pass filter, Amsoil Air cleaner,and all fluids are Amsoil. Optima "Red Top" batteries.
BD exhaust Brake, BD Torque Lock, BD Torque Converter, Dr. Performance Stage II Injection Pump. Mag-Hytec Diff Cover,Isspro Pyro, Boost,Oil temp Gauges mounted in 3 Gauge post mount. One gauge monitors Engine Oil, Trans, Diff. Temps.

 

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HVAC, how much did Diesel Dynamics charge to install your stage III? Did you just "drop in", or did you get an appointmemt? I am going to get the injectors, I am just trying to decide which ones to get. Your stage III sounds awsome, I wonder if I would be happy with stage I or II after your glowing endorsement. I pull a 22' trailer now, but I plan to get a 30' 5th wheel soon. Out here in the Rockies, there are a number of roads that really pull me down. I just wonder if the extra 50 hp will be enough. I am all for BOMBing my truck, however, my wife thinks it is a waste of money. I had to talk long and hard just to get the truck. Anything I add to the truck, like a PacBrake, shell, running boards etc. causes a problem with her. Do you know the torque increases with the stage I and II injectors? I love driving my truck now with the OEM power, I can only imagine what will happen when I get the engine BOMBed, I'll never be home, just out driving with a grin from ear to ear. Thanks for the detailed information. Randy

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Randy Richmond-98 24 valve, 2500, 5 speed, 4x4, 3. 55, LB, QC, PacBrake, Amsoil, running boards, Leer Shell, Metalic Red.

 

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Hello Wayne, aka "Amsoilman". A problem exists with the pump as you have mentioned. Who is responsible? Pumps are failing without the Blue Box, ask Scott1. Pumps are also failing after adding the BB. Bill Alsip has forwarded info to me that indicate that the pump (24v) is, and never was, up to the task. This pump was designed for a completely different application. What it's doing on our trucks is debated by some.
I asked Dman about this (I have pics of a failed pump) and the cause is not clear. What is clear is that the P pump on the 12v is sturdier. Dman would like to see me install a p pump on my ride, this is compelling.

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3/4 ton, 5 sp, lsd, 2wd, qcab, guages, Scotty sys. Rhino liner, Blue Box hp enhancement

 

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The problem with the P7100 on the ISB is the electronic part. It would render your gauges useless. That's the biggest bummer of the whole idea. None of your dash gauges would work because everything goes through the ECM. I seen an ISB with the P7100 at the diesel rally in Effingham Ill. this past fall. It was a complete rebuild job, somewhat cost prohibitive. It would be the hot setup though!

 

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JJDiesel, thanks for your thought!

The part where you said "it would be the hot setup", is where our thinking starts and practicality ends. I mean that we are going places where most folks don't intend to go performance speaking. Within the confines of the "cockpit" (where did that word come from?", the guages that matter most are the temp, egt, and oil pressure. We could add a new oil pressure, and temp guage if necessary, the egt and boost would not be affected.
When Scott1 gets back to the microphone you may understand the magnitude of what is being discussed. No holds barred you could say (how's that S1?).

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3/4 ton, 5 sp, lsd, 2wd, qcab, guages, Scotty sys. Rhino liner, Blue Box hp enhancement

 

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HVAC,
True, only a couple of the gauges would be essential, as you point out. I called Scheid Diesel in Effingham just to ask about the one they had and if they had an approximate cost to make the change... he wouldn't even venture a guess. Said it was a nightmare!
They had a sheet attached to the engine with the 'vital stats,' but I can't recall what they were, although I do remember it was impressive.

 

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Heard from Scott1 today, he enjoyed his experience at DD. He will be back on the BB soon. He has the same interest as I, to provide upgrade components for the folks just recently getting turned on to the turbo diesel. We both are staunch supporters of Lawrence and Diesel Dynamics and will provide the DD product line.

JJDiesel, the 24v engine with the older pump is the hot setup. It can provide a lot of fuel without the failure rate of the electronic pump. It probably would be a "nightmare" I can imagine. Lawrence says it has a bazillion parts, but it has been around for a while and consequently, the bugs have been worked out. I am still interested in modifying the electronic pump. I plan to increase the fuel output of the electronic pump, with Lawrence's expertise, before going to the engineering mount everest of the "P" pump hybrid. With the Blue Box and a little
interal tweaking by Lawrence, well hehehehe, I think we can squeeze a bit more out of it.

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3/4 ton, 5 sp, lsd, 2wd, qcab, guages, Scotty sys. Rhino liner, Blue Box hp enhancement

 

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HVAC;
When do you plan to head out to Vegas again. Let me know and I'll make an appointment with Lawrence to do my injectors. I'd like to see him again anyway. From what I have been reading on these posts I'm under the impression I won't need the boost module with my Power/Max1. Is this correct? I'd also like to speak with you and him in person about that venture Scott has been talking about.
Arlan

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1998. 5 QC 3500 4X4 3. 54 Auto ISB with all options and leather. TST PowerMax1. BD/TC and Valve Body, TC lockup switch with LED indicator, RV Injectors, 9000 LB Warn Winch, Ultra Board Running Boards, Westach Combo Boost/EGT and Transmission Temperature gauges, Pac brake, 2-lo kit, GPS, brite-box, Rancho 9000's etc. etc.
1946 Mercury Coupe Street Rod
1955 Willys Station Wagon
1995 Lexus SC400




[This message has been edited by arlan (edited 12-14-1999). ]