diesel up again

[Tractorat]

I just dont understand how diesel can be 50cents more expensive than regular gasoline. If anything it should be cheaper. $2. 45 here

 

[RJOL]

Don't try to understand fuel prices. No matter what happens, the oil companies will always have a good reason (in their minds) why you need to pay more. The local news will do their obligatory 2 minute story about it, then forget it until the next time it happens. My theory is that the oil companies are slowing training us so that when it stabilizes at the price they want, you will think its a good deal...

 

[hammersley]

Yep - we're being HOSED!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW - I know all will yell - BUT ever since GW was relected the $$$$ has went through the ROOF - I guess cigars and such mush have went up in Texas and they need the additional $$$$$ -

 

[MHalloran]

Diesel price...

I thought the price of diesel here in Jersey was high until I heard about Seattle. It's $1. 99 gal. here vs. $1. 73 for regular gas. Wouldn't you think that diesel should always be a heck of a lot cheaper than gas, because it's not as refined as gas ?

 

[WyattEarp]

I understand what everyone is saying, but believe me when i say i was shocked that diesel here went from 1. 90 to 1. 86, yeah it dropped, im guessing the not so bad winter they were expecting left some with excessive amounts of heating oil, IE, diesel fuel.

I also know the rag heads are (opec) i mean is slowing down production again to raise the price this is udder BS!!!! But i got to thinking could it be the thousands of barrels were sending to iraq for the military to use, if so why has it not been set up that when such happens that the fuel and gas isn't taken from the reserve stock for the military and leave the civilian stock alone, just a thought i had on the brain for a little while.

I know our Gov't is brain dead when it comes to making decisions in washington as there only concern is who gets credit for what along with there bickering and griping among the 2 parties, i think we need to dump the lot of them and start over. But its just my 2 cents worth on it. .

 

[Texas Ted]

Diesel is $2. 39 here in Central California now. If the state politicians and environmentalists would keep out of it we could have prices considerably less. Here there are reformulation requirements that create an artificial shortage. One type of fuel in the winter and another in the summer. The state does not produce enough to satisfy it's needs. Same old story environmentalists keep any new production facilities in limbo for years while it's in the courts we pay the price. There are very few refineries outside of California where the reformulated fuel can be produced. I think you know that no new refineries have been built for many, many years. The enviros would rather have us all bicycling and walking and they are really out to put their agenda in action. Remember to vote for the 'RIGHT' people!!!!!!!!!!

 

[slo-ryde]

Chevron in Cotati, CA sells premium gas for $2. 23, diesel is going for $2. 33! What a rip!

 

[HBarlow]

Fuel prices are a matter of supply and demand, and taxes. OPEC and other suppliers do strive to limit supplies in order to keep the prices up but the problem is primarily one of demand. China is emerging as an industrialized nation and is demanding far more crude oil than it did just several years ago. Other nations are also becoming more modern and using more oil supplies. Within the US we are forced to buy from OPEC because we can't produce enough to meet our demand. The shortage is driven by liberals whining about environmental issues. Libs have prevented increasing our crude oil supplies by drilling in Alaska and off shore locations. Secondly, liberals whining prevents building new and more efficient refineries. Our capacity to produce is inadequate to meet our demand.



Another supply related problem is that some areas of the US, primarily the North-East, heat their homes with oil placing further demand on diesel fuel. Increased demand always drives up fuel costs in the winter.



Third, notice that the highest fuel costs are always in states where liberal democrats either totally run state government or significantly influence taxes. States with the highest fuel costs have the highest state fuel taxes.



When you vote for a democrat you are voting for higher fuel costs. Actually, when you vote for a democrat you are voting for higher prices for everything.



Harvey

 

[RJOL]

Harvey... While I agree with some of what you're saying, especially the last sentence, it doesn't explain why diesel is so high (higher then premium gas) in the Northwest. We don't have a "heating oil" crunch. Maybe China is buying all the West Coast diesel??? Or maybe the oil companies are just getting ready for their next big push in prices. Let's see what happens to the price of all gas products by Summer...

 

[HBarlow]

I'm not in the petroleum distribution or marketing industry so I have no specific knowledge of fuel markets and distribution. Likewise, I'm not a petroleum engineer so can't speak knowledgeably about categories of refined products.



However, yes, the explanation I provided does, in general terms, explain why diesel prices are higher in your area. High demand for home heating oil in the Northeast places a higher demand on overall supplies of home heating oil and diesel fuel nationwide. Again, I'm not an expert, but as I understand the problem, home heating oil and diesel fuel are similar products, maybe nearly identical. High demand for one reduces available supplies of the other. Higher demand causes prices to increase.



The fundamental principle that is frequently overlooked when consumers complain about the cost of some consumer good is our nation is founded on the principle of individual freedom. Personal as well as economic freedom. Each of us is free to work as an employee of someone else, or to start our own business. Oil companies also enjoy that freedom. If we choose to start our own business we are free to produce whatever product or service we care to offer..... and to charge whatever price we choose for our product or service. The market will determine if our price is reasonable. If our price is set too low, demand will overwhelm our ability to supply the product or service. If our price is too high, demand will be very low and we won't be able to sell our product or service. That is the free market at work.



Same with diesel fuel. Obviously the price is not too high..... we haven't stopped buying it. Oil companies have the right to determine how their product will be produced, delivered, and priced.



Who among us would like the government set prices? If one of us wishes to sell his home to purchase a newer larger one do you want a US senator to determine the price you can charge for your home? How about your truck? Do you want the government to determine the price of your used Dodge-Cummins?



Remember the Soviet Union? The government set all prices in the USSR. It didn't work very well.



Harvey

 

[DSutton]

A huge issue that has been touched upon, but not emphasized is the taxes involved. Here in Oregon total taxes equal $51/ gallon. That is a whopping 20%, based on a price of $2. 50/ gallon. It was 28% @ $1. 80/ gallon. Yeah the fuel is high, but Gov't is involved in the price, and recieve a big cut of the pie!!!

 

[mhenon]

"When you vote for a democrat you are voting for higher fuel costs. Actually, when you vote for a democrat you are voting for higher prices for everything. "



Yeah... yeah, that's it... it's those democrats... . LET'S GETTUM BOYS!!!

 

[CRuth]

Lol, your republican president sure hasn't been much help.

Went to get diesel yesterday, 20 cents higher than the day before

 

[BStoecker]

The problem isn't the shortage of diesel, crude oil, or heating oil. It is the lack of refining capacity in the US. If they need more heating oil, they must reduce the refining output of diesel. That is where the bottleneck occurs. If the greenpeace, crunchy granola, tree hugging, anti-everything hippie freaks would shut the heck up and let them build new refineries, we wouldn't have this problem.

 

[AC]

Democrats are to blame?



We have a Republican House, a Republican Senate, a Republican Supreme Court, and a Republican President. Using Harvey's logic prices should be plummeting... . " on everything". Out Here in the Pacific Northwest Diesel has jumped 50 cents in two weeks and now averages $2. 55. A 60 cent premium over regular unleaded. I still don't understand why Diesel is going up so much faster than regular unleaded. Did the Democrats blow up a Diesel refinery? AC

 

[mhenon]

The problem isn't the shortage of diesel, crude oil, or heating oil. It is the lack of refining capacity in the US. If they need more heating oil, they must reduce the refining output of diesel. That is where the bottleneck occurs. If the greenpeace, crunchy granola, tree hugging, anti-everything hippie freaks would shut the heck up and let them build new refineries, we wouldn't have this problem.

You forgot liberal pinko fags! Don't you just hate that smell of granola and tree sap... . those people reek of it. Next thing you know they'll come up with some "bio-diesel" yuppie crap... and expect the rest of us real men to burn that in our macho Cummins engines. Man... what's the world coming to???

 

[JBlock]

The Oil Supplier are going to build refininery overseas

The problem isn't the shortage of diesel, crude oil, or heating oil. It is the lack of refining capacity in the US. If they need more heating oil, they must reduce the refining output of diesel. That is where the bottleneck occurs. If the greenpeace, crunchy granola, tree hugging, anti-everything hippie freaks would shut the heck up and let them build new refineries, we wouldn't have this problem.

Yes that right, since the USA has not built any new refinery in thirty years . The overseas suppilers, the middle east is going throught the planning stages to starting to build esport refinery capacity, to sell refinining the crude and shipping the gasolins and diesel as a value added products. The enviromental guys in the USA and europe are going to get their wish no new refineries and will have us all riding bicyles while China moves in to Cars and trucks. Yes this counter productive, even more balance of trade issues.



Write you congressman and senators about the high price of diesel suggesting their singificant price goughing going on. Sort on Google for the e-forms addreed. The Northwest TDR group has sent 100 of email on price gouging in Washington. Bad news is oil futures are now $51. 50 a barrel and the average sell price of crude in the middle east reach $42 a barrel, so where the extra ten dollars, shipping in supper tanker, i don't thing so. speculators. :--)

 

[WBusa]

HBarlow, I was with you all the way when you were talking about supply and demand, the China factor, etc. -- i. e. , the real factors that are causing the price increases -- but you lost me when you drifted off into politics. California fuel prices are sky-high, and Ah-nold is neither a liberal nor a Democrat. There are no shortage of other examples in other states, as well. And conservative Republicans control the House, the Senate, and the White House. The fact is, it has nothing to do with Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative... but the guys who are lightening your wallet love to have you keep looking the other way like that... .

 

[LEerkes]

MBuck,



I'm a banker, definitely not a fuel expert. However, I am in Washington State and I do have clients that are fuel distributors and some that have fleets of diesel trucks. For those out there that are not aware the average price of diesel in Washington rose by 50 cents in about a week and is now in the $2. 65 range while unleaded regular gas is running about $1. 98. This is not typical of pricing in this part of the country, normally the diesel and regular unleaded would be roughly equal.



Here is the explanation given by one of my clients:



"Each year it seems that at some point in time, the Petroleum Market in the Pacific Northwest, and nationally for that matter, wanders into uncharted waters, and it's blatantly obvious that 2005 is no different. The volatility continues. For the (past) several years, February has typically seen large market increases due to a spattering of suppliers that routinely schedule refinery "turnarounds" for this "lower demand" time of year. A "turnaround" is basically when the refinery operation is taken down for scheduled maintenance, thus refinery product runs are reduced significantly. Tesoro does their turnaround each February, as is the case right now. U. S. Oil is also down for turnaround, although their impact is not nearly the scale of Tesoro's. Tesoro apparently had an agreement with Shell to help supply diesel fuel to offset their turnaround, and ConocoPhillips had a similar agreement with U. S. Oil. From what I heard yesterday, both Shell and ConocoPhillips are having unannounced issues at their own refineries, thus it is becoming increasingly difficult for them to live up to their respective agreements. Unfortunately, supply and demand is still the rule, and the Pacific Northwest is currently having diesel supply issues. The Seattle OPIS Rack Average for diesel fuel, over the past 2 months (Dec. 15th - Today) has increased over . 76 cents per gallon. The PNW Diesel rack prices today are in excess of . 40 cents per gallon over Los Angeles Carb diesel prices, nearly . 53 cents per gallon over New York Harbor L. S. Diesel, and more than . 57 cents per gallon over L. S. Diesel in the Gulf. "



A few additional comments.



"Turnaround's" have a very significant impact on prices in the Pacific Northwest. Most of the US is "connected" by pipelines that help to offset supply issues in a particular area. This is not true in the West. We are a bit of an Island as far as fuel supplies go. The good news is that the impact is temporary - turnarounds are handled as quickly as possible and the diesel prices will soon drop to a more normal relationship to other fuel prices.

 

[JBlock]

Erk



I hope your right and price do come back down, as most of us fear, this is just testing the waters for the long term higher price curve to determine what the public can bare. If the demand isn't deminished materially, then it suggest that the economony can support higher prices. I work in the Middle East, average selling price for the baskets of seven typical Arab crudes rose to $42. 00 a barrel last week, that near and all time high. That suggests that the demand as not decreased yet. Those china has drop back from peak purchase in the fourth quarter of last year, the Chises were stock piling for the winter to abovid the peak.



Jumping to another subject, perhaps it would be interest of the Washington and Oregon to give tax insentives for a product pipeline company to inter-tie into the gasoline and crude transport system on mid west ot even to Texas with a new pipeline. Product lines are difficult to justify on the trasporation charges. As the February pricing is only going to be worst in the future, as you stated. All the USA refineries are at capacity. Mainantence shutdowns should not be price drivers. I would not be supprised to find out that the profit margin for Oil refiners is higher for the whole years as the resulted of their bulk of the profits are made during the mainantence windows. This profit reward appears to reward poor planning and lack of stock piling diesel, and that is the issue, and it sad to say the poor planning has the reward of huge price increase when one can get an extra $0. 50 a gallon markup at the pump by a voiding investment in capitol facilities. Why would anyone want to change the system by spending money on storage capacity if they can count on a 5 fold price increase 2 or 3 time a year and more often as demand increase year to year, longer price rise windows. It appear the refiner "through lack of investment have achieve a higher profit than looking out for the public interests. "



Me for one will looking into what it takes to have a small diesel tank on my property, (200-500 gallon range), that enviromentally acceptable, and doing the purchasing ahead of the maintance windows in the future.



Just my thoughts. JB