Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) dip stick mystery

[Tractorat]

Ive posted this question a couple of times in the last couple of years, but Ive never gotten an answer. So, it may be that my experience is unique.



Ever since I bought my truck (new in 02), whenever Ive had an oil change, they always fill it so that when the engine is cold, the oil level is about half way up the numbers on the dip stick (where the part number is ?), or maybe a 1/2 to a quart high. Quite often, especially after a long road trip pulling my TT up steep mountains, the level will eventually go down, but never all the way to the full line.



The oil change before this last one, they filled it so that a cold engine resulted in an oil level right to the full line. I then went on a 2500 mile round trip, pulling my trailer again up some steep grades. When I got back the oil level still read right at the full line.



I have a theory. That the cold oil level should be right at the full mark on the dip stick. And that, if it is overfilled, it will through out the excess oil. Whether thru the puke bottle, or out the tail pipe.



Does anyone know what might be happening here ? I just cant believe that the correct fill puts the level a quart high. And, Ive always been told that the best time to check the oil level is after its been sitting for at least a couple of hours.





TRat

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Sounds to me like you need to find some different folks to change your oil. There really is no excuse for not getting the oil level right.

Where the oil is going I do not know without inspecting the truck.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[cojhl2]

Seems to me you need to know how much oil they are putting in the engine, not by dipstick but by actual volume.



I think the engine is trying to tell you where it wants to run.



So far as the dipstick is concerned one qt one way or another is not a big deal.

 

[cerberusiam]

Add 3 gallons, let it sit until all the oil drains back and every truck I have will show varying degrees over full. Not all the dip sticks are exact and there will be differences.



The most consistent way I have found to check the oil level is let the truck sit for 5-10 minutes after fully warmed and check the level. With the initial fill this has always put the level right at the top of the full mark.



Over full after a long drain back is gong to be normal. Whne the engine is running the oil level is lower anyway due to the oil taking longer to drain back so no big deal. As long as the oil is at or above the full mark with 3 gallons you are good.

 

[JMetzger]

When I take mine to Carson Dodge they put in 11qt's. The next morning when I check it it is either on the full mark or just a smidge under full. Mine is an 02

 

[PC12Driver]

From the "add" line to the "full" line is 2 quarts. On the '02 that works out to be 9 to 11 quarts of oil added to the engine after an oil change (with a dry filter). You could add only the 9 quarts and the engine wouldn't know the difference from 11. Top it off to the 11 quart mark and you get a bit of a buffer for leakage or burnoff, and you won't (shouldn't) have to add any additional oil between changes. So, as far as your engine knows, 9 quarts is effectively full, and anything up to 11 is bonus.



More than 11 quarts in your engine can be harmful, and is certainly wasteful. The main problem being the oil surface to crankshaft clearance. The rotating crank can dip into the oil and aerate it, causing foaming, and resulting in all the stuff that comes along with having air in your oil (hotter temps, more wear, quicker oil oxidation). You can also lose some milage from the drag caused by the crank slinging the oil (windage).



There isn't a single benefit to overfilling your engine oil.



cojhl2 hit the nail on the head: the engine is telling you where it wants to run. Because if you're not losing any oil when you have the proper amount in the engine, something mechanically has to be making that extra oil go away, and that can't be good. Obviously, the 12 quarts your "mechanic" is putting in the engine is too much. With a two quart range to hit, there really isn't any excuse to accidentally overfill (maybe lack of attention or laziness). Sounds like he's in the wrong line of work.

 

[cerberusiam]

From the "add" line to the "full" line is 2 quarts. On the '02 that works out to be 9 to 11 quarts of oil added to the engine after an oil change (with a dry filter).



So, as far as your engine knows, 9 quarts is effectively full, and anything up to 11 is bonus.



More than 11 quarts in your engine can be harmful, and is certainly wasteful. The main problem being the oil surface to crankshaft clearance. The rotating crank can dip into the oil and aerate it, causing foaming, and resulting in all the stuff that comes along with having air in your oil (hotter temps, more wear, quicker oil oxidation).

Oil fill on an ISB after a warm 30 minute drain is 12 quarts. Not not 11, not 9, 12 quarts.



Putting 12 quarts in will not hurt anything. Pretty sure the millions of miles these engines have rolled up with 12 quarts proves that.



Trying to decide fill by the dip stick in WRONG, period. They are not all marked correctly and will vary.



If the engine gets over filled with oil enough the crank is hitting it, it will puke out the carnk case vent in a stream. 12 quarts will NOT cause any aeration as the level is considerably lower with engine running.



The biggets mistakes made are gauging oil level by the dip stick and not allowing adequate drain time to remove the old oil. Typical oil change place drops the plug and when the stream is small puts the plug back and fills. That will almost guarantee around a quart over every time. It may or may not loose that in the first 1000 miles, other factors play into that scenario.

 

[Tractorat]

Thanks for all of the replies. I've had the oil changed a several different places. The dealership once or twice (when it was new), and then mostly at an independent shop that specializes in diesel trucks. And the guy is pretty good there. Every time since this truck was new, its always shown high over the dip stick mark.



I just recently started taking it to the local Grease Monkey for oil changes. They have Delo, and are quite a bit less expensive (and closer) than the guy I used to take it to. They usually have filled the oil to the same level that I've always gotten. It was just the time before last that I've ever had it right at the full line.

 

[BHaden]

I recently sold an 06 which officially takes 11 qts. I just did the 2nd oil/filter change last weekend on my "new" 95 and after putting in 10 qts and waiting for it to settle after a brief warmup, it was right at full. My dipstick tube was damaged when I got the truck and had been repaired (by me) so I was tempted to just add a total of 11qts and re-mark or re-adjust the tube and stick. Then I decided to look in the owners manual. It said 10 qts, not 11. It also said the difference between the add and full marks was 1qt. I found no reference to whether 10qts was including filter except it did say to change the filter at every oil change, which is what I did.

 

[hsmith]

Three of the big jugs always puts mine right on the full mark. I don't second guess. Put some in the filter and the rest in the engine and fire it up.

 

[gtwitch]

oil fill

I have always changed my own oil on my 99 and I found out early on that if I filled it to the full line after the filter was full and system was full that it would puke out a half quart of oil from the breather tube until it was down to about the middle of the safe mark on the stick then it will remain there for about 3000 miles and then it will use a little oil in the next 2000 miles, where I add a quart and go till it is about down to the add line again at about 7500 miles total and change it and have used either Amzoil or Shell Syn for the last 150,000 and nothing has changed.



gtwitch in wyoming

 

[PC12Driver]

Oil fill on an ISB after a warm 30 minute drain is 12 quarts. Not not 11, not 9, 12 quarts.

Huh. I can dump in exactly 11 quarts after an overnight drain, put on an empty filter, run the truck, and be right at the full line the next day. Been doing that for almost 10 years. Not sure where you're getting the 12 quarts from. Certainly not the owner's or shop manuals (which say 11 w/filter). The B-series hasn't used 12 quarts since the first generation. Show me your source and I'll stand corrected.

Trying to decide fill by the dip stick in WRONG, period. They are not all marked correctly and will vary.

That is the awesomest thing you've ever said! Really? Don't use the dipstick to check oil quantity? You think there's some guy in the factory just hacking random marks in those things? You've gotta just be making some of this stuff up as you go just to get a response out of us. That one totally made my day!

If the engine gets over filled with oil enough the crank is hitting it, it will puke out the carnk case vent in a stream. 12 quarts will NOT cause any aeration as the level is considerably lower with engine running.

You know where the vent is, right? And you know where the crank is? How does the crank sling a "stream" of oil around the corner and all the way up the timing gear train? And what is "considerably lower"? Have you measured or have any data to back that up?



TRat's truck loses oil that is above the full line, but stops losing oil once it reaches that point. So what changes? It's not like there's an overflow making the extra oil go away. And there isn't a point anywhere else in the engine that even knows that there is an extra quart in the engine, except in the oil pan. And if there aren't any oil leaks, then it has to be getting vaporized by some means and consumed or vented. Not many things it could be, really...



Every engine manufacturer from Briggs and Stratton to Cummins warns against overfilling a crankcase with oil. Cerberusiam, some guy on the internet, says it's okay based on his opinion. Sorry, ain't buyin' it. I'll make the extra effort to do the most simple of all maintenance procedures, an oil change, correctly.



Ya know, I'd take you more seriously if you'd come up with some sources for some of the stuff you say on here.

 

[AWeiman]

this is straight from both the owners manuals from my two trucks.

2001: "the engine capacity is 10 quarts in the crankcase and 1 quart in the lubricating oil filter. "

2006: "the engine capacity is 11 quarts in the crankcase and 1 quart in lubricating oil filter. "



'01 manual states"never operate with the oil level below the add mark or above the safe mark", the '06 states something very similar.



just the facts, do with this info what you will.

 

[Tractorat]

Well, I guess I was just wondering if nobody else had the same experience as I, that maybe the factory had put the wrong dip stick in.

 

[FourBarR]

check sb 09-06-98-incorrect dip stick. p/n on dip stick for incorrect one is 3944594.

correct one is 3935648. hope this helps. have never filled by dip stick . 11 quarts has worked for 536,000kms ( or 323. 000k).

 

[PC12Driver]

check sb 09-06-98-incorrect dip stick. p/n on dip stick for incorrect one is 3944594.

correct one is 3935648. hope this helps. have never filled by dip stick . 11 quarts has worked for 536,000kms ( or 323. 000k).

That applies to the 98 1/2 trucks. His '02 would be well clear of that one.

SB 09-06-98 (Which also states 10 qts in the crankcase and 1 in the filter, btw)

 

[cojhl2]

Huh. I can dump in exactly 11 quarts after an overnight drain, put on an empty filter, run the truck, and be right at the full line the next day. Been doing that for almost 10 years. Not sure where you're getting the 12 quarts from. Certainly not the owner's or shop manuals (which say 11 w/filter). The B-series hasn't used 12 quarts since the first generation. Show me your source and I'll stand corrected.







That is the awesomest thing you've ever said! Really? Don't use the dipstick to check oil quantity? You think there's some guy in the factory just hacking random marks in those things? You've gotta just be making some of this stuff up as you go just to get a response out of us. That one totally made my day!







You know where the vent is, right? And you know where the crank is? How does the crank sling a "stream" of oil around the corner and all the way up the timing gear train? And what is "considerably lower"? Have you measured or have any data to back that up?



TRat's truck loses oil that is above the full line, but stops losing oil once it reaches that point. So what changes? It's not like there's an overflow making the extra oil go away. And there isn't a point anywhere else in the engine that even knows that there is an extra quart in the engine, except in the oil pan. And if there aren't any oil leaks, then it has to be getting vaporized by some means and consumed or vented. Not many things it could be, really...



Every engine manufacturer from Briggs and Stratton to Cummins warns against overfilling a crankcase with oil. Cerberusiam, some guy on the internet, says it's okay based on his opinion. Sorry, ain't buyin' it. I'll make the extra effort to do the most simple of all maintenance procedures, an oil change, correctly.



Ya know, I'd take you more seriously if you'd come up with some sources for some of the stuff you say on here.

Wow PC, a friendly disagreement would have been suffice!!

 

[PC12Driver]

Wow PC, a friendly disagreement would have been suffice!!

Yeah, I agree in most cases...

 

[cerberusiam]

Huh. I can dump in exactly 11 quarts after an overnight drain, put on an empty filter, run the truck, and be right at the full line the next day. Been doing that for almost 10 years. Not sure where you're getting the 12 quarts from. Certainly not the owner's or shop manuals (which say 11 w/filter).

Thats all right, you can make up for doing it wrong for the last 10 years and do it correct for th enext 10 years. Just what does 11 quarts with filter mean while prefilling the filter is recommended?



Comes out right at the full line on every one of the 5 trucks I have had, can't argue with consistency.

That is the awesomest thing you've ever said! Really? Don't use the dipstick to check oil quantity?

Thats what I said because there are miss marked dipsticks, the tube is not all the way into the block, etc. I guess maybe you should read some of those web pages you link to and pay attention here you might learn a thing or 2.

You know where the vent is, right? And you know where the crank is? How does the crank sling a "stream" of oil around the corner and all the way up the timing gear train? And what is "considerably lower"? Have you measured or have any data to back that up?

LOL, you really should spend a little more time thinking about some of the stuff you post. The crank crates a heavy oil mist when it hits the oil, the mist gets shoved out the crank case vent, it condenses in the vent and you get a small steady stream of oil coming out the tube in extreme conditions, LOT of drips in others. Ever see what happens to the underside of the truck when you fill the crank with fuel?



Probably not cuz you are missing the point, same as the oil level while running. Seriously, you should probably spend a little more time in the garage instead in front of that computer from the sounds of it.



Will it hurt to run 11 quarts, no. Will it hurt to run 12 quarts, no. 12 quarts has been the norm on all of the B engines and never seen a problem with it, EXCEPT, when there is an issue with the dip stick or tube. As for using a half quart or even 2 in 5000 miles, normal. Most of these engines don't get worked enough and they all end up eating a little oil after you 150k or so on them. No big deal, just part of the mystique.

 

[PC12Driver]

But obviously, not this one.