Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) dip stick mystery

[PC12Driver]

Thats all right, you can make up for doing it wrong for the last 10 years and do it correct for th enext 10 years. Just what does 11 quarts with filter mean while prefilling the filter is recommended?



Comes out right at the full line on every one of the 5 trucks I have had, can't argue with consistency.









Thats what I said because there are miss marked dipsticks, the tube is not all the way into the block, etc. I guess maybe you should read some of those web pages you link to and pay attention here you might learn a thing or 2.









LOL, you really should spend a little more time thinking about some of the stuff you post. The crank crates a heavy oil mist when it hits the oil, the mist gets shoved out the crank case vent, it condenses in the vent and you get a small steady stream of oil coming out the tube in extreme conditions, LOT of drips in others. Ever see what happens to the underside of the truck when you fill the crank with fuel?



Probably not cuz you are missing the point, same as the oil level while running. Seriously, you should probably spend a little more time in the garage instead in front of that computer from the sounds of it.



Will it hurt to run 11 quarts, no. Will it hurt to run 12 quarts, no. 12 quarts has been the norm on all of the B engines and never seen a problem with it, EXCEPT, when there is an issue with the dip stick or tube. As for using a half quart or even 2 in 5000 miles, normal. Most of these engines don't get worked enough and they all end up eating a little oil after you 150k or so on them. No big deal, just part of the mystique.

Tell ya what. Read the TSB I posted above and tell me how you interpret "The total capacity of the 24 valve engine crankcase is 10 quarts plus 1 for the filter. "



Or the problems that it lists that could occur if the engine was overfilled by as little as a quart-and-a-half. Such as aeration. It says there won't be engine damage from overfilling, but personally, I prefer to keep air out of my oil.



Are the TSB, owner's manual, and shop manual wrong for my truck?

 

[cerberusiam]

Tell ya what. Read the TSB I posted above and tell me how you interpret "The total capacity of the 24 valve engine crankcase is 10 quarts plus 1 for the filter. "



Are the TSB, owner's manual, and shop manual wrong for my truck?

Wrong or right, there are some interesting stories around those numbers and the WHY they got published. Lots of interesting opinions from people that work(ed) on these engines at that time also. However, since you want documented stamped approval of said info I will just leave it at that.



FYI, just because its written in a manual doesn't make it anymore valid than mine or 10,000 others opinions. The misprints and blatant missed proof reading in manuals is a good subject for discussion. If more than 10 copies of anything gets printed its given there will be a couple inconsistencies.



Try this, get the engine warm and check the oil immeditely after shutting it off and see what the dip stick reads. Then, come back say 10 minutes later and check again. Then check it dead cold the next morning after a drain back. Think about what the differences in the readings really mean in relationship to 11 or 12 quarts, AND the normal vehicle owner checking their oil, AND the real accuracy of the dip stick.



When your done add 11 or 12 quarts on an oil change as you desire. Its not going to make a significant difference.



Oh, and I must apologize for my first response. A re-read indicates I could have worded that differently. Doesn't mean I don't think you are a jerk, but, your a fun jerk to argue with.

 

[macdaddy]

Thanks for all of the replies. I've had the oil changed a several different places. The dealership once or twice (when it was new), and then mostly at an independent shop that specializes in diesel trucks. And the guy is pretty good there. Every time since this truck was new, its always shown high over the dip stick mark.



I just recently started taking it to the local Grease Monkey for oil changes. They have Delo, and are quite a bit less expensive (and closer) than the guy I used to take it to. They usually have filled the oil to the same level that I've always gotten. It was just the time before last that I've ever had it right at the full line.

This post tells it all. Too many people changing the oil and at different places. I understand that there is some that need to have others change their oil, but with out an accurate way to reference how much oil is being added this problem comes up from time to time.



My 99 took exactly 12 qts (3 Gallons of delo 400) with a filter. To accurately reference the correct level let it sit over night after each oil change, then check it. Hopefully have the the same person doing the oil change.



Mac

 

[Tractorat]

This post tells it all. Too many people changing the oil and at different places. I understand that there is some that need to have others change their oil, but with out an accurate way to reference how much oil is being added this problem comes up from time to time.

Thats over a period of about 9 years. Most of those oil changes were at the same place by the same guy.



I used to change my own oil too (when I was quite a bit younger). But, I finally realized I could drive my car/truck just a few blocks, give someone a couple of bucks, and it magically was changed. No more crawling under a car/truck, no more getting greasy and dirty, no more oil to dispose of, no more oil dripping on the ground etc.



BTW, after sitting overnight is when I check the oil in all of my cars.

 

[cojhl2]

To accurately reference the correct level let it sit over night after each oil change, then check it. Hopefully have the the same person doing the oil change.



Mac

Whenever you check it do it consistently under the same circumstances.



I check most of the time during refueling.

 

[macdaddy]

Hey Tract.....



No Worries, I see my self doing this in the future as well. I should also say that when doing the "sit over night" method of checking make sure the truck is always sitting in the same position/place... .



Mac

 

[Wyomingcowboy]

And people have said this forum is dying... ..... maybe the flames of PC12 and cerberusiam are just the few last flickers, but they sure can be entertaining! Thanks for keeping the blood flowing, guys!



As for me and my '01. 5, I vary between 11 and 12 qts. I also vary drain times as I have better things to do, usually, than to let the used oil drain for hours. Also, have you ever noticed how if you dump oil out of the bottle, cap it, and then turn it upside down there is always a few more ounces that settle in the bottom? There are tons of variables and to each his own I say.

i have noticed with 11 qts at fill up I have to add more within 1k or so. With 12 qts at fillup I can go a little longer.

just my . 02

 

[Diesel Gunner]

Ya Ya Ya.



I had a Master Mechanic with 25 years experience that was 40 years old (are you getting the picture) tell me that I was not putting enough oil in my truck and that he always put 14 qts in every 5. 9 that he ever serviced and mine was going to blow up. Also, blow the exhaust gaskets because of the exhaust brake.



I have serviced my own truck since new for ten years now and have only ever put 11 qts with a new filter regardless if I pre filled the filter or not. After service it is on the full mark and no leaks from vent or unusual oil consumption for any number of miles.



Owners Manual says capacity is 11 qts with filter.



Oh, yea. the "Master" was pretty apologetic when I confronted him with different applications for the 5. 9 such as Ambulance and medium duty truck applications where they are listed as having different sumps and capacities.



I will stay with OEM recommendation on engine oil capacity. And, continue to wonder why we need to waste time reading such ridiculous disagreement.



$0. 02

 

[Harlacher]

Because the disagreements are fun and I learn a lot from them. I have an amsoil bypass filtration system on my 99 and I put 13 quarts in. My dipstick has been out of the engine and I have always wondered if it is back to where it was when the engine was new. With all the mods I have made to the engine the dipstick tube has been pushed and flexed and I have wondered if it was still accurate. If the bends and twists have changed the reading by a half an inch I am sure that would result in at least a quart misreading. I put in 13 quarts look at where it is on the dipstick when cold and go from there.

 

[PC12Driver]

Wrong or right, there are some interesting stories around those numbers and the WHY they got published. Lots of interesting opinions from people that work(ed) on these engines at that time also. However, since you want documented stamped approval of said info I will just leave it at that.



FYI, just because its written in a manual doesn't make it anymore valid than mine or 10,000 others opinions. The misprints and blatant missed proof reading in manuals is a good subject for discussion. If more than 10 copies of anything gets printed its given there will be a couple inconsistencies.



Try this, get the engine warm and check the oil immeditely after shutting it off and see what the dip stick reads. Then, come back say 10 minutes later and check again. Then check it dead cold the next morning after a drain back. Think about what the differences in the readings really mean in relationship to 11 or 12 quarts, AND the normal vehicle owner checking their oil, AND the real accuracy of the dip stick.



When your done add 11 or 12 quarts on an oil change as you desire. Its not going to make a significant difference.



Oh, and I must apologize for my first response. A re-read indicates I could have worded that differently. Doesn't mean I don't think you are a jerk, but, your a fun jerk to argue with.

Yeah, kinda ticks ya off when you have someone ask you to back up your opinions with facts, doesn't it?



I don't think the relationship between the oil level and how long the truck sits is news to anyone here. However, I haven't owned or operated something with an engine where the manufacturer didn't prescribe the conditions for which they wanted the owner to check the oil (time after run, dipstick screwed in or not, kick/center stand, etc). If someone smokes an engine due to over or under filling the oil, lawyers dictate that there better not be any ambiguity in the manual or the manufacturer will be buying a new engine. So there really isn't any guesswork as to what the correct oil level should be in the engine. Certainly not to the extent that you're implying.



One of the guys that flies our plane (one of the owners) thinks like you do. He believes that there is error in every gauge, the manufacturer builds in cushion in the limitations, manuals aren't accurate, etc. One of the things he does is use the landing gear as airbrakes, and routinely extends them around 180kts, and the limit is 177. He says it isn't a problem, because of the aforementioned reasons. It's been fine for 9 years, but the last time I flew it after him I had a flickering gear unsafe light after retraction. It turns out that we have a bent gear door that got tweaked from an overspeed. It took a while for his sloppy flying to bite him, but it did. So, will overfilling the crankcase destroy an engine? Probably not. But if the engine is getting rid of the extra oil and stops losing it when it reaches the "full" line, then there's a pretty good chance it's into the crankshaft, the oil is getting frothed up, and you're pushing air along with oil in the galleys. What lubricates better, oil, or an oil/air mixture? If you had a choice, which one would you want in your engine?



If you're the type that shoots for "good enough" and thinks they know more about their engine than the manufacturer, then good for you. These engines are tough and can take sloppy maintenance practices in stride. But I don't think it's too cool to push that mindset in a public forum that folks pay to participate in to get accurate information. But that's just me.



Maybe the DTR is more your speed?

 

[Tractorat]

Wow...

I didnt thiink this simple issue would cause such a firestorm.



My truck is an early 02. I bought it the week after 9/11. The number that I see stamped on the dip stick is 3937748. If someone has an early 02, and gets a chance to verify that part number, I would appreciate it. Im also going to measure the distance from the "handle" to the fill mark. If anyone knows what that measure is for an early 02, I would be interested in hearing that as well.

 

[cerberusiam]

Yeah, kinda ticks ya off when you have someone ask you to back up your opinions with facts, doesn't it?

Nah, doesn't bother me a bit when self proclaimed epxerts like you start the nay saying because they can't read it in an owners manual, a shop manual, or whatever other publication they bless as the truth. I really feel sorry for people like that are unable to think critically or outside the neat little box their world consists. You miss so much of the ricj knowledge available to those that can get beyond their limited perceptions.

I don't think the relationship between the oil level and how long the truck sits is news to anyone here. However, I haven't owned or operated something with an engine where the manufacturer didn't prescribe the conditions for which they wanted the owner to check the oil (time after run, dipstick screwed in or not, kick/center stand, etc).

Obviously its pretty new to you cuz you can't seem to grok what it means. Of course, since you read it somewhere it would NEVER occur to you to question why the flip-flop when nothing else seems to change except the perceptions. Again, thinking in that tight little mind set tends to limit your potential for even understanding the nuances.



Yeah right, :-laf all manufacturesr specify the exact parameters for everything and how it should be done. They can't figure out if the dip stick is mis-marked or the oil is really overfull so they publish a TSB to only put 10 quarts in uless you get a speciual item then you can use 11.



FYI, the oiling system is used as a large part of engine and piston cooling. Less oil IS less cooling, especially under the use these engines are designed for. Hmmmm, I guess 11 is "good enough" for you and your driveway queen trophy truck. Me, I would really like to have optimum oil (12 quarts by the way as proven by MANY people bothe here and elsewhere AND some extensive use scenarios) when I use my truck for something other than a grocery getter.



I sincerely hope you never have to go in for a warranty issue, your life is gonna a drastic turn when you figure how it really works. :{

But I don't think it's too cool to push that mindset in a public forum that folks pay to participate in to get accurate information. But that's just me.



Maybe the DTR is more your speed?

The problem is you don't THINK, only absorb what is spoon fed to you in approved venues. So you think your info is so accurate, just what is the real source? Cummins? Don't think so when you are quoting a Dodge manual. Wonder how many times Dodge says one thing and Cummins just raises their hands and says its their problem, hmmmm? That NEVER happens, right? :-laf



Ever get Dodge to tell you what the EGT limit is? Guess that doesn't come up to often where you live. How about the the wonderful LP and its adequacy sworn to by all and sundry? How does the "official" line compare to reality there? Oh MY!!! There are actual discrpencies documented!!! Of course, you will never hear them beacuse if it isn't int he manual it doesn't exist and you refuse to process it.



You airplane story is pretty funny, and shows just what you exhibit in every other thing you discuss. You are obviously on a mission to blame this other person for SOMETHING and prove his ideas wrong, even if it takes 9 years. It never occured to you simply stress or possibly another event is responsible did it? Maybe you oughta be looking at the guy that is doing the annuals and see what ELSE he is missing, hmmmm?



Oh yeah, my uncle is ceritfied A&P in medium to large jets, passenger and freight. Really want to know how much safety factor is built in to a LOT of the pieces and systems? Want to know the differences in safety factors from freight to passenger? Want to know what goes on in these annual inspections for differnt planes and different companies?



Oh yeah, its not in your life manual so it can't be worth while. You definitely would fit in on the DTR, you got the attitude. :-laf:-laf

 

[cerberusiam]

Wow...

I didnt thiink this simple issue would cause such a firestorm.

Nah, this is just lively debate. Me, I am mild as milk and don't get upset over most of the narrow minded views. Wait until he piddles in the wrong person's puddle, THEN you will see some fireworks. :-laf:-laf

 

[Tractorat]

Nah, this is just lively debate. Me, I am mild as milk and don't get upset over most of the narrow minded views. Wait until he piddles in the wrong person's puddle, THEN you will see some fireworks.

"



Ha ha, yeh. I know. I get a real kick out of some of the discussions here. Especially on the political forum. I often wonder how "lively" some would be in person

 

[AWeiman]

"



Ha ha, yeh. I know. I get a real kick out of some of the discussions here. Especially on the political forum. I often wonder how "lively" some would be in person

probably about as wild as a box of kittens. :-laf

 

[AWeiman]

Wow...

I didnt thiink this simple issue would cause such a firestorm.



My truck is an early 02. I bought it the week after 9/11. The number that I see stamped on the dip stick is 3937748. If someone has an early 02, and gets a chance to verify that part number, I would appreciate it. Im also going to measure the distance from the "handle" to the fill mark. If anyone knows what that measure is for an early 02, I would be interested in hearing that as well.

that part number is the one that geno's lists for dipsticks for 01 and 02 trucks. so i measured mine and it was 41. 5 or 42 inches handle to full mark. however after i measured i look and the part number is not the same as yours so my measurements may be of no use.

 

[Diesel Gunner]

"Obviously its pretty new to you cuz you can't seem to grok what it means. "



"Grok"?



WTF??? Geez!? I see fallibility. You are not a GOD.



$0. 02

 

[Tractorat]

that part number is the one that geno's lists for dipsticks for 01 and 02 trucks. so i measured mine and it was 41. 5 or 42 inches handle to full mark. however after i measured i look and the part number is not the same as yours so my measurements may be of no use.

Thanks, I would have expected the same part number. Im going to measure the dip stick on my truck expecting it to be the 41. 5



Mike

 

[SRadke]

I've worked with 6B series engines in pickups, bus', trucks, tractors, and excavators. I always use 3 gallons and I never have problems.

 

[HBarlow]

this is straight from both the owners manuals from my two trucks.
2001: "the engine capacity is 10 quarts in the crankcase and 1 quart in the lubricating oil filter. "
2006: "the engine capacity is 11 quarts in the crankcase and 1 quart in lubricating oil filter. "

'01 manual states"never operate with the oil level below the add mark or above the safe mark", the '06 states something very similar.

just the facts, do with this info what you will.

Yep, I agree.

My previous '01 and '06 came from Dodge with the same owner's manuals and the same Cummins oil pans as yours. 11 quarts in the '01, 12 in the '06.