Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) dip stick mystery

[Harlacher]

I am really enjoying this, how such a small issue can bring out so much good information.

 

[cerberusiam]

"Obviously its pretty new to you cuz you can't seem to grok what it means. "



"Grok"?



WTF??? Geez!? I see fallibility. You are not a GOD.



$0. 02

:-laf:-laf



Its an industry term, like borken.

 

[Harlacher]

I think Grok came from the book "Stranger in a Strange land". It was the Martian word for non-understanding if I remember right. I read it in the early 70s,written by Robert Heinlein. Had to be good if I remember words from it.

 

[PC12Driver]

Nah, doesn't bother me a bit when self proclaimed epxerts like you start the nay saying because they can't read it in an owners manual, a shop manual, or whatever other publication they bless as the truth. I really feel sorry for people like that are unable to think critically or outside the neat little box their world consists. You miss so much of the ricj knowledge available to those that can get beyond their limited perceptions.









Obviously its pretty new to you cuz you can't seem to grok what it means. Of course, since you read it somewhere it would NEVER occur to you to question why the flip-flop when nothing else seems to change except the perceptions. Again, thinking in that tight little mind set tends to limit your potential for even understanding the nuances.



Yeah right, :-laf all manufacturesr specify the exact parameters for everything and how it should be done. They can't figure out if the dip stick is mis-marked or the oil is really overfull so they publish a TSB to only put 10 quarts in uless you get a speciual item then you can use 11.



FYI, the oiling system is used as a large part of engine and piston cooling. Less oil IS less cooling, especially under the use these engines are designed for. Hmmmm, I guess 11 is "good enough" for you and your driveway queen trophy truck. Me, I would really like to have optimum oil (12 quarts by the way as proven by MANY people bothe here and elsewhere AND some extensive use scenarios) when I use my truck for something other than a grocery getter.



I sincerely hope you never have to go in for a warranty issue, your life is gonna a drastic turn when you figure how it really works. :{









The problem is you don't THINK, only absorb what is spoon fed to you in approved venues. So you think your info is so accurate, just what is the real source? Cummins? Don't think so when you are quoting a Dodge manual. Wonder how many times Dodge says one thing and Cummins just raises their hands and says its their problem, hmmmm? That NEVER happens, right? :-laf



Ever get Dodge to tell you what the EGT limit is? Guess that doesn't come up to often where you live. How about the the wonderful LP and its adequacy sworn to by all and sundry? How does the "official" line compare to reality there? Oh MY!!! There are actual discrpencies documented!!! Of course, you will never hear them beacuse if it isn't int he manual it doesn't exist and you refuse to process it.



You airplane story is pretty funny, and shows just what you exhibit in every other thing you discuss. You are obviously on a mission to blame this other person for SOMETHING and prove his ideas wrong, even if it takes 9 years. It never occured to you simply stress or possibly another event is responsible did it? Maybe you oughta be looking at the guy that is doing the annuals and see what ELSE he is missing, hmmmm?



Oh yeah, my uncle is ceritfied A&P in medium to large jets, passenger and freight. Really want to know how much safety factor is built in to a LOT of the pieces and systems? Want to know the differences in safety factors from freight to passenger? Want to know what goes on in these annual inspections for differnt planes and different companies?



Oh yeah, its not in your life manual so it can't be worth while. You definitely would fit in on the DTR, you got the attitude. :-laf:-laf

Cool! Thanks for the psyche eval! But, for one to be a "self-proclaimed expert", don't they have to proclaim that they're an expert?



Nice touch bringing in the expert uncle. I could tell you exactly what the answers to all those questions are though. Takes a bit more than an A&P to impress me.



You have no idea who I am, what I do, or my educational background, so I pretty much laughed this one off. But it does pretty clearly illuminate the quaility of the source.



So let's wrap this up since this has obviously become personal for you. The original poster was wondering what was happening to his extra oil. Your answer is to put 12 quarts in, regardless of the actual specified capacity or markings on the dipstick, and just let it disappear, correct? Even though there obviously something going on mechanically inside the engine that is bringing the oil level back down to the full mark?

 

[PC12Driver]

FYI, the oiling system is used as a large part of engine and piston cooling. Less oil IS less cooling, especially under the use these engines are designed for. Hmmmm, I guess 11 is "good enough" for you and your driveway queen trophy truck. Me, I would really like to have optimum oil (12 quarts by the way as proven by MANY people bothe here and elsewhere AND some extensive use scenarios) when I use my truck for something other than a grocery getter.

Ooopsie, I got wrapped up in the personal attack and forgot to address this one.



Our engines have a oil-to-coolant heat exchanger built-in. I've yet to see a variation in oil temperature (I've had a oil temp guage installed since 2003) in relation to a change in oil quantity within the safe zone on the dipstick. The oil temp is always within 5* of coolant temp, as you would expect with a setup like this.



The less oil=less cooling thing is correct for other engines, just not ours.

 

[Tractorat]

that part number is the one that geno's lists for dipsticks for 01 and 02 trucks. so i measured mine and it was 41. 5 or 42 inches handle to full mark. however after i measured i look and the part number is not the same as yours so my measurements may be of no use

AWeiman

Thanks for checking the length of the dip stick. That's what mine measures out to be. I knew it would. But, just wanted to make sure when I make them fill it only to the fill line



So, here is a question for you guys that change your own oil. How long do you let the truck sit and drain for ? When I used to change my own oil, I think I used to let the car drain for a good half hour. Thats probably not realistic at an oil change place. Which would bring up the other question. Those, who like me, take their trucks to the local "Jiffy Lube", what do you tell them to get a correct fill ? Or do you get the correct fill there ?

 

[AWeiman]

i normally try to pull the plug and leave it drain for 20 to 30 minutes.

 

[cerberusiam]

When I used to change my own oil, I think I used to let the car drain for a good half hour. Thats probably not realistic at an oil change place. Which would bring up the other question. Those, who like me, take their trucks to the local "Jiffy Lube", what do you tell them to get a correct fill ? Or do you get the correct fill there ?

Yeah, 20 to 30 minutes with the engine hot or you are leaving as much as quart in the galleries that will eventually drain back into the pan. If the dip stick is off just a little the tube is not seated all the way, or even the gasket in the pull end is interfering with it seating you fill to the full line and you could be 1-2 quarts, or more, over full.



Once the engine is running its not an issue but on startup its possible that the crank could be causing aeration and thats causing a little oil loss. Some engine sjust seem to use a little off the top even with 12 quarts and then its happy, others it doesn't seem to matter.



Thats why I said drain it for 30 minutes hot, change the filter and add 12 quarts. That will give you a base for seeing what the dipstick reads when its full and if it will use a any of it.



I don't check them cold, always after the engine is fully warmed and about 5 minutes after shutting down. My experience is that gives the most reliable readings.



If all your seeing is a quart or less loss between oil changes I wouldn't even worry about it. Expect a quart at least on a diesel, worked or not. I have been told 2 or 3 quarts between oil changes when your really working the engine is normal.

 

[Tractorat]

I don't check them cold, always after the engine is fully warmed and about 5 minutes after shutting down. My experience is that gives the most reliable readings.

Thanks for that.



The manual says to check it after its been sitting overnight. But, I finally asked my son-in-law who is one of the top 30 Mercedes techs in the US (Probably even higher than that, but they didnt tell anyone how they ranked after they selected the top 5) (I dont like to lean on him too much). He said what you say. So, with the two of you saying that, its good enough for me.

 

[cojhl2]

Well you guys are way too particular!!!

I bring it in the shop hot, pull the plug, wait and without ever getting back up put the plug back in and I'm ready to put new oil back in.

Put on a new filter and restart it right away.

I do this with the tractors also and have done it that way for over 60 years.

Remember , "the solution to pollution is dilution"