Do I need additional gauges ?

[Dreamer]

My 2005 Automatic is bone stock. I will be towing a 12000 lb trailer through mountains and wonder if I really need an EGT gauge, trans. temp, boost or are there enough warning systems already on the truck or do I need aftermarket gauges ?

 

[cojhl2]

Unless you are a motor head and know how to run the engine based on those gauges, I would not spend the money.

Having said that, for me I want all the gauges that I can get.

 

[AEdelheit]

A trans temp gauge is allways a good idea, as long as the engine is stock additional gauges are not necessary

 

[AH64ID]

The only thing I would consider is a trans temp. Boost and EGT are really irrelevant on a stock motor with the way they are tuned for emissions.

 

[cerberusiam]

The only "warning" system is a trans temp gauge that comes on too late to be proactive about it. The engine has no protective measures, just limits to boost which limits fuel. Won't make a difference if you have injectors go south but given everything is good you likely won't have problems.

For a stock truck and towing: a trans temp gauge tapped into the front cooler line, a lockup switch, and a boost fooler are good investments. A boost and pyro are not needed but are nice to monitor and get used to the stock settings so you can see what changes when you start modding it.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Even when stock I like having a pyro. When the cruise is on the throttle returns to the idle postion and you just don't know how hard the truck is working.

 

[Bob4x4]

The only "warning" system is a trans temp gauge that comes on too late to be proactive about it. The engine has no protective measures, just limits to boost which limits fuel. Won't make a difference if you have injectors go south but given everything is good you likely won't have problems.

For a stock truck and towing: a trans temp gauge tapped into the front cooler line, a lockup switch, and a boost fooler are good investments. A boost and pyro are not needed but are nice to monitor and get used to the stock settings so you can see what changes when you start modding it.

Why a boost fooler on a stock truck???

 

[cerberusiam]

Why a boost fooler on a stock truck???

The stock system is limited to 30 psi, 35-37 psi will take a couple hundred degrees off the max EGT's under a hard pull.

 

[AH64ID]

The stock system is limited to 30 psi, 35-37 psi will take a couple hundred degrees off the max EGT's under a hard pull.

At the expense of insane drive pressure.

I would routinely see 32 psi on my 05 on stock tuning, same on my dad's 06.

 

[cerberusiam]

Bounce to 32 and settle at 30, all it would do stock. 2 psi is just the gauge and\or location differences.

The difference between 30 psi and 35 psi is 100-200 degrees EGT's, again depending on truck and gauge, but there is a noticeable difference.

Drive pressures at 35 psi are not that bad, engine load dependent, and really don't cause problems. On the positive side, it does limit the ability to over speed the turbine plus it spools down slower when you lift quickly off the throttle. Worst offender is the 3rd event when it activates but that can be driven around.

 

[AH64ID]

Drive pressures at 35 psi are not that bad, engine load dependent, and really don't cause problems. On the positive side, it does limit the ability to over speed the turbine plus it spools down slower when you lift quickly off the throttle. Worst offender is the 3rd event when it activates but that can be driven around.

Have your towed with a drive pressure gauge on a HE351? At 35 psi I would see 45-50 psi of drive pressure, while the 5. 9 isn't as effected by it there is lost efficiency.

I have always under stood excessive drive pressure to increase turbine overspeed, not reduce it.

What's interesting is the OEM boost map is set to fully open the WG at ~25 psi, but that is just the command valve and not the actual WG.

At least on the 2 trucks I have seen they would hold 32, but it could be gauge readings.

 

[cerberusiam]

I have towed anywhere from 6-14k on every interstate and pass in the Northwest from Cabbage to Whitebird, I5 and I15 from the north border to south border, and 4 round trips from sea to shining sea either thru Wyoming or Arizona. I have done secitons of it stock and sections with various tunes on the Smarty. As a rule, keeping the rpms under 2500 keeps the DP in the 1 to 1. 2-1. 4 range. Much better with the Smarty because I don't need the rpms to make the power and that really helps. Over 2500 rpms I see a significant jump in DP, worse stock from the 3rd event. On a good grade and 3200 rpms in drive I could push boost to 42 psi, the DP gauge was pegged at 60 psi before it hit 40 psi. :-laf When I changed gauges I figure that was right 1:2 ratio.



The CR engine in its stock form is a mass of inefficiencies, trying to single out drive pressure as being a big problem is like not seeing the forest for the trees. Yes, it is not optimal but neither is the valve timing, or combustion chamber, or timing, etc. Advane the timing a bit, raise the boost a bit, even if you run a little high DP at times, and it won't hurt a thing. Stock, a little cooler EGT's than normal is a little less heat soak in the cylinder and little more peace of mind is all.



The cheap mods like air box restirction rmeoval and muffler removal or changes helped a bit also. I just lately removed the CAT and now need to test to see how much it was effecting EGT's and DP if any.



I have more problems with bark or surge under 30 psi than I do over it. The excess drive pressure takes a while to bleed thru the turbo when you remove the throttle suddenly so the turbine spools down slower. Higher DP at higher flow is going to self limit the turbo for pressure as there is only so much room to stuff it thru fast enough to keep boost rising. Comparions to a 16 cm housing and roughly the same size compressor are noticeable in how high how fast it will go and how fast it comes down. IMO, the small housing and higher DP provide a bit of a safety valve.

What's interesting is the OEM boost map is set to fully open the WG at ~25 psi, but that is just the command valve and not the actual WG.

That is 25 psi of manifold pressure not neccessarily turbo pressure plus the restriction in the actuator bleed circuits. Factor in at least 3 psi difference from turbo to mnaifold and a little more for waste in the actuator and that sounds about right, a 5 psi difference.

 

[Bob4x4]

I have always had improved intake and exhaust since I added monitoring. Mid 30s while towing or hard accell. I tryed a quad boost fooler and never saw a change in Egts. Boost I saw no change either but I use the factory sensor to read off

 

[ward564]

I would get a EGT gauge for sure. I have a stock 05 auto and have pulled a 6k-10k bumper pull trailer and a 10k-13k fifth wheel with this truck. The first couple years of ownership I pulled the smaller trailer with out gauges thinking that being stock I didn't have to worry about the EGT's. After getting the edge attitude monitor (no power adding just the gauges) I was suprised to see my EGT's going over 1350 on most of the hills that I have to climb. In third gear I hit 1350deg long before I run out of power. Pulling the big trailer I have enough motor to pull the hills in 2nd gear at 55-60 but EGT's make me back down to about 45mph. Outside temp makes a big difference, when pulling the big trailer up the same hill the difference from 30deg - 100deg outside temp changed how fast I could pull the hill by 15mph. I am pulling in Arizona going from about 1200ft to 6500ft, lots of hills. I would recommend a exhaust brake also. You can get a factory dodge single gauge pillar(with grab handle) and EGT gauge from Geno's

 

[AH64ID]

I would get a EGT gauge for sure. I have a stock 05 auto and have pulled a 6k-10k bumper pull trailer and a 10k-13k fifth wheel with this truck. The first couple years of ownership I pulled the smaller trailer with out gauges thinking that being stock I didn't have to worry about the EGT's. After getting the edge attitude monitor (no power adding just the gauges) I was suprised to see my EGT's going over 1350 on most of the hills that I have to climb. In third gear I hit 1350deg long before I run out of power. Pulling the big trailer I have enough motor to pull the hills in 2nd gear at 55-60 but EGT's make me back down to about 45mph. Outside temp makes a big difference, when pulling the big trailer up the same hill the difference from 30deg - 100deg outside temp changed how fast I could pull the hill by 15mph. I am pulling in Arizona going from about 1200ft to 6500ft, lots of hills. I would recommend a exhaust brake also. You can get a factory dodge single gauge pillar(with grab handle) and EGT gauge from Geno's

This is the #1 reason why a pyro can be a bad thing on a stock 04. 5-07. 1350° is 100% normal and acceptable, in fact they will touch 1450° in stock form. It's all in how the timing is setup for emissions. A 05 with 1450° will have less heat soak in the cylinder than a 02 with 1200° based on timing alone.

You are needlessly limiting your power.

It's a stock truck, unless something has failed your EGT's are acceptable where they are so let it run.

 

[cerberusiam]

I was suprised to see my EGT's going over 1350 on most of the hills that I have to climb. In third gear I hit 1350deg long before I run out of power. Pulling the big trailer I have enough motor to pull the hills in 2nd gear at 55-60 but EGT's make me back down to about 45mph.

Good reason right there why EGT gauges were not included, causes mass confusion with the drivers. Dodge would have never been done answering questions and explaining the intricacies if they had.

The emissions design on the 04. 5 engines create more heat in the exhaust and less heat soak in the cylinder than a 12V at the top of its range. The engines were design with better valves and piston cooling to handle the uprated power. On a stock engine there is no reason to back off, the tuning all ready takes care of that.

 

[AH64ID]

Good reason right there why EGT gauges were not included, causes mass confusion with the drivers. Dodge would have never been done answering questions and explaining the intricacies if they had.

Look at what happened with the oil pressure gauge, and that's simple.