2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Do I still need a DT Trac Bar?

[InThinAir]

So I installed a Darin Steering Stablizer over the weekend. Boy did that make a difference in the stability of the steering! I would recommend this product to everyone. Easy install and very high quality stuff. And as a bonus I got to meet a great TDR member in my area!



So here is my question. I know I also need a trac bar. Can I possilbly expect the Moog replacement to last any longer because I have a DSS installed. I was gonna go with a DT but if that much trac bar is now not needed maybe I can save myself a day of install and some $$$ and put in a Moog.





---Doug

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Boy doesn't everyone need one?



I can honestly say thet after I did the DSS i was wowed. Really the truck turned more responsively in parking lots , wandered less , and overall had a tighter feel.



THEN on went a DT trackbar. That was like the missing piece of the puzzle. It was now a pleasure to once again drive (If you can have pleasure on I-95) on I-95. The center lane is all sunk in from tractor trailers , and most of the traffic. Before the bar the road would take the truck and sling it side to side badly. Now after the DT , it holds quite well. IMHO it was worth the buy.



Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with DT profab etc etc just a happy customer who eats horribly , drinks too much coffee and can't stay off the TDR

 

[DLausche]

I'm not sure about the Moog or it's quality/strengths/weaknesses, but in general I wouldn't expect the DSS (or lack of) to have much effect on the longevity of any trac bar. The trac bar only locates the axle side to side and allows for up/down movement. The DSS won't (shouldn't!) absorb any of the side to side forces that, IMHO, are what cause the trac bar to wear faster than one might typically expect. The trac bar joints have to withstand great force as it keeps the heavy front of the truck centered exactly over the axle which is gripping the ground, going arround corners, hitting potholes, etc.



I have a DT and I really like it. I think there are other cheaper alternatives out there though that will work fine too.



Thats my 2c worth.



-Deon

 

[InThinAir]

Ok, it sounds like I should still think about the DT. I guess my hesitation is with drilling holes! The install looks to be a little scary. I do not like giving the truck to anyone to do work on it. And I have a lot of try. But can an average wrench do this job? And is it something I could really get into trouble doing?



---Doug

 

[DLausche]

I feel the same as you about others working on my truck - only when absolutely necessary!



You will be happy with a DT. It takes a bit of time to install, not a lot, but it isn't a 30 minute job. The DT instructions are laid out fairly well and walk you through the steps. I remember the hardest part was drilling the 1/2" holes in the back side of the frame crossmember. Only difficult because of the overhead position of the the drill whilst laying on ones back and the time it took to drill through the crossmember. My 1/2" 90* angle drill came in really handy here. Don't know if it can be done without a 90* drill. Maybe someone else has more info on that. The only other issue I ran into was the way big open end wrenches needed to tighten the joints on the DT trac bar. I seem to remember having to buy 3 and they were $25 or so each. Don't have the sizes on hand, but could find them in my tool box and test fit them and let you know the sizes if that would help out.



Oh, don't forget the DT won't work with an aftermarket front diff cover like the mag-hytec. The clearance is very close with the stock cover on.



-Deon

 

[InThinAir]

Yes that would be a big help. I know that it may sound stupid but I wish that all instructions would give you the tools needed for the job. The set up I have makes it take me longer to get tools out that I thought I didn't need than it takes me to do the work. I have a small section of my driveway that is level and it is about 200 yards away from my tool box. So I end up just grabbing 5 sets of sockets and wrenches to try to save time. Then I need a needle nose plier then I need a screwdriver!! Then I need a 1 1/4" deep well socket. which I don't even own!!!



---Doug

 

[stg2500]

This is one of the Bombs that It think I will have to do this spring/summer. I just had the truck at the dealer to repair my back door that would not open and had them check my sterring wandering while it was there. they said that nothing was worn! I drove my friends truck this weekend and it was driving like it was on rails. They are both the same year truck with similar mileage.



Does the addition of the DSS or DT trac bar require an alignment after installation?



Would it also be worth it to go through the entire front end and replace all of the tie rod ends with Lukes Links at the same time?



I just want to be able to drive down the road without having to constantly turn the wheel to keep the truck straight!

 

[DLausche]

Ok, maybe the wrenches are not "way big" like my previous post. They were bigger than I had at the time. I just checked and there are 3 wrench sizes needed to tighten the jamb nuts on the DT. They are 1-1/8, 1-3/8, and 1-5/8 and obviously must be open-end wrenches.



stg2500, The addition of the DSS most definitely does not affect alignment at all, it just stiffens up the steering box output shaft. I doubt the DT would require an alignment either. Your steering linkage is different than mine. Mine is the inverted "T" setup. Yours is the inverted "Y" setup, I think. I don't think the DT install will really affect the toe in/out on either style and would probably not require an alignment. You will probably notice the steering wheel being off center, but this doesn't necessarily mean it is now out of alignment. Adjusting the length of the DT can/will bring the steering wheel back to center again. I'd would wait on the Luke's link idea until after the DT and DSS is in if thats what you plan to do. You will probably find that cures all of your problems. It did for me.



I didn't do an alignment after I did my DT because I knew the toe was properly set just prior to that project. If you are not sure about your alignment before you start, then I guess I go ahead and have it aligned once you are done with both installs. Make sure to get the DT length (and steering wheel center) at least close before you bring it in for an alignment though.



-Deon

 

[stg2500]

How do you know when you have the DT length adjusted correctly? Is it based on centering the steering wheel?

 

[DLausche]

Originally posted by stg2500

How do you know when you have the DT length adjusted correctly? Is it based on centering the steering wheel?

The DT comes with a simple tool that you use on each side of the axle that allows you to center the axle to the frame. I did this and the steering wheel was off by just a few inches. It only took a small adjustment to the DT and the steering wheel was back on center. Axle maybe not perfectly centered now, but awfully close and at least it as good as it was when it left the factory. You can also adjust the length of the draglink coming from the steering gear. Adjusting this one should not affect the toe in/out setting and will also bring the steering wheel back to center.



I also discarded the spacer behind the right front wheel when I did this job.



Another thing I forgot to mention is to make sure and use anti-seize on the tapered aluminum bushing that goes in the tapered upper ball joint hole where the original trac bar attached. I've heard stories of them seizing in place and being difficult to remove later if needed.



-Deon

 

[Hohn]

Uh OH! I forgot to use anti-seize!!



I was able to drill the crossmember with my milwaukee 1/2" regular drill. It takes some maneuvering, but it's doable.



As for the DT-- YES YES YES!! I got mine because I ruined my OEM piece installing my D25s. The Moog DOES have a lifetime warrantee, but it won't last much longer than stock. So while you won't have to pay for a new bar again, you WILL have to do the work of replacing it.



The DT bar will last almost forever, and if the ends DO wear, you can replace the ends in about 10 minutes with $30 in parts. The biggest advantage of the DT bar is that it changes the poor design-- it gets to the root of the problem and fixes the CAUSE.



Anything short of re-engineering the track bar (like the DT bar does) is really just putting on a band-aid.



I don't have a DSS yet, but the DT alone makes a HUGe difference. Between the DT track bar, the DSS, and Luke's linking the tie rod ends, you can have an almost lifetime-lasting steering setup. Well, maybe you need a Borgeson too... .



Justin

 

[JRodgers]

Where does one get a DSS?

 

[willyslover]

Joe. . Piers has them in stock

 

[ramonram]

frontend

excellent post in thin air, my front end was high on the list of "to do" all of the replys answered all my questions and procedure, don't ya just love this site!!! thanks guy's, ramonram

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

I just installed my DSS with a OEM new power steering gear box to boot. Talk about a difference, I now can change lanes with up or down movement of my wrist with my arm resting to the door. Road "feel" is improved and I now can feel the bend in the steering stabilizer that needs to be replaced for the last year . Another item is I replace the power steering fluid with Valvoline synthetic steering fluid,old stuff was very brown and burnt and the power steering growl is gone, also it seems like the power assist for the brakes is easier and faster. I checked my old PS gearbox for slop and it wasn't outside of specs, but the lower seal was just starting to leak, and I got a killer deal on a new PS gear box, so I swapped it out. I got my DSS from Piers and I would compare the improvement in steering to installing a Borgesen steering shaft on a first gen, the only way to fly !

 

[SOLER]

Originally posted by ToolManTimTaylor

Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with DT profab etc etc just a happy customer who eats horribly , drinks too much coffee and can't stay off the TDR

:-laf:-laf:-laf



I used a regular drill to do mine. I only had a 12. 0 V cordless. It took a few charges on the battery to get the holes drilled. I got a 19. 2 V for Christmas, but this was installed in NOV!! A 90* drill is not absolutely necessary, but will speed things up A LOT!



SOLER

 

[jGiacobbe]

How long is this taking you guys to install? I installed my DSS, but I think the DT may be more than I want to try.



Is this something I could ask a dealer or a garage to do, or am I just asking for trouble? Would also be interested in any recommendations locally if you guys have any suggestions. I'm in Quakertown, PA.



Thanks.

 

[InThinAir]

I talked to a 4x4 shop here in town, Denver, and they said that they would be glad to install it for me. I am not real comfortable with that, but I think they are pretty reasonable in their hourly rate. But you are at their mercy for how much they charge you. I would try to agree upon a price before they start.



I am gonna try to do it myself. I think that it is at least a 4 hour ordeal for a good wrench. I am gonna plan on all day, which tells you my wrenching abilities



---Doug

 

[DLausche]

InThinAir & jGiacobbe, I think you will be fine doing it yourself. The DT instructions are laid out pretty well. Just read, reread, and then doublecheck the instructions to the truck as you go along to make sure you understand each step. Once you have the original trac bar off it would be difficult to get the truck to a shop. You will probably end up destroying the ball joint on the old trac bar getting it off and the truck can't be driven without a trac bar on it.



Make double sure you have all the parts for the DT before you start. I was missing two small but very important spacers for the heim joint.



I would recommend buying a brand new hole saw of the size specified by DT. The sharper the better as the two holes in the crossmember are the most laborious part of the job (IMO).



I think 4 hours would be about right for doing this your first time. 8 hours you should be done easily and already have down a few beers.



-Deon

 

[JSoloman]

So, help me out guys.



I ran into this post and am looking for some advise. It seems I have fallen victim to the tracking bar wearing out and the tie rods loosening after 29,000 miles. Fortunately its under warranty. Staying with stock replacement parts, should I expect this again in another 25-30K? Would a steering stabilizer help eliminate this problem?



The suspension specialist that discovered the problem said that's why he and his staff only own GM. GRRRRRR.