Do v-nose enclosed trailers induce sway?

[NIsaacs]

My son towed this trailer this weekend with his car in it, he said sway was so bad he had to stay at 60 mph and still white knuckles. He was using an equalizer hitch and has air bags. He said down hill he had to slow to 50 mph.

He said it was so bad he had a friend in the group drive the car home.....same uncontrolled trip...no help at all. He weighed the combo, about 13.5k, truck 7k trailer 6.5k.

He used this same trailer and load two years ago but pulled it with his dually. The truck was stable but the trailer wasn't. The owner says it sways his Dodge 4x4 and his Dodge 4x2. He even has sway control but my son didn't hook that up.

I did a Google but not much about the v-nose causing issues. My other son had one for a short time, he said it was really bad too.

The truck is a '21 Ford 250, 4x4, trailer is a 28', 10k rated, torsion axles.

Anyone?

 

[Killer223]

I never had that in mine. I've seen to much tongue weight have sway and also not enough. I'm sure y'all know how to load a trailer to 15-20% tongue weight.
might be worth taking a tape to the tongue and axles to see if square.

 

[JR]

Judging by the picture I'd say tongue weight was more than sufficient....

Did they try adjusting the load at all while the car was in there?

I'm assuming a thorough inspection of the trailer was done, leaf springs, u bolts, etc.

Folks had a similar sized enclosed for sleds many years ago. Ran that trailer all over Wyoming with no sway issues but do remember having to pry my nails out of the steering wheel a time or two when high winds kicked up. Scary feeling for sure.

 

[NIsaacs]

might be worth taking a tape to the tongue and axles to see if square.

This is what he would like to do. He thinks something is wrong and is baffled that it is so bad. If it wont tow empty....

 

[NIsaacs]

Ran that trailer all over Wyoming with no sway issues but do remember having to pry my nails out of the steering wheel a time or two when high winds kicked up. Scary feeling for sure.

The wind was bad both directions, worse on the empty trip. They did not move the car but he said it was right. My oldest son followed him both ways and was amazed at the trailer action and accused him of being drunk, Lol He has a flat faced enclosed that pulls fine. I pulled it one time and it was like it wasn't there. I would love to try this one but don't want to insult anyone

They thought about switching trailers but didn't. My oldest was using his dually pulling this trailer. I can't come up with a reason for what was going on.

 

[Tuesdak]

Judging by the picture I'd say tongue weight was more than sufficient....

I suggest it’s too much tongue weight. The nose of the pickup is sky high and the rear squatting. I would like to see the axel weights for an exact tongue weight. I would not be surprised if the front axle of the pickup is lighter when the trailer is hooked up.

Loaded or not the balance of the trailer may always be off say from bad axel placement.

 

[JR]

I suggest it’s too much tongue weight.

Agreed, that was kind of the point. A truck that sits like that with air bags sure seems to be overloaded....

But on the other hand if Nick says it was right I believe it is. Could just be optics. The trailer looks to be level if not real close. If Nick didn't publish the weights I'd of guessed he was just plain over loaded.

 

[Timd32]

I felt silly a few weeks ago bringing it across the scales, 1. Because I had no clue how to do it, 2. Because it seemed like such a small load compared to the monster loads folks pull on here.

But I'm glad I did because folks were able to comment on the reduction of steer axle weight on my exact set up.

I could physically where I placed the small 4k van on the trailer was raising the front end visually, I really needed to go back maybe a foot more.

It's pretty much a crap shoot to guess.

But if this is his regular trailer and set up might be worth it.

It's misleading looking at the picture but the front end seems higher.

I'm no pro obviously by my posts, but fine tuning these can be a little bit of a chore as you know.

 

[Wiredawg]

Is it using an equalizer hitch? Long pull behind box trailer heavy on the front? (depending on how far forward the trailered vehicle is?). Not sure if I'm correct tow vehicle has suspension mods, might want to check if the alter suspension affects towing and hauling GVWR and/or GCWR.

 

[NIsaacs]

He was using an equalizer hitch and has air bags.

It is really hard to help someone when you don't know exact specifics. I do have a lot of faith in all the boys towing experience but not as much as dad, lol.

I just cant understand how an empty 6.5k trailer could upset a 3/4 ton truck. I have towed way bigger trailers than that with my old '70, F-100 4x2.

I don't know if the picture is with the car or without. He tried several air settings, from 30 psi to 5 psi, that is the lowest the wireless remote control will go. On the way back empty, he took the bars clear off the hitch, with no help.

He said he is not going to use it ever again Remember, he said it swayed with his dually, the truck didn't but the trailer did. Also, remember, the owner says the same thing, so...IDK

 

[GAmes]

I picked up a 40 ft travel trailer from a rental company once that was to be used as temp housing after a storm in Houston. The manager advised me that it swayed pretty bad. As I installed the weight distribution hitch he was incredulous that I would use one with a duelly. He said his 2500 Dodge 2nd gen didn't need a WD hitch. I didn't have a bit of trouble with sway. The moral to that is is there are many people who don't realize how important it is to load the steer axle.

If your son had a WD hitch (and the trailer was loaded correctly) and it swayed then the culprit is the trailer's suspension. Air bags don't make much of a difference, they just raise and lower the pivot point. I've towed dozens of utility trailers with V noses and none of them swayed.

There isn't a sway gimmick hitch made that will stop real trailer sway. They sure make a lot of salesmen rich that sell them though.

 

[AH64ID]

Low tongue weight is the leading cause of trailer sway. V-nose should be tolerant of lower tongue weight than a flat front. It doesn’t matter the size of the truck if the tongue weight is too low.

It looks to have adequate tongue weight, but was it measured?

If tongue weight was adequate then I would look to mechanical issues with the trailer.

 

[NIsaacs]

I suggest it’s too much tongue weight. The nose of the pickup is sky high and the rear squatting.

He does have a reverse level kit, he removed the rear 2" block, so when loaded with the right hitch weight, it will be low on the rear. He has hauled several vehicles with it on my old 20' equipment trailer with no issues. I don't think the front is light.

 

[NIsaacs]

It looks to have adequate tongue weight, but was it measured?

It was not weighed. I have never weighed a hitch in my life.

 

[AH64ID]

The axles are far enough back that it should be plenty empty and properly loaded.

My 0.02 is on a trailer defect or malfunction.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Proper inflation on truck tires for the load??? Looks like the front may be getting unloaded as in too much hitch weight and nothing being added to the front axle. That tends to get very squirrely.

 

[Cummins12V98]

I suggest it’s too much tongue weight. The nose of the pickup is sky high and the rear squatting. I would like to see the axel weights for an exact tongue weight. I would not be surprised if the front axle of the pickup is lighter when the trailer is hooked up.

Loaded or not the balance of the trailer may always be off say from bad axel placement.

100% agree!

Those look like they may be aftermarket tires? Could be soft sidewalls with low inflation.

 

[AH64ID]

It’s happened on other rigs too. A light front end does create slopply handling, but it doesn’t create trailer sway.

 

[JR]

He does have a reverse level kit, he removed the rear 2" block, so when loaded with the right hitch weight, it will be low on the rear. He has hauled several vehicles with it on my old 20' equipment trailer with no issues. I don't think the front is light.

That was the missing link, how could such a light trailer should squat a 3/4 ton pickup like that.

 

[NIsaacs]

You guys are funny, bad as me. He called me both directions asking for help. I asked him all the questions you guys did, nothing stands out. That's why the original question. I think the trailer is suspect. I really don't think the truck is at fault.

Quote from Hensley:

Trailer Sway & V-nose Trailers

Posted on 01.15.13 | Sway Control News, Trailer Sway

Do V-nosed Trailers Tow Better?
#ad

It seems there’s a bit of a myth being spread about by trailer salesman. The claim is that v-nose trailers are more aerodynamic and do not have a tendancy to sway as much as flat-fronted trailers. Travel trailers like the one pictured below seem to be the new industry trend, as manufacturers use every trick at their disposal to create more space with less length.
#ad


Aerodynamic shape?
When I was a first year engineernig student at Lawrence Tech University in Michigan, our instructor put several shapes up on the board and asked which was the most aerodynamic. Almost every student pointed to the V shape.

We were wrong. Our instructor then put up a side view of a Navy jet aircraft. Naturally, any aircraft manufacturer will choose the most aerodynamic shape possible. Our jet aircraft all have a teardrop shape, with the wide end pointing forward. That’s because it is the turbulant air that runs alonside the body of an aircraft, or trailer, that causes the most drag and turbulence.

A V shape does not deter turbulence. In fact, it makes it worse. Now you have wind pushing against two sides and not away from the trailer.

Quotes from another forum.

Also I couldn't help but notice it seemed like the v nose was kind of unstable when getting up to 70+MPH. I pulled it up to around 80MPH just to see how she'd handle and the trailer started walking all over the road...I don't know if it's because of the v, but I felt like it was.

I would like to get a hold of two identical trailers with the only difference being the v and see which one actually does better...I don't think there would be much of a difference at all if any. I think the flat nose would tow better though after seeing how much that v wanted to walk all over the place.

After pulling that trailer I'm not convinced that it saves fuel at all and I don't believe it's as stable as a flat nose...

Well, the day I towed it there was a very good crosswind. I was amazed at how easily the trailer got swaying around. A 24' trailer should not sway constantly.

The trailer he has the v goes almost to the tongue. There's only a couple inches on the tow bars before you get to the v. I know his was all over the place when I towed it on a windy day...kinda scary honestly

Most important, a "V" nose trailer doesn't increase mpg. They do help with clearance when backing up the trailer. Or, there original design was intended to allow unloading small items from the front of the trailer. The real world experience of a V nose trailer is the wind flows down the side of tow vehicle, then wraps around to the inside behind the hauler and flows directly into the flat side of the V. This air flow is hitting both sides of the V at the same time. That air flow causes instability of the trailer. Ask someone that has been pulling a flat front trailer after they change to a "V" nose and their experience should be that it is harder to adjust the stability of the trailer.