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Dodge 4500/5500?
- Thread starter Jim Ross
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Great cab and chassis... we own a 5500 that we keep loaded most of the time... the automatic is a great transmission... we now have 110K miles or so on the truck...
Harsh Ride is an understatement when its empty and when its at gross weight it rides like a half loaded 3500... .
We get about the same mileage with the 5500 as the 3500... . ours has a box on the back...
If you register it as a personal vehicle I don't believe that your fees would be much more than a 3500... ours is registered as a commercial truck and the fees are about 3 times that of a 3500...
We've changed all our trucks to 225/70/19. 5 tires, the same as whats on the 5500... we use new rib Bridgestones on the front... 100K mile tires... . and Bandag retreads on the rear, the same all season tire that UPS uses here in town... . we get 90-100K on the retreads... the new steer tires are 250 something each but the rear retreads are 120 something... maybe 135... so the over all tire cost per mile is less than the 17" tires on the 3500's, that's why we moved all the trucks to 19. 5" wheels...
Harsh Ride is an understatement when its empty and when its at gross weight it rides like a half loaded 3500... .
We get about the same mileage with the 5500 as the 3500... . ours has a box on the back...
If you register it as a personal vehicle I don't believe that your fees would be much more than a 3500... ours is registered as a commercial truck and the fees are about 3 times that of a 3500...
We've changed all our trucks to 225/70/19. 5 tires, the same as whats on the 5500... we use new rib Bridgestones on the front... 100K mile tires... . and Bandag retreads on the rear, the same all season tire that UPS uses here in town... . we get 90-100K on the retreads... the new steer tires are 250 something each but the rear retreads are 120 something... maybe 135... so the over all tire cost per mile is less than the 17" tires on the 3500's, that's why we moved all the trucks to 19. 5" wheels...
The important question is what would you use it for?
If you plan to put a heavy contractor's utility body and a large gasoline powered air compressor on one and drive it loaded every day it would be a good choice.
If you tow a heavy fifth wheel or gooseneck travel trailer full time or nearly full time it would also be a good choice.
As a daily driver, unloaded, it would be a terrible choice. I have not driven a 5500 but drove several 4500s when they were introduced several years ago. My plan was to buy one until I drove them.
The ride, for me, is intolerable. Their top speed is 76 mph, factory computer speed limited due to the speed rating of the tires. And the ones I drove were squirrely. They won't track a straight line. I assume that is not a problem when loaded.
I was forced to compromise and bought a 3500 cab and chassis which has many of the same features and advantages but has a tolerable unloaded ride. My HH fiver has a GVWR of 14,100 lbs. and an Onan generator in the front storage compartment which gives it a very heavy pin weight. My HH is actually a little too heavy for my truck but the truck handles it well. I knew I would hate a 4500 as a daily driver and I remain convinced of that. Several TDR members own and like them so it is a matter of choice.
Everyone prefers to overlook the fact that 4500/5500s have a factory GCWR of only 26,000 lbs. due to the Dana rear axle. My "little" 3500 C&C and HH fifth wheel gross at just under 26,000 lbs. loaded for travel. The 3500 has a factory GCWR of only 24,000 lbs. My truck does a good job of handling the load but . . .
If I were a full time RVer pulling a fiver, even towing the fiver I already own, I would not pull it with anything less than a Navistar 4400.
If you plan to put a heavy contractor's utility body and a large gasoline powered air compressor on one and drive it loaded every day it would be a good choice.
If you tow a heavy fifth wheel or gooseneck travel trailer full time or nearly full time it would also be a good choice.
As a daily driver, unloaded, it would be a terrible choice. I have not driven a 5500 but drove several 4500s when they were introduced several years ago. My plan was to buy one until I drove them.
The ride, for me, is intolerable. Their top speed is 76 mph, factory computer speed limited due to the speed rating of the tires. And the ones I drove were squirrely. They won't track a straight line. I assume that is not a problem when loaded.
I was forced to compromise and bought a 3500 cab and chassis which has many of the same features and advantages but has a tolerable unloaded ride. My HH fiver has a GVWR of 14,100 lbs. and an Onan generator in the front storage compartment which gives it a very heavy pin weight. My HH is actually a little too heavy for my truck but the truck handles it well. I knew I would hate a 4500 as a daily driver and I remain convinced of that. Several TDR members own and like them so it is a matter of choice.
Everyone prefers to overlook the fact that 4500/5500s have a factory GCWR of only 26,000 lbs. due to the Dana rear axle. My "little" 3500 C&C and HH fifth wheel gross at just under 26,000 lbs. loaded for travel. The 3500 has a factory GCWR of only 24,000 lbs. My truck does a good job of handling the load but . . .
If I were a full time RVer pulling a fiver, even towing the fiver I already own, I would not pull it with anything less than a Navistar 4400.
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Thanks for the great info!!!
We are looking at going to something with dual rear wheels and a flatbed set up to pll a 27 ft 5th wheel trailer and we think that a 3500 would be the "lightest" series truck we would want..... and quite possibly the 4500/5500 series are way more than we need.
On more question; are your trucks 4x4 or 2 wheel drive..... if 4x4, do you have any clearance or turning issues with the bigger wheels/tires?
We are looking at going to something with dual rear wheels and a flatbed set up to pll a 27 ft 5th wheel trailer and we think that a 3500 would be the "lightest" series truck we would want..... and quite possibly the 4500/5500 series are way more than we need.
On more question; are your trucks 4x4 or 2 wheel drive..... if 4x4, do you have any clearance or turning issues with the bigger wheels/tires?
All my 4X4's have been changed to flat beds... . for work... but before we installed the flat beds we had problems with the tail end of the bed clearing the trailers when the front of the truck dropped into a dip... . This is a real problem unless your careful or you can accept that the front of the 5er is higher than normal...
Is the reason for the interference between the flatbed and the 5th wheel the height of the installed flatbed or is it because the flatbed extends farther past the rear axle than a pickup bed... . or both?
I have been looking at Bradford Built beds and from what I have seen, they have models that do not extend much (if any) farther behind the rear axle than a factory pickup bed (and their rear corners are cut back) and as far as height goes, I think that issue could be addressed by using a hitch height on the flatbed to make the 5th wheel hitch the same height(or close to it) as what it is in our current 2500 4x4 pickup.
Am I missing something here?
Appreciate your replies, the info will help me make a good decision.
I have been looking at Bradford Built beds and from what I have seen, they have models that do not extend much (if any) farther behind the rear axle than a factory pickup bed (and their rear corners are cut back) and as far as height goes, I think that issue could be addressed by using a hitch height on the flatbed to make the 5th wheel hitch the same height(or close to it) as what it is in our current 2500 4x4 pickup.
Am I missing something here?
Appreciate your replies, the info will help me make a good decision.
My truck is a 2wd. I've never owned a 4x4 and don't want one. However, a new Ram Cab and Chassis uses the standard Ram 4x4 front end assembly and suspension minus the ring and pinion, axle shafts, driveshaft, and transfer case.
If you glance at a C&C from a distance you'll see the "pumpkin" in the center of the front axle and assume it is a 4wd.
Back to your question: My 3500 uses the same 17" wheels and tires as a dually pickup. I have no turning or clearance issues whatsoever. My cut angle is pretty sharp and turning radius similar to or perhaps tighter than previous dually pickups I've owned.
A 3500 C&C would be all the truck you will ever need for a 27' fiver. It would provide a huge weight and safety margin for towing a fiver that probably weighs in at 10k to 12k loaded.
The Aisin 6 speed and 4. 10 gears make an excellent combination for towing or highway cruise.
Edit: The CM flatbed on my truck is about 8 1/2' long but has notched rear corners and provides excellent clearance to the front panels of my fiver when turning.
If you glance at a C&C from a distance you'll see the "pumpkin" in the center of the front axle and assume it is a 4wd.
Back to your question: My 3500 uses the same 17" wheels and tires as a dually pickup. I have no turning or clearance issues whatsoever. My cut angle is pretty sharp and turning radius similar to or perhaps tighter than previous dually pickups I've owned.
A 3500 C&C would be all the truck you will ever need for a 27' fiver. It would provide a huge weight and safety margin for towing a fiver that probably weighs in at 10k to 12k loaded.
The Aisin 6 speed and 4. 10 gears make an excellent combination for towing or highway cruise.
Edit: The CM flatbed on my truck is about 8 1/2' long but has notched rear corners and provides excellent clearance to the front panels of my fiver when turning.
My trucks all have 19. 5" tires that are about 1/2 taller than the stock 17"...
All our flat beds are home built and we've made them a little longer than the stock bed... but like Harvey we've mitered the corners. . We've also added 4" to the hitch on my 5er to move it back... I'm not such a small guy and needed more room to fit between the bed and trailer... .
My trucks are all work trucks and we hate to chain in the winter so they are all 4X4's except the 5500... .
My next group of trucks will be 2WD..... as I move towards retirement... .
Jim - in your last post #6 above I don't fully understand your first couple of sentences, but hope that what I've written and what Harvey has offered has helped...
All our flat beds are home built and we've made them a little longer than the stock bed... but like Harvey we've mitered the corners. . We've also added 4" to the hitch on my 5er to move it back... I'm not such a small guy and needed more room to fit between the bed and trailer... .
My trucks are all work trucks and we hate to chain in the winter so they are all 4X4's except the 5500... .
My next group of trucks will be 2WD..... as I move towards retirement... .
Jim - in your last post #6 above I don't fully understand your first couple of sentences, but hope that what I've written and what Harvey has offered has helped...
Thanks to both of you for the info.
Re my comments in #6 above,... . what I meant to ask was this..... is the problem with the interference between the 5er and the flat bed caused because the platform height of the flat bed is taller than the floor of a regular pickup bed or is there more distance from the axle to the rear end of the flat bed than there is between the rear axle and the rear end of a pickup bed... . or both? Are these reason why you would have a problem when the front end of the truck goes down into a dip?
I have 99% decided that a 3500 is the best choice for us, thanks to the input from you guys. Now the problem is to find a nice 2005-2007 pre-DPF 4x4 in a regular cab version! We do need 4x4 in our part of the world.
Re my comments in #6 above,... . what I meant to ask was this..... is the problem with the interference between the 5er and the flat bed caused because the platform height of the flat bed is taller than the floor of a regular pickup bed or is there more distance from the axle to the rear end of the flat bed than there is between the rear axle and the rear end of a pickup bed... . or both? Are these reason why you would have a problem when the front end of the truck goes down into a dip?
I have 99% decided that a 3500 is the best choice for us, thanks to the input from you guys. Now the problem is to find a nice 2005-2007 pre-DPF 4x4 in a regular cab version! We do need 4x4 in our part of the world.
A flatbed creates a challenge with fifth wheel hitches and fifth wheel trailers due to the vertical height of the top of the bed.
I don't have any experience with installing a flatbed on an ordinary pickup frame but had to work this out on my cab and chassis. A pickup frame is arched over the rear axle not flat like the C&C frames but you will face a similar height challenge.
On the 3500 C&C I own the top of the frame rail of a new and unloaded truck is about 30. 5" above the pavement. A flatbed like my CM bed normally has four inch frame rails parallel to the truck's frame rails and resting on top of them. Then the flatbed uses a series of three inch side to side rails attached on top of the long front to rear rails to support the bed deck. The flatbed deck is usually 1/8" or 3/16" sheet steel. The total height of the flatbed deck is about 7 1/8" above the truck frame rail or almost 38" measured from the pavement.
The kingpin plate of a typical large fifth wheel with 16" LT tires is about 48" IIRC. A standard fifth wheel hitch like the Reese 20k that I use is adjustable but not down to 10". Your smaller fiver trailer will probably be lower leaving less space to work with.
I had to have a welder cut about 4" out of my Reese hitch platform to reduce the unloaded height of the top of the hitch mounting surface in order to mate with the kingpin plate of my HitchHiker fiver.
Reese makes a 30k fiver hitch that is shorter in the vertical dimension that is intended for flatbeds and MDTs.
You'll have to take some measurements and devise your own solution.
I don't have any experience with installing a flatbed on an ordinary pickup frame but had to work this out on my cab and chassis. A pickup frame is arched over the rear axle not flat like the C&C frames but you will face a similar height challenge.
On the 3500 C&C I own the top of the frame rail of a new and unloaded truck is about 30. 5" above the pavement. A flatbed like my CM bed normally has four inch frame rails parallel to the truck's frame rails and resting on top of them. Then the flatbed uses a series of three inch side to side rails attached on top of the long front to rear rails to support the bed deck. The flatbed deck is usually 1/8" or 3/16" sheet steel. The total height of the flatbed deck is about 7 1/8" above the truck frame rail or almost 38" measured from the pavement.
The kingpin plate of a typical large fifth wheel with 16" LT tires is about 48" IIRC. A standard fifth wheel hitch like the Reese 20k that I use is adjustable but not down to 10". Your smaller fiver trailer will probably be lower leaving less space to work with.
I had to have a welder cut about 4" out of my Reese hitch platform to reduce the unloaded height of the top of the hitch mounting surface in order to mate with the kingpin plate of my HitchHiker fiver.
Reese makes a 30k fiver hitch that is shorter in the vertical dimension that is intended for flatbeds and MDTs.
You'll have to take some measurements and devise your own solution.
All my trucks have the B&W goose neck hitch on the frame and it was no problem to build a flat bed that is only about 1" higher than the factory box... we wanted a wood bed, or actually we've used the composite decking material... we wanted something that wasn't as slick as steel... we than use the companion hitch for the 5er's... its adjustable height wise so we can level the 5er...
So far on the 05 the composite material has held up well, on the older flat beds we've used a 2x6 that is tongue and grove... we put a sheet of plastic under the wood to keep most of the road spray off the bottom and ever 18 months to 2 years we wash the deck and pour a liberal coating of boiled linseed oil over it... each one seems to be a little different as we change to make it work better for us. .
Since these are all work trucks. . they look dirty most of the time but clean up with a good wash...
So far on the 05 the composite material has held up well, on the older flat beds we've used a 2x6 that is tongue and grove... we put a sheet of plastic under the wood to keep most of the road spray off the bottom and ever 18 months to 2 years we wash the deck and pour a liberal coating of boiled linseed oil over it... each one seems to be a little different as we change to make it work better for us. .
Since these are all work trucks. . they look dirty most of the time but clean up with a good wash...
Harvey,
The height from the ground up to the upper side of the kingpin on our 5th wheel (as it sits, level on the driveway) is approx. 50", so this matches up well with your 48" number. You are also right that Reese (and maybe others) make a hitch for flatbeds that can be adjusted to a shorter height... our current one measures about 15-16" from floor to plate height as it sits on the garage floor.
I think the flatbed/5th wheel combo will work, but it will take some figuring out to make it right. The local flatbed dealer that I have spoken with told me that they have set up several with no particular problems, so I think I will be able to get everything figured out.
I really hope to find a 3500 C&C because it would have the flat frame rails instead of the arched frame of the pickup, but I will have to settle for what I can find... . it seems that regular cab trucks have become pretty scarce... . everyone seems to be buying 4 doors these days. Our local Dodge dealer does not have even 1 regular cab on his lot (except for 1500 short beds). The local GMC guy has 1 regular cab in a 2500 and that's it.
The height from the ground up to the upper side of the kingpin on our 5th wheel (as it sits, level on the driveway) is approx. 50", so this matches up well with your 48" number. You are also right that Reese (and maybe others) make a hitch for flatbeds that can be adjusted to a shorter height... our current one measures about 15-16" from floor to plate height as it sits on the garage floor.
I think the flatbed/5th wheel combo will work, but it will take some figuring out to make it right. The local flatbed dealer that I have spoken with told me that they have set up several with no particular problems, so I think I will be able to get everything figured out.
I really hope to find a 3500 C&C because it would have the flat frame rails instead of the arched frame of the pickup, but I will have to settle for what I can find... . it seems that regular cab trucks have become pretty scarce... . everyone seems to be buying 4 doors these days. Our local Dodge dealer does not have even 1 regular cab on his lot (except for 1500 short beds). The local GMC guy has 1 regular cab in a 2500 and that's it.
Guys,
Here is another related question... ... regarding dual rear wheels... ... is it possible to take a single rear wheel truck and add on the 2 extra wheels, does someone make a kit for this or is it out of the question?
The reason I ask is that I have located a nice regular cab 2500 4x4, low miles, but of course it is a single rear wheel truck.
Here is another related question... ... regarding dual rear wheels... ... is it possible to take a single rear wheel truck and add on the 2 extra wheels, does someone make a kit for this or is it out of the question?
The reason I ask is that I have located a nice regular cab 2500 4x4, low miles, but of course it is a single rear wheel truck.
Converting a srw truck to a dually requires a lot more than immediately meets the eye. I would recommend against it unless you are experienced and a real mechanic with a shop at your disposal.
A TDR member did it a year or so ago and the results he reported were unsatisfactory. He spoke of getting rid of the truck or converting it back but I never saw another post after that. The main problem he reported was it handled very badly.
Duallys use Budd dished wheels and you'll have to modify the front to use the same. There used to be advertisers in Trailer Life magazine offering the rear dually adapters. Don't know how well they work.
The TDR member who made the conversion bought a salvage yard complete rear axle housing assembly and changed his over.
Broaden your search for a suitable truck. l They are all over Texas and many are clean and well-maintained.
A TDR member did it a year or so ago and the results he reported were unsatisfactory. He spoke of getting rid of the truck or converting it back but I never saw another post after that. The main problem he reported was it handled very badly.
Duallys use Budd dished wheels and you'll have to modify the front to use the same. There used to be advertisers in Trailer Life magazine offering the rear dually adapters. Don't know how well they work.
The TDR member who made the conversion bought a salvage yard complete rear axle housing assembly and changed his over.
Broaden your search for a suitable truck. l They are all over Texas and many are clean and well-maintained.
Okay, I stand corrected. They must have changed the rating or at least their website info. When the new 4500/5500s came out a fellow TDR member found the rear axles on the company website and sent me the link. This would have been in late 2007 just before I ordered my 3500. The stated weight limit at that time was 26k.
I haven't looked at the Dodge Body Builder's Guide or a brochure since I bought mine. Does Dodge continues to rate them at 26k gross combined now?
NIsaacs
TDR MEMBER
Yes, per the Dodge 2009 towing guide, any transmission, gear ratio or GVWR for the 4500/5500 is still rated at 26,000 GCWR.
The 3500 cab/chassis with Asian (4. 10 only) is 12,500 GVW and 24,000 GCW.
The 3500 cab/chassis with G56/3. 42 is 12,500 GVW and only 19,000 GCW. So you are right, 3. 42 is reduced by 5,000 lbs
The 3500 cab/chassis with G56/3. 73 or 4. 10 is 12,500 GVW and 24,000 GCW.
The 4500 is offered in 15,000 or 16,500 GVW with Asian, gears are 4. 44 or 4. 88. With G56, gears are 4. 10 or 4. 44.
The 5500 with Asian is offered with 4. 88 only. The G56 is 4. 44 or 4. 88 and 19,500 GVW
Sorry, I am not smart enough to post tables or links.
Nick
The 3500 cab/chassis with Asian (4. 10 only) is 12,500 GVW and 24,000 GCW.
The 3500 cab/chassis with G56/3. 42 is 12,500 GVW and only 19,000 GCW. So you are right, 3. 42 is reduced by 5,000 lbs
The 3500 cab/chassis with G56/3. 73 or 4. 10 is 12,500 GVW and 24,000 GCW.
The 4500 is offered in 15,000 or 16,500 GVW with Asian, gears are 4. 44 or 4. 88. With G56, gears are 4. 10 or 4. 44.
The 5500 with Asian is offered with 4. 88 only. The G56 is 4. 44 or 4. 88 and 19,500 GVW
Sorry, I am not smart enough to post tables or links.
Nick
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