Dodge or Ford?

[Andy Perreault]

It's nice to see that this topic is not full of "brand bashing". I wonder how this topic would look on one of the "other" websites.



Anyway, one thing that convinced me on the Dodge/Cummins was a display I saw, showing the connecting rods of the GM 6. 2 (this was back in '96, way before the Duramax), Ford PSD, and CTD 5. 9 sitting next to each other. The 6. 2 rod looked like your typical big block gasser connecting rod. The PSD rod was definitely bigger and beefier than the GM. But the CTD rod was much, much bigger than the PSD rod. When I held that rod in my hand and could feel the difference in weight compared to the PSD, I thought, "Now this is a real diesel. " Plus, I had read that the CTD has 40% fewer moving parts than the PSD. Whether that really means a whole lot, I don't know. Also there's the issue of cavitation in the PSD's, which I had read about. Someone posted a detailed description of exactly what cavitation is on these forums a few months ago. Maybe a search might find it.

Besides all that, I liked the look of the Dodge. This was before the latest Ford body style came out. I have nothing against the Ford, I like the look of the new F- Super Duty's, especially a crew cab with a little bit of lift and bigger tires.

My first Dodge was a '96 automatic. I sold it after one year and bought a '97 5-speed. Even ordered the same color. I kept the camper shell and all the other goodies I had added to the '96 and put them on the '97.

Andy

 

[Scott Elliott]

The original post stated that he would rather have a truck made in the US over Mexico. Personally, I am very happy with my Mexican-born truck, and I know have read a lot of posts about the high quality of the Mexican trucks vs. those born in St. Louis. Anyone else have an opinion on this?

 

[Dr.Evil]

Everybody here keeps mentioning about con rod size & main bearing swept area. You Guys ARE CORRECT, SAME rule as displacement! Size Doesn't matter. forddiesel.com has only a single engine that has had any components fail in the short block, a piston broke. So He's doing a complete rebuild. NO ROD OR BEARING FAILURES, So What's the point? Ford/Navistar has te Cam position sensor and glow plug relay. Dodge has the lift pump and cracking shock towers, pulling brakes or whatever. Any of them are BAD NEWS if it happens to Your truck. I sat in my first new Dodge 3 weeks ago, Blue truck with gray int. I thought the fabric was gaudy, and the control lay-out haphazard. Some nice features in the large console and behind the seat storage. The CTD IS NOISY, I heard one idling 200 ft. across the road couple weeks ago over the noise of my STIHL chainsaw, While I was cutting! Noise that bad caught up to the construction & Ag companies. Dodge is going to have to address it too! The PSD got stuck with the E4OD, now the Heavy-duty version whatever they call it, but it still breaks, As does the Dodge A/T. , Then You have the New Venture Gear NV 4500 4-1/2 speed manual transmission, but then Ford gets the Dual Mass Flywheel with their troublefree ZF transissions. Lots of personal preferences Here, and subjectivity. I really can't believe the milage is that much different between the CTD and the PSD. Displacement doen't mean a darn thing in a diesel. Just look at those old 2 cyl. John Deere diesels, Displaced Hundreds of CID more than the competition, and got better fuel economy. I guess the deciding factor should be cost of operation, and what kind of deal You can get. Dodge is dealing right now, Ford isn't.

DENNY... ... ... ... ... .....

 

[Jeff Clark]

I agree Dr. Evil. I keep saying that it is all about needs. When my truck bit the dust and I needed a new one, I would NOT consider less than a crew cab. I'm only 5'7", but four of my good friends are in the 6'3" - 6'5" range and 245-265lbs. Try to stuff all that into a X-cab Dodge. We all fit nicely in the Crew Cab with room to spare. I don't work my truck, so I'm not concerned about longevity. My truck is used for a 200 mile round trip to school every day. I like it being quiet so I can enjoy a nice stereo system and don't have to hear all the road noise. Ideally, I would like a Cummins in a Super Duty Ford with a ton of sound deadner.

 

[COBRAJET]

Alan,



The only reason I mentioned the mileage issue is because three posts state the same erroneous information. The B50 life of a PSD is not 200k... it is 350K as is the Cummins. This is on the INTL website that I posted. Cummins does not list a B10 life anywhere in their literature so it cannot be compared to the PSD 200K mile B10 life.



Buckdog's post says " just because you see a lot of Ford ambulances doesn't mean they are are V8's. They are probably Cummin's. This is not true since it is not available in the common ambulance/tow truck configuration.



I am only trying to present factual information and will gladly correct anything that is proven otherwise. I have bought both trucks in the past and own one of each now. I believe I bought the best trucks for my needs. They are both very capable and will provide the majority of their owners more relaibilty than they are willing to hold on to... we all get that new truck urge... CJ

 

[Joe Turbo Diesel]

Thanks to all for responding!

I want to thank you all in giving me some sound advice on my truck and my future (Dodge) purchuse. Maybe in a year or two I will be able to ask questions about my new Dodge. This site is more helpfull than the Powerstroke registry which I no longer belong to.

I must admit that I have second thoughts on my purchuse. I like the sound and the looks of the Cummins engine. In the future I will ask more about this truck so please bare with me. Again thanks Joe

 

[Gonzo 1066]

6=good 8=less good IMHO

Dont get me wrong the International Harvester corp makes a fine engine for truck use. It is the DT 466 and the DT 530. If you go to a Navistar dealership and buy one of there medium duty trucks the base engine is the 444 also called the powerstroke V8. If you want to upgrade that truck for heavyer use the reccommended engine is the DT 466 or 530 inline 6 cylinder. You may ask why should I opt for the more expensive but equil horsepower 466? The answer is TORQUE The inline 6 inherently produces more torque because of the ability to more easly accomidate a longer stroke on the crank. There is also MUCH more bearing area in the 6 the crank throws are not shared with another rod. Simple efficancy dictates the 6 will utilize fuel better than a 8. The 444 is a fine engine but not on par with the little 359 ci Cummins.

 

[ProfWonka]

I've had my 01 2500 QC 4wd DEETH for exactly 3 weeks now (ordered it. ) It replaced a '73 k20 w/ a 454, which I'd rid in / driven since 1981. I should be back in the pickup market again in about 2030.



In 1994 both of my grandpa's brothers bought new Dodge Cummins (grandpa still drives his '69 with a 383. )



What I looked for was the truck I'd pay the least in maintenance on, and get better mileage than the 454 in the Chevy.



8 Years around ships I've seen loud CAT 3406B gen sets, v-16 and v-18 ALCO (locomotive engines), Giant v-12 Sulzer (10,500 hp), opposed pistol Fairbanks-Morse, Yanmar single cylinders, small Detroit Diesels, EMD and more- I'm pretty comfortable with diesels.



So, I read up on Cummins. After that I looked into this "2nd" generation of Dodge Ram (a little has changed since 94, but not a whole lot. )



Didn't consider BOMBability, style, the "latest" fad, or sales numbers. Just proven function.



I've been a "CHEVY IS THE ONLY TRUCK" guy since I was 10 years old, and I bought the Dodge. Do I like the new truck? I love it. I'm planning on driving it for the next 30 years. BUT, if GAS was a little cheaper, I'd still be driving the 29 year old Chevy (I still don't like the payments on the new truck. ) If I was rich, I'd be towing the old chevy (just to drive in the woods) behind the new Dodge.



Oh yeah (this is my own test of how much you like your truck)

If some idiot were to crash into me and TOTAL my truck, I WOULD go down and buy EXACTLY the same thing.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I bought my Dodge because it was a Dodge( wanted to get away from vans). I also liked the idea of the inline 6 from Cummins.



Drove a farmer's 6. 9 ford it had good pick up,decent mileage and pulled good.

One of his complaints when it hit 100,000 was the pastic parts on the injection system breaking.

That problem hasn't stopped him from buying several more for himself and a lot more for his business.

Matter of fact he suggested I buy a Dodge with the Cummins.

Also know a couple of guys that were way over 500,000 on the Internatrionals/fords with out any major engine work.



Ambulances/rescue units done here are mostly Freightliners and Interantionals with diesels. ( pretty sure Freightliners are Cummins 275 hp) The fire departments decided they were going to do the transporting.



Before that the ambulances were mostly ford chassis or ford vans with the 7. 5 gas because of the get up and go.



PSD in fords go up to 550. Hey Cobra you were right this time .



I buy another Dodge especially if there wasn't a D in front of the C.

Mexicans are hard workers. There are a lot of Mexicans that would like those factory jobs. The best pay down there. That means the ones that have those jobs are going to do thier best to keep them.

 

[Rcpilotlv]

Well I'm sure that everybody that replied to this posts can find publications and articles that say one engine is better then the other. Thats what makes propaganda great. But NOBODY CAN TELL ME THAT NAVISTAR DIESEL GETS GOOD MILEAGE. With everything being equal I will go further down the road then you gallon per gallon. Dont think so, well maybe we should go mileage for titles. When I win all trade your ford in for my NEW DODGE!

 

[Dualstacks]

Hi Joe, the CTD has been proven in many other fields than just an aoutomotive application. It is a very durrable and depenable engin. The CTD is used in many contruction equipment applications like case dozers, ingrasoll rand air compressers,ceader rapaids pavers,generators sets, and all most anything else you can think of. theses companys have choosen this engine for its exelent feul econemy,durabilty and simplicity. Im not saying theres anything wrong with those other engines but they sure havent proved themselves like the CTD.

 

[Evan A. Beck]

If Ford had the ISB in their F350, I'd buy one... Just the thought of a Cummins in a Prairie Tan F350 crew-cab 2WD makes me drool...



Too bad the Cummins is only available in the F650 and F750...

 

[tgbol]

I bought a Dodge because it is a Cummins engine and a Dodge truck.

To me F*rd is a four letter ford. It goes back to my drag racing days (Mopar). I still can't stand them. Even the new SD's we have at work are a pain in the rear end to work on or get parts for. We have all sorts of wierd problems with them, but I have to admit most are caused by the blockheads that drive them.

 

[Alan Reagan]

CJ, I wasn't flaming you. I am trying to do the same. Present factual info based on what the manufacturer's are providing. This is the first time I had ever heard of the B10/B50 so I've learned something new. Thanks. With the followup posts, I realized something else. Since my days of driving tractor trailers, I've always driven trucks with Cummins (except Ford gassers). There is a certain comfort zone I have working on a Cummins and that's the main reason I like them. I know how to service and perform some repairs and troubleshooting. Whoever said it depends on your needs, nailed it perfectly. I would own a PSD or a Ram. Right now I'm not very interested in a Duramax. I've had bad luck with every Chevy truck I've ever owned Diesel and Gas. From rusting rocker panels in the 70's, clutches, burned up wiring harness on the diesel from a glow plug wire shorting and the list goes on. I won't temp fate any time soon by going back down that road. Anyway, it's been fun guys. See you on the road, whatever you are driving.

 

[PZicha]

I've hated Dodges all my life,maybe cause all my friends loved them,then we bought a 91 Daytona. this was the biggest piece of crap to ever role on 4 wheels which just magnified my hate for Dodges... ... ... ... . Then I bought my Isb 3500 Dodge..... all was forgiven... All was forgotten... ... . Man was I ever walking down the wrong road ,I look for excuses to drive my truck... . my brother inlaw with his chevy 6. 5 looks for excuses to drive my truck..... also i've driven the 7. 3's I would have to give the Dodges the final nodd... YOU JUST CAN'T GO WRONG WITH A DODGE ISB... My uneducated opinion

 

[Randy J]

I've owned a Ford gas engine (300cid straight six) truck before. Loved it. But when I decided I wanted a diesel, I opted for the Dodge/Cummins package. Dodge diesels seem to hold their resale better than the Fords (at least around here). And even though I won't put down a powerstroke, I'd buy a Dodge with over 100,000 miles anyday, but not a Ford. I have almost 100,000 miles on my truck as a matter of fact, and it's still doing great!

 

[Shooter]

My $02

I traded a almost perfect 97 PSD, 5 speed, 4x, high boy for my Dodge equiped CUMMINS. The last week of production 97, mfg date 2-98 had the dual mass flywheel and clutch. At 10k miles the engine started running rough, lack of power,black smoke and poor fuel mileage (16 in town,down from 18). Center disk bearing failure ( 50k thrust ) causing drive line vibration picked up by knock sensor causing fueling and timing corrections to a unrelated problem. At 32k miles and 3 flywheel clutch assemblies later I was getting near the end of warranty, Ford had increased the thrust tollerance to 100k, the drivability over 50k was crap, and the future flywheel clutch assy's were going to be on my nickle: I traded. The truck was flawless cept fot the above noted problem. The 99 SD body came below the frame rails and Ford no longer offered the 3 or 6" factory lift. I use my truck off road and usually go through a couple of sets of nerfs a year. Chebby was a no brainer, Ford would require an after market lift that would severly krimp the chassis waranty, The Dodge equiped CUMMINS was the only alternitive. The stock Dodge equiped Cummins does not have the power of the stock PSD or the fuel mileage, but the bombing potential is cheaper and easier to achieve a ( in my case a tow vehicle ) that will pull any grade I have been able to encounter in 25k miles of towing in the rockies at or above the speed limit for $1500. 00 in power mods not including the shiney no go faster parts or the transmission upgrades that would have been done if the truck were used a a commuter and never worked because the stock transmission is marginal at best, I have the same opinion of the Ford auto.

 

[Rcpilotlv]

Shooter, dont really know how you can say that the powerstroke is more powerful then the cummins. Maybe in a drag race stock for stock, but loaded pulling a hill pretty close. As for mileage the cummins has always been better then the powerstroke. Look for the post 2001 shootout Dodge,ford and chevy. They even say they would like a cummins under any of there HOODS.

 

[PZicha]

No kidding , I think the power stroke is on the upper limit of its bombing potential ,many people would be singing a different tune if the motorhome version was put into these trucks (275hp 675ft/lb) that is considered stock for the 5. 9 ISB like 175hp is stock for chevy's 350 ,UNFORTUNAITLY Dodge chooses to de-tune these fine motors just a little to much

 

[jmeehan]

I looked real hard at the Super Duty before I bought my Ram.

I was checking prices and talked to the local dealer (an ex-employer) a few times. Then I read lots about fuel cackle on the Ford site. More specifically I read about how Ford was NOT fixing these new trucks that people had spent $30K or more on. That was the deciding factor for me. I let the salesman know that he lost a sale because Ford wouldn't or couldn't fix this problem.

The main problem I've read about on the Rams involves the front brakes. That I can deal with.

I know that most Fords don't have the fuel cackle problem, but it still bothered me that the manufacturer seemed to give up on fixing the problem.