dodge ruining a good thing??

[Bertram65]

Well, I don't know anything at all about a Binford XL4000, but I will tell you my rig is a daily driver. It costs me about $18. 60 per week in diesel fuel to drive to and from work, which is a 21 mile round trip. You can do the math and see that I'm being VERY generous by figuring with a 14. 5 mpg fuel average. I'm pretty happy with that. I don't tow much at all, and when I do, it is on the weekends. The bottom line is finally I'm able to afford the truck I've always wanted... ... ... ..... so whether I'm using it properly (read: according to the way some TDR users THINK the truck should be used) or not, I am very happy with my truck, it works great, it is EXACTLY what I've always wanted and dreamed about... ... ... ... . and I'm OK with that.

I do not think anyone is telling anyone else how to use the truck or how it should be used and what is right or wrong. The point is when someone posts that Dodge made a mistake by not offering gears in the truck that allow it to cruise at 80mph at 1500rpm, that is wrong. These are HD vehicles designed for working, if someone wants to use it for something else that is fine, but when they come on here and complain that it is a bad design because it does not do something that a HD work vehicle is not designed to do people will react to that.

 

[NIsaacs]

CJ, no one on this thread has doubted the pulling power of 4. 10's. We all love our Dodge CTD powered trucks and would no doubt buy one even if only 4. 10's were available with a 6spd. We would just make do with other mods to compensate.



What we are saying is, with the 6spd, 4. 10's are over kill. That we would rather have a higher rear axle and use 5th on a tough hill with a heavy load or use 1st to start that same load if need be. Then have 6th for a good go to town gear.



Yes, with 4. 10's, 1st or 2nd gear has tremendous power, so much so that with a turned up motor you can tear up pieces and parts with a heavy foot and a heavy load. Again, torque over kill to the point of the motor mount breaking the #53 block with a heavy foot, low gears and big loads.





"NICK"

 

[RustyJC]

I don't know how to make this any clearer. For towing our heavy 5th wheel, I wouldn't change a thing about the NV5600/4. 10 setup I have. Is it optimum for 80 MPH Interstate cruising running empty? No, but that's not why I bought the truck.



So, Dodge, give us a 7th gear and we'll all be happy campers!



Rusty

 

[DaveK98]

I've got the g56 and the 3. 73, and like you said I had no choice in rearend gears.



But like Rusty, I bought my truck to tow my 5th wheel and don't drive faster than 65-70 with it. I'm guessing about 80% of my miles with the truck will be with the trailer behind it. I do notice that when I drive 70 (when passing someone going really slow) the rpm's are up there and the exhaust starts rumbling.



Also I've noticed that 1st gear (yes the low one) seems to run out of steam around 2200 rpm. Maybe thats cause I'm not giving it enough gas? But when I feel that I shift to second. This only applys when I'm pulling my 5th wheel trailer, if I dont' have the trailer I don't use 1st.



When I first started looking at trucks it was the nv5600 and all the trucks on the lot had the 3. 73. Dealer said he would have to special order the 4. 10's... .

 

[67guzzler]

American Axle & Manufacturing Got Back To Me Today!

The point is when someone posts that Dodge made a mistake by not offering gears in the truck that allow it to cruise at 80mph at 1500rpm, that is wrong.

Bertram65 -- See this post I just made in the other parallel thread to this one.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1291309#post1291309



Seems that DiamlerChrysler doesn't agree with you either... .

 

[Bertram65]

Bertram65 -- See this post I just made in the other parallel thread to this one.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1291309#post1291309



Seems that DiamlerChrysler doesn't agree with you either... .

Great, when and if it happens you can cruise at 80mph on the highway at 1500rpm, as of now you have 3rd hand information with no product to back it up, when you have those gears in a truck post back about Dodge not agreeing with me.

 

[67guzzler]

Great, when and if it happens you can cruise at 80mph on the highway at 1500rpm, as of now you have 3rd hand information with no product to back it up, when you have those gears in a truck post back about Dodge not agreeing with me.

Don't give an inch, Bertram65. Don't give an inch.



It's pretty sad really. All people are saying is that an option effectively the same as those w/3. 73 rears & NV5600 should be available to G56 owners.



For some reason that offends the sensibilities of the 4. 10 owners. Nobody's saying anything outrageous like, "people who get 4. 10's are crazy. " There's a place for everything and more options can't be wrong.



The only thing I can think if is that maybe 4. 10 owners have some regrets and are taking it out on people who want options... Otherwise, they'd be supporting them and not criticizing them.

 

[Cummins Cowboy]

is there a way to change the overdrive gear itself, seems like the simplest fix for us guys who run 4x4's, or maybe the dual mass flywheel needs all that RPM to keep the cummins from ruining it.

 

[CJ Lagos]

JGann - My point is simply that the gears you want don't exist, there's nothing you can do to change that, period. That's it. Why do you feel that DC is so obligated to make the RPM in overdrive with a new transmission identical as the previous year model? That's just a rhidiculous argument. Your point is they should offer a taller gear option, not match the old one



I can't understand the commotion when 3. 73s and the G56 transmission will work 100% absolutely fine. You'll have increased interior noise, less fuel mileage, more towing capacity, better acceleration and 155 more RPM than the previous year model. It'd be great for you if they offered a package to turn the truck into a minivan but they don't.



Go buy yourself an overdrive, swap the transmission or use different axles. Those are your choices. Or, just live with an extra 150rpm.



Your letter from AA is just a rumor at this point. Believe it when you see it. Everybody knows that new cars and options are not the most predictable thing in the world

 

[DPKetchum]

D. C. is probably working on it and I can understand why. They must have been in a push to use a in house trans instead of the NV5600. $$$$. My neighbor and I discussed this at our usual mid morning breakfeast(he won't do pay sites only free ones)he has a 05 Dually with auto and 3. 73s. I mention the posts about towing 12,500 with 3. 73s and they PULL with NO problem. He just smiles and said BULL unless their running 80 towing. He pulls 8k and dislikes it in the rolling hill country. Says it eaither lugs and guts or screams as it downshifts to maintain 65/68 mph with horses on board. Empyt he did comment that 72 mph put him in the sweet spot rpm and fuel mileage wise but he dosen't tow that fast unless really flat and level and even then not often.

 

[67guzzler]

Guys -- I'm done. I can't reply to the same odd circular arguments. Nobody says that DC owes anyone anything. DC apparently feels that way.



By the way -- am I wrong or did someone question the authenticity of the response by the AAM engineer? That would be terrible as I'm a straight shooter and wouldn't waste anyone's time with BS.



I've gotten PM's from 3 people stating that they share the same desires but they don't want to get into the murky quagmire of this discussion. I now see why. So go ahead and stay intolerant of those who simply wish to present a voice. Things would never change if everyone simply said that the G56 w/the 3. 73 was fine even if they didn't feel that way. Businesses respond to consumer demand every day. That's capitalism at it's best. I don't understand how anyone here wouldn't support their fellow TDR brothers in trying to get DC to offer an option to those caught during the NV5600 / G56 changeover. I just don't get it. It's very American AND capitalistic for the masses to to voice a request to spur businesses on to fill a need. I'd pay money to make the upgrade even though I believe that DC should have planned the G56 swap a little better.



Again -- I just don't understand how you 4. 10 guys can't support those who don't things see things the same way you do. It's not like someone's going to take away your option. Why do they have to use their trucks exactly the way you do? What is the problem?

 

[Cummins Cowboy]

we are talking 6 speeds here autos are a totally different animal and have different gears in them, seems like most of the 4:10 people/fans here are actually also auto users. nv5600and 3:55's are all the combo anyone needs and I live in the mountains of utah, so I am no stranger to hills and grades. You guys that are getting saying we should deal with it and that we should not expect DC to match RPM speeds from model to model, we don't. but I think most here that have driven these trucks long enough know what RPM they operate best at, so that is what we want. maybe DC will add a different gear set later in the year I sure hope so

 

[klenger]

I don't want to sound rude, but what part of "AAM does not make any gears with ratios lower than 3. 73" don't you understand? Those of us who tow or haul heavy have no problem with you hot-rodders wanting taller gears. If you can find them, go for it.

 

[NIsaacs]

I don't want to sound rude, but what part of "AAM does not make any gears with ratios lower than 3. 73" don't you understand? Those of us who tow or haul heavy have no problem with you hot-rodders wanting taller gears. If you can find them, go for it.

Dang it Ken! We know they don't make a higher gear set and we know we can't find any. This thread was about wishing they were available, thats all. I have 3. 55's and the NV5600 so I am set, but some day I may want a newer truck, so I can "feel" for the guys that do.



If we were true hot-rodders, we would have 4. 10's, start out in 1st, rev to 3000 rpm bang the next gear an so on. Cruising at 75 or 80 at low rpm is what we want and what the Cummins likes. The 5. 9 does not need 3000 rpm to get the job done, more like 1800-2300.





"NICK"

 

[DPKetchum]

Its the 75 or 80 thing that it wasn't designed or met for is the way I look at it. Wrong kinda beast for that kind of cruising.

 

[Cummins Cowboy]

DP are you saying the truck wasn't designed to do the speed limit?? I don't know where you live but the speed limits are 75 when you get out of town where I live, I also feel totally and completly comfortable pulling a trailer up to about 7k at 75-80 on the open roads, I am sure the terrain is probably much different in the west than what you are used to.

 

[CJ Lagos]

My truck does awesome at 75-90. In fact, the truck is most responsive at these higher speeds. The power it has to accelerate so quickly on the highway is just awesome. I don't need to downshift to 5th and lose momentum, i just keep getting it in 6th. The biggest key to big grades with big loads is momentum. Having to downshift CAN cause a vicious cycle. Too low to run the faster speeds in 5th but not enough power to accelerate up the hills in 6th. Losing all that boost really sucks The higher rpms also make my exhaust brake work a lot better(and sound cooler too ). I use the exhaust brake 100% of the time, unloaded or not. It really changes the drivability of the truck and saves the service brakes.



JGann, we understand your point. You don't understand ours:

The most funny part about this is that this engine is a LOW RPM TORQUE MONSTER. The 4. 10 is ok for extreme towing but it's is NOT THE ANSWER for the majority of buyers -- even the ones that tow. The engine makes over 500 ft/lbs of torque right off idle!!! Why have such a low ratio? It's more necessary on engines w/o torque.

Try pulling a hill with 10k lbs in tow below 2000rpm and see how well the low rpm torque monster does, it may look like it has tons of towing power below 2000rpm on paper but pulling a hill below 2000rpm with a load tells a different story.

Even though the CTD has a flat torque curve from 1400 - 3000 RPM (love it ) the power at 3000 RPM is twice as much as at 1500 RPM. That's why the vehicle goes faster at higher RPMs.

Actually the Cummins will pull @ 2,000 rpm, as hard as any rpm, and likes it. The only reason Dodge (not Cummins) sets the red line at 3200 rpm is to enhance the drivability to a more gas like truck, mostly for the autos.

This is NOT my first hand experience. Higher RPMs make more power and lower EGTs under full load.

Actually my stock truck sees more EGT at higher RPM's cause dodge defuels the engine, you can't get all the fuel at 2k rpm. higher RPM does pull the load better but I can always downshift to 5th with my current combo

All people are saying is that an option effectively the same as those w/3. 73 rears & NV5600 should be available to G56 owners.

JGann - My point is simply that the gears you want don't exist, there's nothing you can do to change that, period. That's it. Why do you feel that DC is so obligated to make the RPM in overdrive with a new transmission identical as the previous year model? That's just a rhidiculous argument. Your point is they should offer a taller gear option, not match the old one

Guys -- I'm done. I can't reply to the same odd circular arguments. Nobody says that DC owes anyone anything. DC apparently feels that way.

I think you are the one with circular arguments.

 

[67guzzler]

Having to downshift CAN cause a vicious cycle.

Wrong again. You wouldn't be in no-man's land if they had a taller ratio. You should be in 5th and not OD while towing. Cooler transmission temps w/1:1 ratio.



This thread is going nowhere. It's amazing.

 

[DPKetchum]

What I'm saying is these trucks were NOT DESIGNED to run those speeds. I don't care HOW FLAT the roads are and YES I've pulled out west. I DON"T/WON"T tow at 75/80/90 mph. Wow and here goes. People that DO TOW at this speeds are not very thoughtful of others who enjoy LIVING. I've seen wrecks with vehicles towing at those speeds. Its not pretty. The TRAILERS aren't designed to be PULLED at those speeds. I have creeped up to 70/72 before and I slow it back down. Its not safe and the designers of these trucks really don't take THOSE speeds in consideration. They also don't on any of the SUV's. I've heard D. C. engineers talk about this when complaints come in on Gran Cherokees making ODD noises and vibrations at 85/90. they say SO! We don't care. Its a SUV. Drive slower. The design of these trucks is to haul and pull. NOT cruise at 80/90 mph. I've blasted mine to 90 playing. Briefy. It rarely see's above 70 empty/towing period. Now I'll really throw myself under the bus. Wife and I have been towing horses through Nebraska and had trucks towing 5vers and big horse trailers pass us like we were sitting still,gray plume just a boiling out of a Ford/Dodge or D/max/. We have called 911 and REPORTED them tag number and all. All there going to do is kill someone one day as well as themselves of course.

 

[6 2 Carl]

Haven't had time to read this post, but on the first couple of pages there was talk of AAM not offering a 3. 54 gear. If you go to AMM website they list a 3. 54 http://www.aam.com/technology/tech_prod_dl_rearaxle.html



Carl