Dodge using Allison?

[KWhitlow]

So you can use 5th while towing. Dodge just tells you to not use overdrive when towing... and believe me, they mean it!

I also think it's a shame to have such a great truck with such a worthless transmission, I really hope Dodge finally gets it right.

Keith

 

[DPKetchum]

MANY years ago Ford bought like 15% stock in Cummins. Cummins bought it BACK many years ago also. Like 15 years back. Never any amount like 51%. Just a small taste was all. As far as I know Cummins is totaly owned by Cummins. Its business with D. C. has been very fruitfull for both partys.

 

[BHolm]

So you can use 5th while towing. Dodge just tells you to not use overdrive when towing... and believe me, they mean it!

I also think it's a shame to have such a great truck with such a worthless transmission, I really hope Dodge finally gets it right.

Keith

Thats funny, with my 2001 Dura-pooch / Allislip truck it wouldn't stay in fifth while towing. I hauled my Unimog (7000 lbs + 7000 lb flatbed) from Atlanta to central Minnesota in fourth gear because it wouldn't stay in fifth. I got 5 mpg out of that glorious combo. Allison sent an engineer to me, hooked a laptop to the truck and took data with the same load on. They did come up with a reflash based on my problem, eventually. My 2003 D/A Chevy burnt its transmission fluid black as coal three times between its 25k mile service and when I traded it for the '05 Dodge when it had 34k miles. Great product, NOT! The guy from Allison admitted that GM had pretty much screwed the 1000 series up when they put it in the pick-ups. He was at my site trying to save face for Allison.



I'm not complaining about the Allison because I don't have one. I had two, niether time did it impress me in the least. I now have two work trucks with 48re's and my personal truck. Allison may make a lot of great transmissions but the one GM uses, is not one of their best efforts. My 48re's hold OD with big loads. FYI, you do not have to tow out of OD, that is left over from 10 years ago. The 48re will tow 20k plus all day in OD without a problem, the Allison will not, that is firsthand experience talking

 

[KWhitlow]

I now have two work trucks with 48re's and my personal truck. Allison may make a lot of great transmissions but the one GM uses, is not one of their best efforts. My 48re's hold OD with big loads. FYI, you do not have to tow out of OD, that is left over from 10 years ago. The 48re will tow 20k plus all day in OD without a problem, the Allison will not, that is firsthand experience talking

Here is another quote from another thread

"Further proof that all dealers are not created equally I had a 48re fail at 67k. Under warranty they replaced the trans with a new one from DC. They also replaced the radiator, external transmission cooler and I think the lines as well. It is a work truck and tows big all the time. Nobody ever even hinted about what I was doing with the truck as a cause. They did find a code fingering the electrically controlled fan clutch as failing. Never got a check engine, trans temp, or any other indication something was amiss. Mine was in and out of the shop in just 2-3 days. Might be time to go make a stink with the service manager. Unfortunately some places jack you around until you become a PO'ed customer. "



Which is it?

Hold big loads... or fail at 67K?

 

[jlasich]

Worked for a guy in '97 and I ran a hay squeeze (Oregon Roadrunner; here's what they look like but this link is to a different manufacturer: www.roadrunnermfg.com) that had an 8. 3l Cummins and a 6-speed Allison. It was an awesome matchup; that thing was just plain fun to drive and was definitely the best auto transmission I've ever driven, although New Holland's stackwagon (1095 and newer) had an auto that made the job 10 times better (not sure if they were Allision's though).



It seems to me that the 48RE is holding up very nicely, it's too bad that many people are just looking at the number of gears and then seem to come to some absurd conclusion that it's not as good as the Allison and TorqueShift. Sure there are going to be some failures. You can't tell me than no Allison or TorqueShift has failed under 67k miles. Y-knot stated "Now DTT and ATS have built Alison's that must be pure awesome, I can only wish. " I take that as meaning the Allison must not be bulletproof, because if they were, there would be no need for aftermarket companies to enhance them for heavier-duty use.

 

[macdaddy]

DC makes a line of reliable Diesels more than capable of running in the Dodge Ram. All this BS about Ford owning Cummins stuff and always proving that to be incorrect is going to haunt all of us someday.



The introduction of the G56 IMO could be a sign of things to come. It scares the **** out of me since I've been proving all the Ferd guys wrong for quite some time. I hate to say it gentlemen but I say the Ferds will eventually see the CTD someday man I hope I'm wrong!!!!!!!!



Mac

 

[BRayls]

dc and cummins , contract till 07 was extended for 10 more years. dc has made it well known they intend on keeping the cummins. ford having them, not, under the contract they would have to use the 48re. I think most of these guys give ford more credit than they deserve, as they really only had 3% or so ,selling long ago,very long. one thing to think about is the contract, its for the our horse, not any other engine. like the tdr reported a v engine could very well replace the ford 6 they bailed on navistar over.

 

[BHolm]

KWhitlow,



Yep, I had a 48re fail at 67k miles, so what? You conveniently forgot to include the story about the Allison failing at 34k in my Chevy Better yet the Chev had never towed over 8000 lbs, and that was one time. You also took an excerpt that did not say what caused the trans to fail, it wasn't hard use it was the electronically controlled engine fan that didn't come on when it should causing the trans to overheat. The trans in my dually is now over 80k and has never had an issue. That truck has had a good sized trailer hooked up nearly its entire life.



If the Allison is so great, why not go buy one? Seeing as you have probably never owned a GM truck with that trans, and I have owned two of them, I'm not sure why you want to bust my balls over it

 

[KWhitlow]

I'm sorry,I am not trying to bust your balls. The post I quoted did not mention the reasons for your transmission failure. It is obvious you have had good luck with your transmission and bad luck with the Allison.

What amazes me is that every Dodge truck list or forum (2nd and 3rd generation)is literally choked with complaints about these transmissions, there is practically a new post every day to the TDR concerning transmission complaints, it is painfully obvious that these transmissions were not designed with the intentions of being placed behind an engine as powerful as the Cummins. I have had many problems with my Ram's transmission, and I have never used the truck to its capacity.

For what it's worth, I DO have an Allison. I have a 2002 Chevrolet and I have never had any transmission issues, it works as advertised. According to what gets posted to the Duramax lists, the Allison is holding up well with very few complaints. The mechanics at the Chevrolet dealership I deal with say its a great transmission, the mechanics I deal with at the Dodge dealership literally laugh at the Dodge transmission.

 

[10.5 Dave]

My previous rig was a 03 Dmax/Ally crewcab 4x4 srw. It made 844 lb ft to the ground on a Mustang dyno with $1200. 00 worth of mods. I pulled 12,000-18,000 lb trailers quite often with it. My bone stock transmission never gave me any grief. It held 5th gear on the freeway at 70mph with 18,000 lbs hooked to the truck.

I didn't change the transmission fluid in the 35,000 miles I had and it was just as red as when it was new. I would replace the spin on filter every 7,000 miles though.

I would still have the truck if I wasn't so grossly overloaded while towing with the srw. It was a hotrod compared to the Cummins I have now and the 99 Ford PSD I had previous to the Chebby.

I don't doubt the guy posting had issues with his transmission but I know probably 50 guys with Ally trannies and NONE of of us have had any problems. On the other hand the 10 or so guys I know with a Cummins/V-10 with auto trannies haven't made it to 100,000 miles with one. A contractor friend of mine is on his 3rd transmission in his 97 V-10 with 170,000 miles. And he doesn't do ANY heavy towing.

I'm talking about people I know not internet babbling. I understand brand loyalty but some people seem to be out of touch with reality.

After reading some of the boards you'd think the other two(you pick em)manufactures trucks wouldn't make it off the dealers lot without taking a dump. I've put 200,000 miles on the big three's diesel rigs in the last 5 years and had 0 problems with any of them.

I'm willing to bet that any of the big three's diesel trucks will provide 300,000 miles of trouble free service if properly maintained.

 

[hasselbach]

The fact that GM owns Allison does not preclude them from selling to DC. It makes it unlikely but not impossible. The current Allison 1000 series as used in the GM trucks will simply not hold the torque of the Cummins. It barely does the job on the GM trucks. I think that everyone wants to throw around the Allison name. I've owned two Chevys with Allisons, believe me, it isn't something I would brag about.

Not true, the Allison is an awesome transmission and blows away the rinky dink 48RE... I have one, and its 10 times the transmission that Dodge is currently using, and worked fine even with a 100 hp box installed.

 

[nwjetboat]

My bone stock transmission never gave me any grief. It held 5th gear on the freeway at 70mph with 18,000 lbs hooked to the truck.

I was a die hard BOWTIE guy. . So when time to buy a truck I test drove the 03dmax and CTD same day, same load, (6500lb boat) over our strectch of "truck testing hill". The dmax WOULD NOT hold OD on anything but the flat stretch. Link to my post

I have seveal friends with DMAX's, and until they installed the Juice they admitted the same issue.

I just made a camping trip with truck camper, pulling the boat, probably in the 17000gross range. . Truck went form Boise to Twin Falls, and never dropped out of OD. .

I don't doubt the guy posting had issues with his transmission but I know probably 50 guys with Ally trannies and NONE of of us have had any problems.

What about all the torque converters replaced in the 01 models. I personally know of two that were repalced before 10,000 miles, one in a 8. 1 gasser and the other in a DMax. If I remember correctly it was someting to do with bolts not torqued correctly. Now that isn't "transmission failure" but assembly/engineering failure, but to say there were NO issues is misleading. What needs to be said it that when we buy a truck we buy the package, and as packaged, the CTD won me over, and continues to do so.

 

[BHolm]

There is also a HUGE reliability gap between the 47re and the 48re. I NEVER would have bought a Dodge if they hadn't done something about the auto trans. In 2003 they DID. You guys making comments based on the old trans are not being fair, the new one, while similar, has been beefed substantially, and is far from the joke the older versions were. It's OK though, most people rip the Dodge transmission with no regard for the fact that the 48re has now become the least troublesome fo the three according to transmission shops.



hasselbach, We will have to COMPLETELY disagree on the transmission issue. I had a bunch of issues with both Allisons I had, on stock trucks. My only complaint about the 48re is the loose convertor. I can live with it though on the '05 because in T/H mode it locks up the convertor from 30 mph on.



I also have absolutely no faith in the notion that any of the three will make 300k reliably. Having owned all three I know a Ford 7. 3 can, and I know the Cummins can. I seriously doubt the D-max or 6. 0 Navi are as durable as the Cummins. To each his own I guess.

 

[10.5 Dave]

My Dmax was juiced before I ever towed anything,so I don't know about stock performance,never really though about it.

Yes,the 01's Allys did have some assembly problems. I was referring to my 03 truck and people I know personally,not the internet.

There are Dmax trucks with over 500,000 miles on them that are still on the road. Some guy named Broker runs the wheels off of them pulling huge trailers. Turns out the alum heads and iron block work just fine together.

Never questioned the strength or durability of a Cummins. Even the Ford and Chebby guys don't do that.

 

[hasselbach]

Yeah, the converter sucks on the 48RE (which is why I sold my 04. 5 after 5 months). No wonder the 48re transmission lives longer, most of the torque is lost through the horrible slushy TC. I bet if you install a tighter converter and do nothing else, parts in the 48re will start breaking.



In any event, I love my Allison, even more so after a better coverter and programing kit. And I'm starting to enjoy the NV5600 in the 05 dodge too, now that its starting to loosen up. (but it need a gear vendors overdrive IMO)



To each his own.

 

[mberry]

Just to add fuel to this fire and keep it off topic one more post, I was at my local Cummins facility last week. He told me the Cummins/DCX contract ends around 2007. If that's the case and Ford does start using Cummins engines in their F series pickups, you can kiss Dodge goodbye as a major player. Look at our group here and realize how many of us bought Dodge for the engine/drivetrain combo. I probably wouldn't own a Dodge next time I went to purchase a pickup if this happens no matter how good the MB engine is.

 

[EBung]

Ford doesnt own CUMMINS!And when I was at ATS in Denver 3 weeks ago,yes I was there with my Dodge getting it UPGRADED,in the shop were 2 DMaxs,2 Phords and my Dodge so what they all suck!But what was in the employees parking lot? 5 Dodges and 1 Phord!All I have to say about the Allison is they rely on electronics to much and that I think is the same malfunction on the Torque-Shift also. So I think after all is said and done Dodge will win out because when they come out with something new they will come out with it in a huge way!A 6-speed auto?How freaky would that be?Awesome

 

[Cattletrkr]

Before I bought my current truck I test drove a Dmax/Allison for all of about 2 miles. I absolutely loved it, especially compared to the Dodge 4spd I drove. If I were buying a new truck again and I wanted an auto, no way would I even think about the Dodge. I've driven dad's '03 w/48 and I hate it. There's a reason some of us stubborn hand shakers call them "slush boxes". Ick. Now, if Dodge were to ever come out with a 6spd auto, that might change my thinking in a hurry, but I just love being in total control of what gear I'm in.



Anyway, back to the Allison. Driveability is head and shoulders above the 48. At least that what my "extensive" test drive showed me. Phurds Torqueshift is aaaright, but still squishy. A guy I drive for occassionally is hard core Furd and forces me to drive his now an then. It gets the job done, but I never even test drove one if that tells ya anything.



If I were getting a truck for personal use rather than for work, I wouldn't even look at anything other than Chev/GMC.

 

[DPKetchum]

Well I have two friends that in 03 wanted NEW trucks. Both diehard bowtie guys. One a retired airline captain. They shoped Ford and G. M. trucks. Both set on D/Maxes. I convinved them to try a Dodge(test drive&price). My airline captain friend and I went at 9 a. m. to the dealer near my house. He drove a bright red 2500 48re 3. 73 with Laramie package. Had me drive it. Then him again. I asked how is it compared to the D/Max. He had the hood up going WOW you can service and fool with THIS. Then he said THIS THINGS A HOSS. He bought it a hour later. Said to him it drove hands down better then the D/Max. Said its faster,handled better,stopped better,had froom under the hood to service it and was several THOUSANDS less money. That truck now has 90k plus towing about 90% of the time. Same brakes,never aligned,just replaced tires etc,. My other friend took THREE weeks and he bought a 03 6 speed 4x4 3. 73 gear. He traded it a few months ago on another new one. He put 144k on his. Same brakes,never aligned,replaced tires at 90k etc. He didn't need another truck,he wanted another new truck. They BOTH say theres only ONE real diesel truck in the market place. They BOTH have friends with D/Maxes and Ford 6. 0s who always ask Hows that thing doing?

 

[tschwab]

Now, if Dodge were to ever come out with a 6spd auto, that might change my thinking in a hurry.

The CTD DOES NOT need 5 or 6 speeds like the dmax or psd. With your logic, the CTD six cylinder is a lousy motor compared to the 8 cylinder dmax or psd because it has two less cylinders.