Dodge using Allison?

[Yo Hoot]

GM does not own Allison. The Allison in the GM rigs is designed by GM but built by Allison. Allison has their own transmission but also builds many different ones based on the individual factories request. It probably was a motorhome with the Cummins as that is just one of the incarnations for the Allison.

Allison Transmission is and always was a division of General Motors.

 

[macdaddy]

If that's the case and Ford does start using Cummins engines in their F series pickups, you can kiss Dodge goodbye as a major player.



Just put this 325/610,NV 5600 combo in a F-350 lariat Crew Cab DRW and I'd have a Ferd!!!!!!!



Mac

 

[KWhitlow]

So I think after all is said and done Dodge will win out because when they come out with something new they will come out with it in a huge way!A 6-speed auto?How freaky would that be?Awesome

It will also be old news



http://www.lubricationspecialistllc.com/allison06.pdf



Keith

 

[hasselbach]

The CTD DOES NOT need 5 or 6 speeds like the dmax or psd. With your logic, the CTD six cylinder is a lousy motor compared to the 8 cylinder dmax or psd because it has two less cylinders.

Dude, That's like 1920's logic... Why not have a few extra gears? My 04. 5 was buzzing way too high on the interstates, an overdrive would have been very nice. My 6 speed is even worse. At 70 mph, you could tell it needed one more gear.



You guys kill me when you ruffle your feathers about how flat the torque curve is for the oh mighty Cummins, thus not needing anymore than 4 speeds. . With that logic, then I guess a 3 speed would be far better, right (no, maybe a 2 speed is the best )



Face it, Dodge went the el cheapo route and used a dinosaur transmission, and to make it live, coupled it to a mushy TC. .

 

[zstroken]

Another overdrive?? That is funny the 48RE already has a 0. 69 to 1 OD compared to the 0. 70 to 1 of the allison. The allison does have a super nice low gear though. The allison being a very stout unit I still think that apples for apples I would take a 48RE. It has the lowest warranty cost of any of the Heavy Duty Automatic and it is $1500 cheaper to get one. If I remember right I think a good convertor runs about $1100, VB for $500. WOW look at that I can put in a great convertor and VB and still be right around the cost of an allison. Like I said the allison is a very stout unit for a stock unit, but it is a $2500 option too!!

 

[tschwab]

Dude, That's like 1920's logic... Why not have a few extra gears? My 04. 5 was buzzing way too high on the interstates, an overdrive would have been very nice. My 6 speed is even worse. At 70 mph, you could tell it needed one more gear.



You guys kill me when you ruffle your feathers about how flat the torque curve is for the oh mighty Cummins, thus not needing anymore than 4 speeds. . With that logic, then I guess a 3 speed would be far better, right (no, maybe a 2 speed is the best )



Face it, Dodge went the el cheapo route and used a dinosaur transmission, and to make it live, coupled it to a mushy TC. .

hasselbach, sorry to hear you dislike the 48re so much, no problems here with the 48re, still think it is the best of the big 3 with the lowest repair rate and best reliability. Your logic is the one that is outdated, you seem to think that the 48re is not as good as the ally t1000 because it only has 4 spds.



If the Cummins was a v8 design, I would agree, there would be a need for another gear or two, the current ctd works great with the 48re, atleast for my purposes (towing the 5vr). Maybe it does not work so great for others as a hotrod?... . but that is not what this truck was intended for.

 

[QWaller]

I believe also that because the CTD has a rather short RPM "sweet spot". I think it would be better To have several closely spaced shifts that kept the engine in the 1600-1800 area under normal driving conditions. It's not that the CTD can't do a 3 or 4 speed, but I bet it would be more comfortable in a 6 speed.

 

[RMalone]

Well since this is now a furd, chebby, dodge debate let me say that my decision on a CTD was based on 1. Cummins, 2. Cummins and 3. price(like 10 grand less than furd or chebby). I didn't buy my truck for the dodge part of the equation in fact the CTD was the last diesel I looked at (I had terrible experiences with a couple cars I had owned from dodge). But a little research showed the cummins to be hands down the most PROVEN reliable diesel on the market. I think all three make a pretty good product, and all three have issues on occasion. My only problem with the allison is how expensive that damn thing makes the rest of the truck! For the price of the allison you can get a 48re made bulletproof. Just my worthless two pennies.

 

[BHolm]

I believe also that because the CTD has a rather short RPM "sweet spot". I think it would be better To have several closely spaced shifts that kept the engine in the 1600-1800 area under normal driving conditions. It's not that the CTD can't do a 3 or 4 speed, but I bet it would be more comfortable in a 6 speed.

Short sweet spot? Compared to what exactly? Correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure the Cummins holds 610 lb/ft of torque from 1600-3000 rpm. Looks like a pretty FAT sweet spot to me. The only way to get a larger sweet spot is to increase the operating range period. My old Buick makes 500 lb/ft + from 3000-5000 rpm, not much better than the Cummins actually.



I like the four speed auto, seems like just the right amount. I always thought the Allison was too busy trying to find a gear, besides not liking OD at all. I have a six speed auto in My Porsche truck thing and it is too busy as well. The manual six speed makes sense as you get complete control. When left up to some computer that has no clue what you want, it is bound to be shifting more than it needs to.



Now if DC goes to a 5 or 6 speed with a much tighter convertor, adds decent grade braking ala Allison with smart lock-up, and keeps the 48re's tendancy to jump to the next higher gear when anything short of floored, they would REALLY have something. Yes the 48re is a dinosaur, but it works for me. It works better for me than the Allison ever did. Sure it could be better, they all could IMO.

 

[BRayls]

just as stated the allison has the highest warr. costs, why? its so great and all. now granted they all are not great for modded trucks period. previous contract was till 07, already extended ,before it expired hmmm. my 97 had 145,000 miles running 260hp and 670 lbs rwtrq. vb mod only. not bad when it was stock at 135 and 354. the v-b mods were done by dc engineering @ ktp, turning out to be your 48re vb basically. shimming the accumulator that is above the tail of the vb (removal of the spring and replaced with alum stock). no allison now or in the near future, count on that.

 

[KWhitlow]

Allison has the highest warranty cost? You can get a Dodge with a Cummins for 10 grand less than a Ford or Chevy? I sure wish I lived where you live! On the east coast it will cost you (at sticker) $47000 for a loaded Ford, Chevy, or a Dodge! If you go to the web sites and "build your own" the prices are almost exactly the same! (or at least they were about 4 months ago)As far as the Allison and the Torqshift having higher warranty cost... (if it is true) you think it might have something to do with the fact that they are new? Not to mention the fact that they are considerably more advanced. If the Allison 1000 is still being used in a new truck when it is thirty years old, it will probally have the lowest warranty cost. When Dodge comes out with their copy of the Allison and Torqshift will it be the best thing on the block or will you still be stuck on the 48RE? Will you be complaining about the extra gears?

Technology keeps moving forward, sometimes even for the better! Dodge has been able to stall it for years. I think the time has come where Dodge had better do something with the 48 RE. I know that they are losing sales in the used vehicle segment, it's hard as hell to sell a Dodge diesel with an automatic that is used (unless you give it away - once again this is on the east coast)

I am glad you like the 48 RE, I really hope that they will last longer than 100000 miles, I just think that, for the money, we deserve better.

Keith

 

[BHolm]

I think we deserve a whole lot better on a number of levels from all three manufacturers. I agree that pricing is similar, my '05 Dodge stickered for 47k, my '03 Chev stickered at $48k and anything short of the King Ranch package on a Ford puts you at 47-48k, the KR easily gets to 52k with a diesel/auto. That is an absurd amount of money for a pick-up truck period. Granted we are our own undoing wanting all of the options. My '03 ST trim dually with air,tilt,cruise was purchased for under $30k



I don't know what repair costs are like but it wouldn't surprise me to find out the Alli and Torq were more expensive precisely because they are newer and more complex. That brings a valid point though. I have seen failures reported on all three. Are the extra features nice enough that you would be willing to spend the extra dough on an out of warranty repair? On my '03 Allison the warranty expired at 36k miles, on my Dodges they are covered to 70k miles. The extra gear and grade braking were not worth it to me. Then bolt it to CTD and the choice was easy. When considered as a package... . well I voted with my dollars. I do like my 48re's and I have one at 80k miles, all heavy work. So far so good.

 

[QWaller]

The sweet spot I am referring to is where the CTD inherently like to run in regards to seat of the pants feel, fuel economy, and noise levels. I am aware that there is fine power aver a broad range in these engines now.

 

[DPKetchum]

Between myself and a few friends the deals we got on Dodge trucks was several thousand better then the G. M. or Fords.

 

[FATCAT]

dc and cummins , contract till 07 was extended for 10 more years. dc has made it well known they intend on keeping the cummins. ford having them, not, under the contract they would have to use the 48re. I think most of these guys give ford more credit than they deserve, as they really only had 3% or so ,selling long ago,very long. one thing to think about is the contract, its for the our horse, not any other engine. like the tdr reported a v engine could very well replace the ford 6 they bailed on navistar over.

Or Ford could go with the ISC and One-Up Dodge ... now wouldn't that be a hoot.

 

[zstroken]

Same transmission as the 1500??? Not sure where you get this info at, there are quite a few differences in the 1500 and the 2500 transmissions.

 

[RMalone]

remember sticker costs mean very little in todays world of discounts. Dodge in my area (se mich) gives the general public the leftover employee discounts during the month of march. Add to that other factory discounts and you have one hell of a savings. My truck isnt loaded, se with cloth but most other options.

Sticker price 41,000

my final price 32,600 with under 4% interest!

chebby and furd couldnt touch it!!!!

 

[BRayls]

Same transmission as the 1500??? Not sure where you get this info at, there are quite a few differences in the 1500 and the 2500 transmissions.

. hasslebach, I don't know why you insist on dropping your rpm, mine gets best mpg at 2000-2100 rpm.

 

[10.5 Dave]

I wouldn't be driving a Dodge right now if it didn't have a CTD and NV5600. The Dodge was also signifigantly cheaper than the Ford or Chevy.

If Ford still had the 7. 3 I wouldn't even have looked at the Dodge. There would be a crewcab 4x4 Larait F-350 dually sitting in my shop right now. The main reason I like the Ford is the HUGE crewcab.

 

[DLeno]

I wonder if Dodge will re-capture any of that market with the 06 mega cab