does the k&n filter work better

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Just was wondering if the k&n filter is really worth the money,has anyone felt a difference in power,is fuel economy better,and what is all this I hear about drilling holes in the air box,does this work,and if it does were do you drill the holes. .


00 3500 QC auto,all opts minus leather,4:10 gear,driftwood.


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David Foster

 

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After much thought about air filters I decided to go with the Amsoil Foam dual stage foam filter for about $30. The K&N is over $50. The foam makes a perfect seal without any hassle of greasing. The SAE J726C Test Method for filters shows that high quality paper and the 2 stage foam filter have the best dirt removal quality. The two stage foam, a low quality paper filter and the oil-wetted K&N have the same air flow. The high quality paper filters slow up the air flow considerably. The 2 stage foam filter will hold more dirt than any of the others and without restricting air flow. The foam filter is easy to clean but it is important to use Amsoil's special high tack oil. I use Amsoil's foam filter as a pre-filter on my tractor and nothing passes the foam filter. The only dirt I get in the paper filter box is from the poor seal that the box has. The K&N filter has a great air flow but I think it is short lived as the filter does not have as good dirt holding ability as the foam filter. The K&N seems to be a pain to clean because of the pleats. I guess they have a foam cover now however. I am not an Amsoil dealer but have used Amsoil for over 20 years. Remember when Mt. Saint Helens blew up? Amsoil air filters and oil filters really proved their worth for those that had them. One must be careful not to over oil the Amsoil filter.

Just my 2 cents.

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99 QC Diesel,5spd, white,Luverne SS step bars, Mopar long mud flaps, A. R. E. cap with walk thru door, SS rock side panels, JC Whitney front bumper 14" guards, BED RUG box liner, diamond plate bed rail and bulk head covers.

 

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I have posted, and included in a TDR article, the results of my dyno testing of air filters on a Ram that gave 390 hp on the Dynojet 248C. Turbo spool up, and the hp curves were superimposable with (a) somewhat dirty Mopar filter; (b) new Fleetguard filter; (c) no filter, air box lid propped open. OTOH, I have seen evidence that the suction of the turbo pulls oily dirt into the system if you run an oiled cloth type filter. Coating the intercooler reduces its heat exchanging capacity. Oily dirt does not help the engine either.

However, some folks have become convinced that the money spent is worthwhile. I wish they had dyno data to back up their claims. Seat of the pants is notoriously inaccurate, especially when you just spent $$$ and are not anxious to admit you wasted the money! Howsever, if there are situations where such "rocks-and-rabbits" filters help, I am willing to be convinced.

 

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I noticed a slight improvement with the K&N but if you drive in really dusty conditions you need to give it constant attention. This summer, while doing some hard pulling, I discovered the engine was pulling dirt through the filter! It had only been six months since I had serviced the filter. (Not 50-100K like K&N reccomends) I was sick, and was sure I had dusted the engine. Did all the appropriate tests and so far so good. The engine is fine, but I'm sure it was close! I did lose my turbo as a result, due to the oily dirt buildup on the compressor turbine, causing it to get out of balance and lose the bearings and seals.
As for holes in the airbox, many folks use a hole saw on the air box sides. My friend did this and really plugged up fast. I didn't and still had problems. I'm not going to say that K&N does not offer a good product, but if you drive in a lot of dirt you may want to reconsider. I never had any trace of dust in my intake while using OEM paper filters. I'd sure like to know if anyone else has had problems with K&N in dusty conditions.
Don.

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'93 W250, CC, 4x4, 5spd. , 4:10, Cummins w/ Mild mods, K&N, 16cm turbo, Custom straight exhaust, Lund visor w/lights, 5th wheel, Gooseneck, H. D. rear hitch-pintle and ball, Aluminum everything, Cobra 148GTL W/mods.

 

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We had a customer come in recently, who bought 2 K&N's for his Dodge. He said he drove his truck almost exclusively in the dirt, and that without a K&N, he changed paper filters every week. He only ran his K&N for a week, as well, but it was a whale of a lot cheaper than buying paper filters by the case. He also said that less dirt got through the K&N than through the paper filters, by judging the traces in the airbox.

I've also used K&N's for years, and have never had one leak any appreciable amount of dirt, even when used in horrendous environments. I do see how one could "leak" dirt when you have a very high demand engine pulling air through it. It literally smashes it through the cloth. A paper filter would likely rip, so what's the gain?

The fact is, it's difficult to clean that much air with something insufficiently large.

Also, a CLEAN K&N will flow MORE air than nothing at all, due to it's effect on straightening and smoothing airflow on carb'd engines. To each his own, I guess, but I'm sold on them.



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You should never use a preposition to end a sentence with.
This problem requires congressional action.
5 out of 4 people are mathematically challenged.

'65 Power Wagon. 318, 4 speed, Crew Cab. Nope, not diesel - can't afford it. Need fuel system questions answered? Ask me, I work on them.

 

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Just the fact that the K&N seal is inadequate should scare people away. I have one, makes the turbo whine louder, thats all. My stock 6BTA5. 9 does pull the oil onto the turbo blades. Really doubt that it filters out dirt better than the stock mopar or fleetguard (used both). Using G-tech, I proved to myself no performance gains AND not to listen to nonsense claims on a BBS. Keep your filter CLEAN & DRY by pulling air in from under the headlight (out in front of the truck), The stock setup is that way for a reason. JMO

RonL

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98 3500 QC 4X4

 

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Joe, so which filter is less likely to cause an oil coating on the intake of the engine between the K&N and the Amsoil type filter? I have used both but I have never really inspected the intake either. Thanks.

 

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I have never seen a properly oiled K&N weep or otherwise spread any oil. If you read thier info carefully, and follow it, there isn't very much oil at all on the whole thing. Certainly not enough to drip or otherwise get pulled out of the filter. Perhaps people are oiling them too heavy?

I know it's tempting to put more oil on, and i've been guilty of it myself, but I've never had a situation where it mattered if some oil did spread.

And yes, they do make more noise. My 440 had a 14 inch round 3. 5 inch high open aftermarket filter, and with a paper element the intake roar was much subdued in comparison to the K&N. There's more open space in a K&N than in a paper filter, so it sorta makes sense.

For you guys using it in your 94-up trucks... are you sealing it in with the silicone grease? If not, it may leak at the seal. In fact, paper ones will leak there too, if you get one with a slightly irregular edge.


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You should never use a preposition to end a sentence with.
This problem requires congressional action.
5 out of 4 people are mathematically challenged.

'65 Power Wagon. 318, 4 speed, Crew Cab. Nope, not diesel - can't afford it. Need fuel system questions answered? Ask me, I work on them.

 

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It looks like air filters fall into the same catagory as oil, religion and politics.
I guess you just find the one that suits you and use it. I changed to the K&N to see how it works. Have to agree that I here the turbo better and the dis-coloring on the turbine blades hasn't came back yet, and the inside of the hose is as dry as a bone. In a few months when I'm bored with this filter or I think it has some dust on it I'll throw it away and try another one. Then probably go back to a factory filter cause we all know they work #ad
#ad
Regards Pete

 

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DON D... Sorry to hear about the Turbo =( OUCH!

Interesting...

Running in the gasoline circles and STOCK class racing... you take the ponnies (HP) where you can get them... and the $30-$50 oil treated air filters (no BRANDS mentioned) make sense. You do have to be careful that they are not "OVER-OILED" post-cleaning OR OUT OF THE BOX. Otherwise the MAF's sensor wire (mass air flow sensor in most EFI Gas vehicles) gets covered in a FILM that causes it to make errant readings, usually to the LEAN side of things. =(

I never thought about "Over-Oil" Slime Fouling an impeller or worse, taking a turbine out of balance and eating a bearing! Wow! That would be AN EXPENSIVE couple HP wouldn't it?

I do appreciate you sharing your experience as THIS IS ONE POST THAT HAS ME QUESTIONING A LOT OF "GIVENS" NOW. Thanks for "opening" my eyes again. #ad


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MAD MAX

A Graduate Student Looking Forward to a Cummins Powered Graduation Gift to himself.

 

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I ran a K&N in my PS and now my 99 cummins and have had no problems at all. There is a little power improvement but not enough to brag about. It is a lot cheaper in the long run. I'm happy and would buy one again!

 

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There has been many opinions conveyed in regard to the use of the K&N air filter in our Rams, on this BB (and the old CDW BB) as well as the Happy Campers BB. The consensus is, if there is a good seal between the filter element and the air box there will not be a dirt intrusion problem. Conversely, I have data proving my worst oil analyses (as it applies to silica content) were when I was using an OE (Mopar. . paper element with a foam pre-filter) or Fleetguard (also paper) (or Cummins. . same thing) air filter elements. One month ago I switched to the "Scotty Air System" (K&N #RE-0880 filter element) adding the K&N foam pre-filter (#25-0880) over the the K&N filter element. I added a piece of 4" diameter, stainless steel tubing inside the turbo inlet hose, clamping the K&N filter element over the turbo inlet hose. This made for an extremely good seal. My next oil analysis will tell the tale. I am 100% positive the problem lies solely in the inegrity of the air box seal!

As for the stated, no performance increase. . my BS alert went up. With my injectors and 4" diameter exhaust, a slight seat of the pants increase was realized (and no Joe D. it wasn't wishful thinking!). As for mileage, when I previously used an XLerator (two stage foam air filter. . with the OE air box) I realized an honest 1. 0 mpg increase. We shall see how the new "Scotty Air" fares.

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'98. 5 2500 QC 4x4, (Black) SLT Sport, ISB, LWB, 3. 54 LSD, A/T, Glasstite Vision II canopy, Line-X bed liner, 285/75R16 BFG A/Ts on 16x8 M/T Challengers, Warn 4X Boards, Mopar fender flares, front and rear NW Custom stainless steel/rubber mud flaps, Mag-Hytec diff. cover and trans. pan, Edelbrock IAS shocks, Mopar tow hooks, Jordan Research Ultima 2020 trailer brake controller, VDO Vision gauges, PIAA Dual Sport 900 auxiliary lights and Super White bulbs, BD exhaust brake and TorqLoc, Prime-Loc fuel filter relocation kit, "Scotty Air System", Hitco/Geno's exhaust blanket, Femco/Geno's EZ Drain oil pan plug, and Banks Stinger 4" dia. stainless steel exhaust system.

'00 Polaris 6x6

 

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I have used a K&N for 35,000 miles. I run in real dusty conditions at times. I have not taken it out of the box, but I have checked the down wind side. Not a speck of dirt of oil. I am going to switch the the
RE0880 as soon as Scott comes out with his intake protection system.
I would recommend the filter, but not cleaning it. I plan on throwing the old one away. An extra $40 is realy not a big deal for a $30,000 truck. The only problems I have heard of have come from people who clean and re-oil their filters.
Jack

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1997 4x4, 3. 54 rear, 5 spd, red, vinyl floors.
Banks Stinger Plus, BD 4" cat back (minus muffler), K&N (not Scotty YET!), Delvac 1, Lund cold front, Shelf-it overhead storage system, CB mounted overhead like the BIG rigs!
Pull Trailswest 2 horse slant, 1972 8' Bell slide in camper (heavy son of a gun), and one great hunting Black Lab

 

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I have had a K&N in my truck for 40,000 miles now and quite often check for dirt/oil on the turbo. I have never seen any signs of the oily dirt on the turbine blade. Due to a rock damaging my intercooler it was replaced 5,000 miles ago. I cut it open to check it out, no dirt or oil of any kind found. As far as a power increase is concerned I can't say there was any but it sounds faster #ad

 

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Joe,
I respect your viewpoint on the oil wetted K&N air filter and the Amsoil foam filter.

I have used the Amsoil foam filters in every vehicle I have owned since 1983, and have never seen ANY oil go beyond the element itself! However, if the filter is over oiled, it could well do that!

At the present time, I own a 1989 Dodge Shadow/Turbo with over 135,000 miles on it, and it still passes emissions testing every year with no rejections of any kind. I clean and re-oil the filter every 20,000 miles, as well as change the engine oil at this interval.

I also, as you may know, have a 1994 Dodge/Cummins pickup with over 118,000 miles, and it too has had the Amsoil foam filter installed since new. I take oil samples each 10,000 miles, and to this day, there has never been more than 0. 3 percent by volume of solids in the oil samples, and the silicon levels have never been over 19 PPM/ by weight.

There has also never been ANY oil residue get into the airhose leading to the turbo, and there is also NO black oil residue on the turbo blades.

As to the increase of power one might get by installing one of these, I can not say. However, I do know, without exception, it is a much better filter than a plain paper one.

So in my opinion, and we all have them, It is worth the price!


Best regards,

Wayne
amsoilman

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94'SLT 4X4 AT/White in color. Factory Tow Hooks & Running Boards. Amsoil By-Pass filter, Amsoil Air cleaner,and all fluids are Amsoil. Optima "Red Top" batteries.
BD exhaust Brake, BD Torque Lock, BD Torque Converter, Dr. Performance Stage II Injection Pump. Mag-Hytec Diff Cover,Mag-Hytec Transmission Pan, Isspro Pyro, Boost,Oil temp Gauges mounted in 3 Gauge post mount. One gauge monitors Engine Oil, Trans, Diff. Temps.




[This message has been edited by amsoilman (edited 01-26-2000). ]

 

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I ran the K&N on my old truck and it did let oil and dirt into the air box and turbo blades. I did not notice the problem until the engine was enhanced with the TST#11 kit. I now run fleetguard filters.

BTW I have a K&N in great shape for sale, cheap!

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2000 3500QC 4x4, 6-speed, 3. 54, Patriot Blue, SLT+, every option

 

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Moving to Product Forum, last one for tonight! Remember these "locked" posts are still open for replies in their new homes.
Andy

 

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Folks,
Short of sounding like "Mr. Knowitall", I think we all need to take a step back and put our pride and money spend on filters in our back pockets for a moment. Unfortunately, we all have to deal with this thing called "OPPORTUNITY COST". We give something up to gain something else! Any married man will tell you this is true. Anyway, Regarding every air or fluid filtration system available, as filtering ability increases, flowrate decreases. The only way around this is to increase the size of the element to match a required flowrate. Granted, different media and filtering methods will allow this ratio to be altered. BUT they cannot defy the natural laws of physics. I suspect no one would question perrformance & reliability not going hand in hand. They are usually at opposide ends of each other. But its generally possible for each of us to find what we feel is a sweet spot between the two. Just the same as some of us dream of being totally BOMB'd while others dream of that million'th mile without an overhaul. This topic is no different. Is the filtering ability of a K&N sufficient?? Or, will it reduce engine life?? . . I don't really know.
I can say that I've logged well over 300,000 miles on K&N filters without a problem. I can also tell you Consumer Reports rated air filters about 2. . maybe 3 years ago and K&N failed miserably in terms of air filtration, and while only slighter higher in CFM than a clean foam element, the K&N maintained its rating better than any filter tested. Foam elements rated highest in filtration ability, even better than the best paper filter.
But the foam element's CFM rating also dropped sharpest as dirt collection rose. Even quicker than the best paper element. SO... . Now everythings clear as mud... right??
Personally, I like my K&N's for the street but still prefer a foam element in the dirt. Guess everyone's got a preference. .

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98' 24v 2500 Auto/3. 54 4x4 SB QC. Everything but leather. AMSOIL oil filter relocation kit w/secondary by-pass unit,Smittybuilt Stainless Steel Nerfs, Rhino Liner, K&N. Somehow lost my silencer Ring.
Still wishin I could put my M3's mile deep paint job on the truck. Or maybe I should wish to swap its perfectly engineered automatic. Or maybe... . Ah heck, Just wish BMW would start makin a truck using the ISB!

 

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I run K&N Filters on both my diesels and never had a problem,just my . 02 cent's worth #ad