Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Does this look normal?

[Momilesmoproblems]

Sorry to be a big thread maker, but I can see the forum is not too busy.

long story short my driveshaft broke off, Stupid me didn’t know that you need the yoke in to move the vehicle, so
I moved it without and there was popping and it didn’t want to move.

now we have the seal off and the internals are clearly off center in the assembly. Is this normal? Is this a sign that something got damaged? We did jack up the truck and the internals may have moved a little (being that the load is off the axle) but didn’t center themselves. Are they supposed to be centered? Here’s a pic. The wheels seem to turn okay in the air. Thank you!

 

[BigPapa]

Looks to me like you pulled the pinion in so far it’s pulled the bearing back on the pinion. Is there side-to-side play? Will the pinion move in and out? Why haven’t you pulled the diff cover and looked at the gears?

Why two different threads?

 

[petersonj]

If I am understanding correctly, you moved the truck or tried to move the truck without the end yoke installed on the pinion shaft?

If so, there are two tapered roller bearings on the pinion gear shaft. The nut (along with the bearings, shims, and end yoke) sets the preload between the two bearings which in turn places the pinion gear in the correct position to mate with the ring gear and keeps the shaft rigid. If the nut and end yoke are removed, there is nothing to hold the pinion gear in position - it would deflect seriously if the truck was moved. The rear wheels turn okay because they are using the differential gears to accommodate the axle rotation without rotating the pinion shaft.

You may or may not have caused serious damage. If the pinion shaft can easily be pulled forward and it rec-enters itself, then it could be worth the time to reassemble the end yoke, tighten the nut and then rotate the pinion shaft several times BY HAND to see if there is any associated noise or any binding. Even if everything seems okay, there is no guarantee that harm wasn't done.

- John

 

[Momilesmoproblems]

Looks to me like you pulled the pinion in so far it’s pulled the bearing back on the pinion. Is there side-to-side play? Will the pinion move in and out? Why haven’t you pulled the diff cover and looked at the gears?

Why two different threads?

Work stupid hours and it’s getting cold out. Slow response and this is slightly different.

No side to side play.

doesn’t seem to want to move. should it be loose?

what am I wanting to see when I pull the diff cover? Should the pinion be rotating when the wheels are up in the air and we’re turning wheels? Thanks

 

[Momilesmoproblems]

If I am understanding correctly, you moved the truck or tried to move the truck without the end yoke installed on the pinion shaft?

If so, there are two tapered roller bearings on the pinion gear shaft. The nut (along with the bearings, shims, and end yoke) sets the preload between the two bearings which in turn places the pinion gear in the correct position to mate with the ring gear and keeps the shaft rigid. If the nut and end yoke are removed, there is nothing to hold the pinion gear in position - it would deflect seriously if the truck was moved. The rear wheels turn okay because they are using the differential gears to accommodate the axle rotation without rotating the pinion shaft.

You may or may not have caused serious damage. If the pinion shaft can easily be pulled forward and it rec-enters itself, then it could be worth the time to reassemble the end yoke, tighten the nut and then rotate the pinion shaft several times BY HAND to see if there is any associated noise or any binding. Even if everything seems okay, there is no guarantee that harm wasn't done.

- John

Thank you also for the great reply. Should it be loose enough to manipulate the pinion by hand as it stands? Wheels are in the air

 

[SAndreasen]

If it were me I would get the new seal the new pinion yoke and run the nut back on to where it was you Should be able to see where the nut was before then see if it rotates freely

 

[petersonj]

More than likely it is jammed. How seriously jammed - hard to tell. Do not do what is suggested above until you have pulled the pinion shaft forward and the bearing has re-centered.!

Here is what I would try. Start the nut onto a couple of threads to use as a handle. You will need one other person. Have one rear tire off the ground using a jack stand under the axle. Make sure the other tire is resting on the ground. Have other person gently rock the suspended tire back and forth while you are pulling forward on the nut attached to the pinion shaft. The rotating energy will be transferred from the suspended tire to the ring gear. This motion may free up the pinion gear enough to move it forward. No guaranties.

- John

 

[SAndreasen]

More than likely it is jammed. How seriously jammed - hard to tell. Do not do what is suggested above until you have pulled the pinion shaft forward and the bearing has re-centered.!

Here is what I would try. Start the nut onto a couple of threads to use as a handle. You will need one other person. Have one rear tire off the ground using a jack stand under the axle. Make sure the other tire is resting on the ground. Have other person gently rock the suspended tire back and forth while you are pulling forward on the nut attached to the pinion shaft. The rotating energy will be transferred from the suspended tire to the ring gear. This motion may free up the pinion gear enough to move it forward. No guaranties.

- John

Obviously the pinion shaft has to be pulled back out before the Yoke and nut can go back on . Probably need to take the cover off to drive or push the pinon gear and shaft back into position

 

[bcbender]

Personally I would not do another thing w/o pulling the diff cover to understand what is going on. To easy to make things worse and in reality would want to check the pattern and change oil after the service.

 

[Momilesmoproblems]

Thank you all for your help, we’re going to pull the cover tonight and inspect. It will be getting new oil and the cover gasket is already on hand. Any more input would be greatly appreciated since as you can probably tell I’ve never done this before even if I am not at all new to turning my own wrenches

 

[BigPapa]

The nut (along with the bearings, shims, and end yoke) sets the preload between the two bearings which in turn places the pinion gear in the correct position to mate with the ring gear and keeps the shaft rigid.

If it were me I would get the new seal the new pinion yoke and run the nut back on to where it was you Should be able to see where the nut was before then see if it rotates freely

The nut does nothing but hold the yoke on the pinion. It should be torqued to 220-280 ft/lb. Bearing preload is set with the shims. He may be able to pull the bearing back in place by torqueing the pinion nut back down. If it were me, I'd pull the cover and maybe even the carrier to inspect it. If all was well, he should be able to grab the end of the pinion and shake it side-to-side. Since it has no movement, it's bound up.

 

[Momilesmoproblems]

The nut does nothing but hold the yoke on the pinion. It should be torqued to 220-280 ft/lb. Bearing preload is set with the shims. He may be able to pull the bearing back in place by torqueing the pinion nut back down. If it were me, I'd pull the cover and maybe even the carrier to inspect it. If all was well, he should be able to grab the end of the pinion and shake it side-to-side. Since it has no movement, it's bound up.

Thank you. We will pull the cover today. What type of damage, if we find any, would be terminal? Chunks of metal
Missing? Thanks again

 

[petersonj]

The nut does nothing but hold the yoke on the pinion

I don't agree with this. If this was the only job for the nut, then the pinion assembly would not have slid back into the housing when he tried to move the truck.

- John

 

[BigPapa]

I don't agree with this. If this was the only job for the nut, then the pinion assembly would not have slid back into the housing when he tried to move the truck.

Here's your procedure for checking preload on the Dana 70 and 80.

 

[Momilesmoproblems]

Worst case scenario, what am I looking at here? A new ring and pinion? A complete rebuild? seems like rebuilding the diff (bearings, ring, pinion, preload and backlash and runout adjustments, possibly spider gears) would be a big job. Not new to turning my own wrenches but used to fwd setups

 

[BigPapa]

A rebuild is a big job and requires special tools, setup bearings, shims, and super powers to do it right. Setup on the Dana's is an intricate trial and error ordeal that requires great patience.

If you've been blessed, pull the cover, get the pinion loose and back in position, then put the yoke back on. I would NOT attempt to reinstall the yoke until the pinion is free. I'd inspect all the teeth and flush it out good. If all looks good and spins freely by hand, give it a go.

 

[Momilesmoproblems]

A rebuild is a big job and requires special tools, setup bearings, shims, and super powers to do it right. Setup on the Dana's is an intricate trial and error ordeal that requires great patience.

If you've been blessed, pull the cover, get the pinion loose and back in position, then put the yoke back on. I would NOT attempt to reinstall the yoke until the pinion is free. I'd inspect all the teeth and flush it out good. If all looks good and spins freely by hand, give it a go.

Thanks.

Last night we tried to put just the nut on to see if we could spin it and we couldn’t. We tightened it to the point where it got difficult to turn the breaker bar (not really whaling on it just turning it about like you would a ratchet).

We backed the nut back off afterwards. It didn’t seem to move and there was no popping or clunking.

Do you think I made it any worse?

Unfortunately/fortunately I have to wait til the evening to get to the truck otherwise I’d be working on it now
And not asking you 50’questions. Thanks again.

 

[BigPapa]

Do you think I made it any worse?

You won't know what you have until you pull the cover and get the pinion freed up.

You're probably going to need to gently try to turn the carrier while gently tapping the pinion to loosen it up. Tapping the pinion head on the inside, not the threaded end where the yoke is.

 

[Momilesmoproblems]

You won't know what you have until you pull the cover and get the pinion freed up.

You're probably going to need to gently try to turn the carrier while gently tapping the pinion to loosen it up. Tapping the pinion head on the inside, not the threaded end where the yoke is.

Thank you. You all know so much. Will the pinion head be readily visible from inside?

 

[BigPapa]

I've not read what truck you have, year, model, transmission?

You may need to pull the carrier to get to it. Depends if you have an open carrier or not. This was my D70 when we rebuilt it. It had the OE LSD.