Double o-ringing vs Fire ringing?

[TStetson]

I know that fire ringing is the best of the two.

My question is how good is double o-ringing? Is it best to groove both the head and block? What kind of psi will it hold? What is the price difference with out assembly and studs?



Fire ringing. Does it get the head and block grooved? What are the spec's on the Fire ring groove?



Right now I am putting on a hx-35/ht3b twin combo. In future maybe plan to go for bigger set. I am not going to want to do it again. I don't plan on going more than 100 psi. I was thinking of Fire ringing then later when psi gets higher and higher add the studs and such. What is your guy's opinion.



Tony Stetson

 

[Jim Fulmer]

If it were me and I could afford it I would do the fire rings and studs at one time and be done with it.



Jim

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Moving this over to the engine forum so we can pull some better info.

 

[Hohn]

I would do the o-rings. No one seems willing to talk about how the Fire Rings are cracking!!



O-rings should hold 70psi. You need more than that?



Justin

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Justin: Who's cracking fire rings? I'm willing to talk about it.



Matt

 

[TStetson]

I have yet to hear of some one cracking rings but interested in learning.



I am kinda leaning to fire ringing. One time deal.

 

[BPINE]

I know someone that lost a set of C rings.

 

[jrandol]

I am no expert by any means on this but everything I have read in my research for my twins setup says do it right and get the Fire Rings. Seems like a lot of it depends on the size of studs you use to tighten things up too. When you look at it 70 psi is not huge boost when you get somewhat radical.



Hohn, if you have info on Fire Rings cracking on our trucks please share as I am readying myself to drop some dough into a twin setup with Fire Rings.



Jeff

 

[JB @ C and L Machine]

Originally posted by Hohn

I would do the o-rings. No one seems willing to talk about how the Fire Rings are cracking!!



O-rings should hold 70psi. You need more than that?



Justin

Please share... I guess its too late. . am in the middle of the project. . FYI. . Check your head for flatness... I did and mine is about 7-8 thou warped. . Van calls for no more then . 002 I'll post some pics of me milling my head tomorrow... also of me doing the o-ringing of the head and block. JB

 

[Hohn]

Uh-oh!! I opened a can looks like! Sorry fellas!



What I meant to say was: let me know how the Fire Rings hold up when you've piled the miles on after the conversion.



The Cracking Fire Rings is secondhand info. But I want those who know of cracked rings to come forward. I suspect that there are quite a bit more cracked Fire Rings out there.



We often hear of people doing some wonderful new mod, then if something crappy happens afterward, we mysteriously never hear about that. We need ALL the info.



By no means are ALL fire rings cracking, or even a high amount. But any at all is worth discussing, just like if O-rings were weak and breaking.



Maybe they have the FR sorted out now?



When/If I push boost into the danger zone, I will probably go o-ring just because the huge grooves cut for the FR weaken the block or head in a very critical area-- the deck.



It's entirely possible that the FR installs that cracked were not performed properly.



Justin

 

[jrandol]

Originally posted by Hohn

Uh-oh!! I opened a can looks like! Sorry fellas!



What I meant to say was: let me know how the Fire Rings hold up when you've piled the miles on after the conversion.



The Cracking Fire Rings is secondhand info. But I want those who know of cracked rings to come forward. I suspect that there are quite a bit more cracked Fire Rings out there.



We often hear of people doing some wonderful new mod, then if something crappy happens afterward, we mysteriously never hear about that. We need ALL the info.



By no means are ALL fire rings cracking, or even a high amount. But any at all is worth discussing, just like if O-rings were weak and breaking.



Maybe they have the FR sorted out now?







When/If I push boost into the danger zone, I will probably go o-ring just because the huge grooves cut for the FR weaken the block or head in a very critical area-- the deck.



It's entirely possible that the FR installs that cracked were not performed properly.



Justin

Hohn, several of us on this thread alone are about to pull the trigger on a set of twins and involves head suppression to tie things up. Can you provide us with the source of where you got your second hand information about Fire Rings cracking? Any subject matter info you can provide on this forum would be good, especially about your statement of Fire Rings weakening the block or head. Based on the participation of this thread it looks like several of us are ready to plop several thousands dollars on the table for twins and the head suppression needed to control those twins and subjective information would be very helpful.



Thanks!

 

[Snow man]

i think the biggest thing is not only the fire ring/oring but the bigger studds to go with it. Anytime you get much over 70psi no matter what system your using you begin to lift the head on the engine. You need the 14mm studds to keep the head in place,and the gasket intact. I had O rings they lasted 8 months( I did use Nitrous). I am on fire rings now,I blew a gasket withose,but the mistake was mine i overcut 2 cyl by a few thousanths. This is why it failed.

 

[J.R. Adkins]

I have not seen any fire rings fail. I could see the possiblity if the preperation for the install was not exact. I would say if you have ANY concerns or questions call Haisley Machine. We all know how good second hand info is



J. R.

 

[Bandit1]

my truck is getting fire ringed as we speak and i pick it up on sun from ADT. i have researched this and found that people are blowing orings with as little as 50psi so i went with the fire rings, modified tractors pullers have been using it for a while now, my one buddy uses the ht3b as one of his chargers along with fire rings so why wont they work well for us. i to am geting ready to go to twins, just cant decide which set to go with and i will need a set of shower heads to fuel the twin chargers. also i have read that it is important to have an accurate cut for the fire rings, as well as the most even torque and most clamping force you can have on the head which comes from the head studs and even then the 14mm. i chose to jsut go with the 12mm studs for now and the fire rings, head gasket was pretty well gone from what doug at ADT said. he said it was the worst one he had removed, it had acctually started to deteriorate and had a 1" hole where it blew out 3 weeks ago. i will post pics when i get the gasket. hopethis post helps someone.

 

[jrandol]

Originally posted by J. R. Adkins

I have not seen any fire rings fail. I could see the possiblity if the preperation for the install was not exact. I would say if you have ANY concerns or questions call Haisley Machine. We all know how good second hand info is



J. R.

I second that JR!

 

[MCummings]

I've seen fire rings fail.



Was it installation error?



Here's what the truck did... Fire Rings installed,, drove home, no racing,, or "see what she can do" driving,, parked it for a couple weeks,, fire it up, and after it starts to warm up,, puff,, it's blown, shooting water 2' out the radiator when you pull the radiator cap off. No power, etc. etc.



I helped put this truck back together, and worked literally untill the break of dawn to get it running again.



I haven't heard anything bad about the truck since the new Fire Rings were put in. Maybe it was a freak ring? maybe it didn't seat correctly? Who knows. It did break, in two places.



That being said, I have fire rings in mine, and running a recorded 85PSI, it's holding just fine.



Merrick

 

[Floor It]

On head studs,sometimes you dont have to go through the expense of bigger if you go with better material in the same size.



John

 

[nascar mark]

As I see it, it comes down to how much boost do you want to run, what material you use and who does the work. I believe most failures are due to improper O-ringing or Fire ringing.



We have many trucks running 70-80 psi with our O-ring work with no failures that I'm aware of. I'm not saying you should be running 80 psi (Jim!!) with just a O-ringed head and 12mm studs. 12mm head studs at 80 psi or higher is just asking for a failure. With the right wire, correct wire thickness, proper head or block cut, correct wire protrusion and 12mm studs you should be safe to 70 psi. For those wanting to run higher boost than 70 psi, you should at least consider 14mm head studs to hold that head down.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Yep I have to agree with Mark on the boost verses studs and rings, yes I have pushed it and I know it, were talking about short bursts too. Mark guess I need to get you'll to build me a Motor and just be done..... later buddy!



Jim

 

[BillGotthelf]

The instructions for the head studs say for "low boost operation". They say 80lbs or less of boost is low pressure. The heavy duty studs are rated from 80 to 130lbs. I believe the success of the fire rings is in the instal and the retorqueing. I was told to torque head after instal, run motor until engine reaches operating temps (no boost) and retorque. After a week of driving retorque a third time.