Drained & Flushed Cooling System....

[HEMI®Dart]

A member suggested Caterpillar ELC Coolant. It meets the ASTM specs for 1994-2002. It's rated for 621K miles. Silicate free. Kool-Aid RED. Throw me under the bus if you want, but I prefer pre-mix.



About $12 a gallon.

 

[JLandry]

Only a million kilometers? Sheez!

 

[1tuffram]

I'm neding to do a coolant change. Is this stuff better than Fleetguard/ Cummins ES Compleat coolant?

 

[HEMI®Dart]

I'm neding to do a coolant change. Is this stuff better than Fleetguard/ Cummins ES Compleat coolant?

I have always used Fleetguard/Cummins ES Complete.



Is it better? I don't know.

 

[dblake]

I just started this thread about the coolant I recently purchased.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...02/232190-fleetguard-antifreeze-question.html

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Hold the phone....

Caterpillar ELC is Silicate fee.



Now it appears Cummins requires low Silicate.



To: to protect certain gasket materials.



According to the chart below.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...rex-anti-freeze-eg-coolants-north-america.pdf



I asked a co-worker who used to work for HOPENN about the coolant/antifreeze he said "I heard it eats seals".



Now where to find "special silicate additive liquid"

 

[mwilson]

Bill,

Don't use the Cummins column, that would apply to sleeved engines in my opinion. Use the column for Chrysler OEM instead.



Even though the Cat ELC is not listed there it will be fine without any additives, have run it in my 5. 9 trucks for years. Also have used the Rotella ELC with good results.



I have never heard of CAT ELC eating seals, I think what he might be referring to is the old water pump seal issues on 3406 engine where the cooling system had too much silicate in the system due to poor cooling system maintenance and using antifreeze that was not properly mixed. The water pump seal would start puking antifreeze out of the weep hole in the pump.



If there was a problem with it, I would know. Sell a least a pallet a month of the stuff. Customers love it.



As a matter of fact I have several gallons of the Rotella in the shop that will go in my '97 next month when I give it the pre-winter go-over which will include a cooing system and heater core flushing.



Don't forget that with a lot of these new antifreeze types is that a floating ball freeze protection gauge is not correct.

For CAT ELC you have to use a refractometer to check the freeze protection. Your buddy should have one that you can borrow.



What worries me about using the pre-mix is that if you flush the block out with water while flushing the system you may not get all the water out.



When you fill it with the 50/50 the existing water in the system cuts the mixture down as soon as it mixes.



On a 12 gallon system in a large truck I try sell the customer a gallon or two of straight ELC to put in first to go with his purchase of the 50/50. Then your chances of getting a nice mix are a lot better.



I think in a Ram cooling system about a 1/2 gallon of straight along with the 50/50 would put you pretty close.



From then on any top-offs with the 50/50 will keep you right there.



Hope this helps.



Mike.

 

[Mhannink]

mwilson you have a good point. i wanted to comment though for everyones benifit that 50/50 is not actually the ideal mix. cat says 64/36, or something right around it say 63-67/37-33 it has better freeze and i think boil over protection too. its been a while since i looked at the liturature but i know i have it some where. 50/50 is just easy to mix and remember so thats what everyone suggests. also the protection levels are not greatly changed at 50/50. your suggestion for the extra straight coolant is good cause its supposed to be heavy in coolant not water.

i just wanted to throw that out there for everyone. it doesnt hurt to mix a little heavy especially in colder climates.

 

[Mhannink]

here is the link to the lit. i have around here some where http://www.cat.com/cda/files/1386276/7/PEHJ0067-02.pdf



it shows the boiling and freeze points at 50 and 60 percent ratios. if i remeber right 64 was better still but im sure it doesnt matter. your protection level also goes up as there are more additives in it then 50/50

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Thanks guys. I was sweating bullets for a while there.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Thanks Mike

I can pick-up a refractometer for about $39 to-the-door to test the freezing point. I am pretty sure the system was dry after I flushed it. It took exactly 4 gals of Cat ELC pre-mix including filling the overflow bottle to almost full.

 

[AH64ID]

That's great coolant. .

Pre-mix will not work on our trucks because you can't drain the last 2+ gallons. The system holds 6. 1 gallons, so with 4 gallons of premix you have a 33%mix! The minimum required is 44%.

The antifreeze concentration must always be a minimum of 44 percent, year-round in all climates. If percentage
is lower than 44 percent, engine parts may be eroded by cavitation, and cooling system
components may be severely damaged by corrosion.

mwilson you have a good point. i wanted to comment though for everyones benifit that 50/50 is not actually the ideal mix. cat says 64/36, or something right around it say 63-67/37-33 it has better freeze and i think boil over protection too. its been a while since i looked at the liturature but i know i have it some where. 50/50 is just easy to mix and remember so thats what everyone suggests. also the protection levels are not greatly changed at 50/50. your suggestion for the extra straight coolant is good cause its supposed to be heavy in coolant not water.
i just wanted to throw that out there for everyone. it doesnt hurt to mix a little heavy especially in colder climates.

Higher %age of coolant does have a better boiling/freezing rating, however the truck can run hotter as well. Water has a better heat rejection than coolant. The lower water %age you run the less heat you loose on each pass thru the radiator.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Good Call AH64ID,



Service manual says 6 gallons for a '94.



I was using Fleetguard ES Complete. This shouldn't have HOAT in it right?

 

[AH64ID]

Sorry. . brain fart on the year!

No a 94 should be HOAT free, my post has been edited.

Be sure to check the freeze point to verify the coolant %age. 4 of pre-mix into a 6 gal system is still only 33% coolant.

 

[Mhannink]

That's great coolant. .



Pre-mix will not work on our trucks because you can't drain the last 2+ gallons. The system holds 6. 1 gallons, so with 4 gallons of premix you have a 33%mix! The minimum required is 44%.













Higher %age of coolant does have a better boiling/freezing rating, however the truck can run hotter as well. Water has a better heat rejection than coolant. The lower water %age you run the less heat you loose on each pass thru the radiator.

wouldnt a higher percentage be better then? obviously one could go too high but if you keep a little more heat in the engine the fuel will burn better. i do understand this would probably raise egts and the temps on metal parts like the exhaust valves, but if thats all kept in check based on egt's would a little hotter cylinder temp be good?

 

[AH64ID]

In 2010 Dodge put in 200* thermostats, if you want to run hotter for mileage try a hotter thermostat. You want your coolant to keep you as close to your thermostat as possible.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

AH64ID,



Here is the degree symbol if you want to use it: °

 

[mwilson]

AH64ID,



Here is the degree symbol if you want to use it: °

I've been looking for the right combination of keys to do that at LEAST 5 years!!!!!!!!:-laf



What do you push to do that??? Please, please tell me.



Mike.

 

[mwilson]

Bill,



Been meaning to mention if you need some straight CAT ELC to increase your freeze/boil protection the CAT part number for a gallon is 238-8647.



Mike.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

I've been looking for the right combination of keys to do that at LEAST 5 years!!!!!!!!:-laf



What do you push to do that??? Please, please tell me.



Mike.

I always go to the Charactor Map.



See this 10 year old thread for quicker ways:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/other/22061-using-degree-symbol-post.html