2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Driver side mirror problem

[J Shocik]

Greetings, my '97 CTD driver side mirror's swing-lock mechanism doesn't work anymore to the point while driving the mirror almost flips against the window. Is there any repair that can be made short of replacing the whole mirror assembly? My truck has power mirrors if this helps. Thanks, John

 

[Alphacowboy]

I would pick up a set of the 98+ mirrors, you can get a full set for fairly cheep on EBay

 

[Dave M]

Fix for Mirror

I fixed the passenger side mirror on my 97. It was not hard to get the mirror loose from the door and you need to do it to determine what the problem is. There are 2 basic problems I have seen with the mirrors:



1. Loose mirror glass... . so floppy mirror glass.

2. Loose chrome post... so the whole mirror flops around.



If the mirror glass is loose try this fix:



http://gatewaydieselownersassociation.com/default.php? h_display=1&how_to=Lose_Towing_Mirror



Or... the same thread above posted on the TDR site:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72260



I believe you have the loose chrome mounting post from what you are describing.



The chrome shaft on the mirror has a slip joint that allows it to be moved into position by hand pressure. A bracket holds the post to the mirror base. What is happening is there are 4 screws holding the bracket into the cheapy pot metal type base of the mirror assembly. When you get it apart you'll see what I mean. That bracket is what wraps around the chrome post to hold it tight and is held to the mirror base by 4 screws.



Since the screws are threaded into cheap lead type pot metal, the threads loosen up and the mirror's chrome post gets loose. Basically the threads have stripped. The fix is to retap the threads to the next larger size and add new screws.



That's what I did on mine back in October and it still is holding... and I live on a bumpy dirt road. The glass was not loose but it was the chrome post that attaches the mirror into the base mounted on the door. The 4 screws worked loose, so I drilled and tapped 1/4-20. . installed 3/4 inch allen head bolts with blue locktite and it worked... they are tight now.



The thread I used had a drawing of the mirror base. There are 4 torx screws (one in each corner of the base) that are the problem.



Here ya go: http://www.tdr1.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=26200&highlight=mirror+lock



Of course you could upgrade the mirrors but if you want to fix it first it's pretty easy.



Hope that helps.



Dave[/B]

 

[J Shocik]

Hi Dave, Yea, I have the loose chrome mounting post. The mirror VERY easily swings back & forth to the point it's almost useless. I clicked on the last link you suggested, and couldn't believe how crystal clear the solution is described. Thanks a lot for the help, this WILL help tremendously. John.

 

[Dave M]

I clicked on the last link you suggested, and couldn't believe how crystal clear the solution is described.

Yeah, It's not too bad of a job. Glad to help. I searched a long time and keep getting the loose mirror glass fix til it found the post I gave you. It seems more have the loose mirror glass than the loose post.



It's pretty simple job. I did not dismantle the whole door panel, just loosed a few screws and popped a few snap clips at the top of the panel to get access to the mirror. I inserted a small screwdriver between the panel and door to keep it open enough to get at nuts (or was it bolts?) holding the mirror on. Be very carefull not to drop the nuts into the door panel or you'll spend more time digging into the door panel. I used duct tape on the scoket. A magnetic socket would be super. You'll see what I mean when you get in there.



Just get the allen head (allen head really works well cause of the space limitation) bolts, red or blue loctite some lock washers, the drill and tap and go at it. I did mine in the rain in my driveway with an unbrella. Just took the mirror inside and worked on it. You may have to remove the 4 screws and take them to hardware/NAPA so you can get the right size. They can't be too long or the the black plastic cover won't fit over them when it's time to assemble. I got 2 different bolt sizes and used the best one. Mine needed to be a little longer cause I used lock washers. Get the smallest and thinest washers and lock washers you can. Be ready with an assortment.



I think I had to leave out the flat washer and just use lock washers because the black plastic cover would not fit over the bolts with washers etc. . You must test fit the black plastic cover before tightening too much or using the loctite. Once it all fits and the bolts/washers are not too tall to fit with the black plastic cover on, then loctite it and put it together. Tap and drill carefully cause the pot metal is soft and won't hold well... Also don't overtighten the bolts for the same reason. The threads will strip easily.



Good luck. Post your results when done.



Dave



Edit: I checked out my old post and My response above and realize I found the bolt size of 3/4 inch long worked best for me. So you can get the bolts ahead of time thead size 1/4-20 and no need to wait til it's apart.



My old post was mostly about the KDP fix but I mentioned the mirror fix also and noted the bolt size to be 3/4 long:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115252



Dave



Good luck.

 

[J Shocik]

Dave, I REALLY appreciate the effort you put in gathering this information. I'm printing this out so I will have it ready at repair time. I printed out the mirror diagram also. Thanks, John



PS Dave, Have any experience with alternators on your truck??

 

[Dave M]

Glad to help. The guy whose post I showed you did a good job on the writeup and fix. It works well but remember you are taping into cheap pot metal and don't drill too far in. It's been awhile since I did mine but I remembered all the trouble I had getting the right size bolts... too long and the cover won't fit over them.



I messed up by not test fitting the black cover because the space is tight and I had loctite all over everything. Hope to save you the trouble I had. Don't locktite or tighten too much until your sure everything will fit with the cover on. Also be carefull with the mounting nuts, not to drop them in the door. It's not as difficult as it sounds once you get into it. Take your time.



Post when your done and if you can take pics or add detail that will help the next guy.



OH... almost forgot. No. I don't have any experience with the alternator yet. I've had this truck for 2 years (1st diesel) and everything I seem to do is new to me. Noticed a few recent posts on alternators tho. I'm waiting for my new hydroboost unit now. I'm not afraid of electrical stuff tho (B. S. in electronic engineering). But lots of experience on TDR. My alternator is holding up Ok so far.



Sorry for the long post... I tend to be a detail person



Dave

 

[Neibe]

Mine did the same thing I went to the dealer they have a repair kit for it. Whle I was in there I asked how much for the new flip up style they said $250 I said I'll take it. The mirrors are awesome I can leave them fliped down and still the whole side of our fifth wheel flip them up and I can see behind the 32ft fifth wheel.

 

[J Shocik]

Hey Dave, I'm wondering... can the black plastic boot be removed without all the other dissamblely? I'm thinking of fixing it on the truck, if possible. I don't know what holds the plastic boot on. Just wondering... John



Neibe, thanks for the information. No offense, but I'm going to try Dave's method, mostly because it's cheaper. I've sunk enough $$$$ into the truck the last 2 mos. I don't tow anything, but do some snow plowing for some people, and we've had some snow this winter, with more coming Mon. PM

 

[Dave M]

can the black plastic boot be removed without all the other dissamblely

As I remember there are 3 studs ( in a triangle pattern) sticking out of the mirror that mate with 3 holes in the door. Remove the 3 nuts off the studs from inside the door panel to remove the mirror. There is also an electrical plug to disconnect.



I believe the black cover had to be twisted like 360 degrees as you rotate it to slip it up over the chrome post to get it out of the way. I don't think it was actually removed... don't remember for sure. Anyhow to do all that would require getting into the door panel... might as well remove it from door. Easier to drill and tap off the door. It's not difficult to remove. The 3 nuts and electrical connector and its in your lap. It has about 1-2 foot electrical pigtail. I can't see doing it on the door. Don't know til you try but you have to remove the nuts probably to loose things up and I believe if its on the door you won't have room (with the door in the way) to rotate the plastic cover to remove it.



I'd plan on removal from the door as the only option.



Wish I'd taken pics when I did mine to show you why I don't think its worth it. My opinion is don't sweat it and just take it off. A door clip removal tool is helpful. Can't remember how many clips I undid... not more than 1 or 2. I believe I removed the trim next to the window holding the panel on the top edge.



If you can figure a way, with the door open, to wiggle the black cover up over the post (which twists 90 degrees) then you might do it... but be careful of cracking the cover. If the cover cracks then you probably need a new mirror. Everything is on the exterier side of the door panel, so it might be done.



Good luck,



Dave

 

[J Shocik]

Dave, I was hoping for an easy way to fix it. Your method seems pretty easy, even removing the panel. I won't be doing this for a few days, or even a few weeks as I am presently having what appears to be alternator problems. And to make matters worse, here at home we're getting a snow storm tomorrow. This postpones my time frame for the mirror repair to a later date, but I AM going to do it your way. Thanks, John

 

[Dave M]

Sorry bout all the trouble... When it rains it Pours. Probably time to get another alternator. I know what you mean about putting it off. I did to until it was driving me crazy and then I did it in the rain to get it over with. But it can wait til the alternator is fixed. . Thats definately more important.



There is a current post on that that I'm sure you read. Heres the link: http://www.tdr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121828



Another thread on a beefer one:



http://www.tdr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120378



Do a search on "alternator" and search just "Titles" to narrow it down to just thread titles.



Good luck and post when you get into the mirror and let us know how it worked or if you need help.



Dave

 

[J Shocik]

Dave, believe it or not, some how I found those threads and read them. I called around my area ( Central Mass. ) and found Auto Zone to be the best buy for the $$. I thought about rebuilding it, but that ties up the truck for most of the day, and possibly longer, which I cannot afford to do. This will get done the next chance I get. John

 

[Dave M]

Kinda figured you would have found them links. What did you have to pay for your alternator and is it rebuilt? I dislike rebuilt anything but it depends on the price difference. I would not take the time either to rebuild it. Did you have your old one tested or just figure its bad? Can't hurt to get a new one anyhow. I don't have a Autozone close but theres probably one in Fresno (50 miles).



Well good luck with the alternator. Hope that fixes it for ya.



Oh, before I forget, when you get to the mirror be careful with the black cover, but to get it out of the way I remember I had to pull and twist it (because of the sharp 90 degree bend in the post) up over the post and towards the mirror. You'll see what I mean when you do it. I don't remember it being attached to anything but it just fit tight over everything and had to be pried up out of the way. Thought I would break it as many times as I did it but its tough and pliable. I can't remember it being srewed down, but check it over good before you pull on it. Sorry I can't remember more. Just test fit the cover before you put the locktite on and don't tighten the bolts too hard. I tightened one bolt too hard and it started to strip but figured the loctite would help hold it anyway and there are 4 bolts.



Dave

 

[J Shocik]

Dave, Autozone says they have one in stock, $150. 00 W/ a lifetime warranty. The way I figure it, I can buy the alternator, pull the old one taking my time, re-install the new one in a couple of hours. My truck has a snow plow on it and I have to R & R some of the components, as they sit right above the alt. Sending it out for a rebuild, I need a 2nd car, and have to wait who know how long for it to get done, then put it back. I don't have acces to a garage, and it's fairly cold here now (30 deg. ). Autozone method is more $$$, but is a lot quicker, & my time is important to me. I haven't had it checked, but followed some threads from guys with alt. problems like mine and a replacement fixed it.

 

[Dave M]

That sounds like a cheap price for alternator... Go for it. Yeah I have to use my dirt driveway cause my sons 72 Nova has found its home there for 2 years now as he keep working on it as he gets money. But the weather has been in the 60's to 70's and even if it rains its not too cold. I grew up near Pittsburg Pennsylvania and I know how cold it gets... don't envy you. You definatly need some mechanics gloves in that weather.



Good luck with the alternator.



Dave

 

[J Shocik]

Dave, Today I FINALLY got sick and tired of constantly adjusting the loose driver side mirror, took it apart per your instructions, and FIXED IT!!!!! I had a few mini-battles, but won them. Your instructions, diagrams, and replacement parts lists were right on target, taking a lot of the guess-work out of the repair. Believe it or not, the most difficult part was trying to find the special panel removal tool- I had to go to 3 parts stores before finding one. Once again, I thank the TDR members for answering my questions allowing me to fix this problem. Dave, THANKS!!!! John



PS Now on to the alternator...

 

[Dave M]

Quoted by j shocik: Dave, Today I FINALLY got sick and tired of constantly adjusting the loose driver side mirror, took it apart per your instructions, and FIXED IT!!!!! I had a few mini-battles, but won them. Your instructions, diagrams, and replacement parts lists were right on target, taking a lot of the guess-work out of the repair. Believe it or not, the most difficult part was trying to find the special panel removal tool- I had to go to 3 parts stores before finding one. Once again, I thank the TDR members for answering my questions allowing me to fix this problem. Dave, THANKS!!!! John PS Now on to the alternator...

That's great John . I'm glad you didn't have too much trouble with the repair. I was hoping the bolt sizes etc. . that I gave you would work for you too. The original thread I used was very good, but I had to figure out some of the disassembly and stuff that wasn't mentioned in that thread.



Well, while it's fresh in you mind, if you have time, try to post exacty what you did for the next guy who comes along . I told you it wasn't that hard to remove the mirror from the truck... but it was intimidating for me the first time too :-laf .



WAY TO GO JOHN..... Oo. Oo. . WaaaaHooooo!



Let us know how the alternator job goes.



Good Job... . and Good luck on the alternator

 

[J Shocik]

Dave, Once I got the mirror off the truck, I had to remove 3 T20 Torx screws that hold the plastic cover to the base. After struggling top get the cover out of the way, I saw the screws that stripped out. After removing the 4 T27 Torx screws, I followed your instructions about tapping out w/1/4-20 tap. The metal cover that the 4 bolts go through had to have the 4 holes reamed open a little more to acept the larger 1/4-20 allen head bolts, no major problem. A little Locktite blue while re-assembling, and TA-DAA!! Done!! Let's see how long it lasts...



PS The alternator is showing around 12. 9- 13. 5 volts now. I'm going to try to hold off until the weather gets a little warmer.

Dave, once again, thanks for all your help. It saved SOOO much time and trouble. John

 

[Dave M]

Quoted by J shocik: Dave, Once I got the mirror off the truck, I had to remove 3 T20 Torx screws that hold the plastic cover to the base

So, there were screws holding the cover on... I couldn't remember that. That means you never could have taken the mirror apart without first getting into the door panel to get to the back side of the door... Hmmmm... once there, you might as well just take it off the dooor... Right?

Quoted by J shocik: After struggling to get the cover out of the way

That cover was a pain to work out of the way ... . Dodge didn't make repair an easy option... did they?

Quoted by J shocik: The metal cover that the 4 bolts go through had to have the 4 holes reamed open a little more to acept the larger 1/4-20 allen head bolts,

I forget about that too. Good point .

Quoted by J shocik: Let's see how long it lasts...

Yeah... my mirror repair has been holding with no wobble since November. If if fails, I may get new ones from Dodge... like the ones that were mentioned earlier in this thread.

Quoted by J shocik: PS: The alternator is showing around 12. 9- 13. 5 volts now. I'm going to try to hold off until the weather gets a little warmer.

On to the next job... . Good luck. Let us know how that one comes out. Too bad you have the snow plow to remove :{ .



Thanks for adding the other details about the mirror job that I forgot . Makes it easier for the next guy. I'll remeber this thread and add to next comments for the next guy who needs help. If you don't beat me to it. :-laf



Welcome to TDR,



Dave