Driveshaft failure

[Bob4x4]

The 271/273 transfer cases are not known for grenading

A sled puller will destroy everything eventually. The most common transfer case

Damage is running low on oil and is long term damage

 

[jhenderson]

We are obviously talking about a situation with 100 percent traction available. If not; no broken shaft. Hence the need for splitting the available torque between both axles.

 

[AH64ID]

The design splits the torque 50/50.

Now the actual load each axle sees will vary by

Surface friction,weight on axle,and angle of truck

Yeah, which can actually vary the torque from 0-100 based on what you said. Really they split rpms, as it's not a differentiated case, and traction determines the torque split.



More info is needed from the OP.



Duvall (my old stomping grounds) does have some STEEP hills, but everything is always wet or covered in a moss so there is never great traction, or dry pavement

 

[Bob4x4]

Something no one has addressed yet is tire slip then grabbing being very abusive. Most axle shafts are broken in this manner. Since the op has never really given an acurate scenario we cant acurately say what happened. Although it does give us a chance to spread our opinions.

In my younger days I would paint a stripe lengthwise on driveshafts to catch any twisting before the catastrophic failure hit. Loosing a driveshaft at speed is no fun.

 

[Bob4x4]

We are obviously talking about a situation with 100 percent traction available. If not; no broken shaft. Hence the need for splitting the available torque between both axles.

The flip side of that is the front axle shafts are not all that strong,I have seen them stretch the yokes where the u-joint caps fit so badly that they will rock back and forth.



2 low should work fine with careful (non abusive) driving. That being said some people will never understand what is and is not abusive.

 

[mwilson]

That being said some people will never understand what is and is not abusive.

That is the truth. My parts sales for the year are influenced by various customers interpretations of the word "abuse"... . Oo.



I don't have a driveline division but am beginning to consider adding one, looks like easy money in certain cases... .



Mike.

 

[SierraRam]

And before I forget, you will never see a "Freespin" kit in my signature as I prefer 4WD being at my immediate disposal without having to wish that I had locked the hubs in while sinking in a mudhole or sliding sideways up the road approaching a snowbank. I did my time with that style back in the '80s and don't miss it.

Besides when you leave the hubs locked out for long periods of time the knuckle u-joints will seize from lack of excercise and create another issue.



That is my opinion only, I'm sure that it solves problems for those that install it.



Mike.

I think you shouldn't have them either

 

[mwilson]

I think you shouldn't have them either

See, we agree. Oo.


Mike.

 

[NIsaacs]

Humm... this is kinda weird. The OP says in one sentence that he installed his original shaft and in another sentence he installed a brand new original. Maybe the new one was made out of light weight gasser stuff:-laf



We also don't know enough. Is it a standard or auto? SRW or dually? What does the boat weigh? Traction surface/grade. It almost seems like the e-brake was set and forgot.....



Nick

 

[TCDiesel]

2 low should work fine with careful (non abusive) driving. That being said some people will never understand what is and is not abusive.

X25xs I have given up in some cases,People have Bait WEB ... I read on the net that SO & SO does this all the time. Hmmmm well this time its $$$$ bait that.

The free spin IMHO is not the problem,Do bind backing in 2LO unlocked and you can span any shaft or Joint. I am VERY VERY careful Backing My Tri-axles Trailers in 4LO (Yes 3 axle Dump Trailers 20K plus) over curbs and Islands. I try as much as possible to keep the Front wheels ______ straight, I will used 2HI As long as possible until I have to used 4LO when bind Backing.

 

[BK]

Wonder if the OPS is had an axle wrap issue, with the torque and load, that isn't seen under street driving.

Is there any fresh marks / damage on the other end's UJ's , down by the rear end?

for all of this to happen, agreed would have to be lots of available traction if nothing else was wrong.

But binding at the rear uj due to an axle wrap issue, there should be damage down there too, which might be over looked due to the overwhelming sight of the front of the tube being twisted.
Or possible in the pumkin itself.

The drive shaft is designed to be the fuse of the driveline within the OE's design, as designed.

 

[HHhuntitall]

I abuse my trucks way more than most, and I've twisted driveshafts, torn bearing pillars off the crossmembers, twisted axleshafts, smoked clutches, broken trannies... ... I know what NOT to do!! :-laf I've also owned class 8 trucks since I was 18, and it's often said I grew up between two frame rails... . I've broken more than my fair share of driveshafts, and even had some come up and greet me in some cars I've had. For the aluminum shaft to break, I can't say as I'm surprised..... the slightest weakness in wall or weld will give. Now, figure into that, that you're actually pulling on the driveshaft... ... "What?" you ask? Well, he's in reverse, right? Uphill? The slip yokes are binding under pressure and torque, not readily giving or slipping, yet the rear axle is rolling "away" from that yoke from torque yaw/spring wrap, whatever you want to call it, as the truck is pushing it's load uphill, with the axle moving under it. It is literally pulling/pushing the shaft into. As the slip yoke advances, it instantly has to retreat if the axle rolls back to it's assigned position. This stress is causingthe twist at the output shaft. Even the steel shaft is encountering this problem. Now, when you go look at a class 8 truck, you'll notice there is no slip yoke in the back of the transmission. It's built into the driveshaft, and is massive, with yokes directly bolted onto the end of the output and input shafts. Why is that? Hmmm, maybe they know something that light duty manufacturer's don't..... or maybe it costs too much to build something that'll last 800k miles!!!



While I don't think it should twist off, I can see how it would in 4 low, reverse. Locking the hubs would probably aleviate this problem, as it would prevent the axle wrap from being so severe, as well as any torque hammer that may happen from slippage... . It's simply overloaded for it's poor design. Engaging the hubs will distribute torque more evenly, allowing both axles to push the truck, and the load, uphill.



And for what it's worth Mike (not much I'm sure!!!:-laf), I've pulled more-than-I-care-for driveshafts in muddy fields and many barditches, trying to get 100k+ loads of grain out during harvest!#@$%! Nothing like a couple good 1/2" chains and a Versatile tractor..... and laying on your back, with the water rising up your back... . or a plethora of grassburrs to lay on in the sand... ... I still carry a large piece of cardboard under my mattress in the sleeper... . there's also some 1810 R281X Meritor U-joints back there, too.

 

[mwilson]

And for what it's worth Mike (not much I'm sure!!!:-laf), I've pulled more-than-I-care-for driveshafts in muddy fields and many barditches, trying to get 100k+ loads of grain out during harvest!#@$%! Nothing like a couple good 1/2" chains and a Versatile tractor..... and laying on your back, with the water rising up your back... . or a plethora of grassburrs to lay on in the sand... ... I still carry a large piece of cardboard under my mattress in the sleeper... . there's also some 1810 R281X Meritor U-joints back there, too.

Don't forget along with the mud filling your shorts while laying under the truck one of the two following rules will apply... .



1) You had something that you were trying to get home to do like take the wife out to supper or it is one of the kid's birthdays.



2) You blew the driveline on a Friday night on a one truck wide woods road 10 miles away from the pavement with two more loaded trucks and a crane operator in his pick-up behind you that can not get by so you are immediately joined by three more pissy people by default.



You are officially at that point on everyone's ****list... ... ...



Mike.

 

[LBARTLETT]

HHhuntitall, thank you for your explaination, I wanted to say the issue was push versus pull but didn't quite know how to say it as well as you did, the trucks are not built to push as much as they can pull



your point about the slip yoke being in the driveshaft on big trucks says it all, they are designed to back up as much as they can pull



I was going to say my head horse was built to and can pull more forward than he can backward, I just didn't think anyone else would figure out the relationship to a truck

 

[mwilson]

HHhuntitall, thank you for your explaination, I wanted to say the issue was push versus pull but didn't quite know how to say it as well as you did, the trucks are not built to push as much as they can pull



your point about the slip yoke being in the driveshaft on big trucks says it all, they are designed to back up as much as they can pull



I was going to say my head horse was built to and can pull more forward than he can backward, I just didn't think anyone else would figure out the relationship to a truck

X2, you said what we were lacking the words to explain.



Another self trained driveline engineer????



Mike.

 

[NIsaacs]

When you graduate from dump truck school you get the crappiest, most underpowered 18-wheeler that the company owns and haul the same load though the mud and up the hills as the shiny new trucks. You learn right off quick how not to break anything as changing a rear end or driveline in the woods loaded is not a good time.





Yup, 1963 Pete, old retired Associated grocery truck with a 250 Cummins, 4x4 transmission and 444 rears. I spent half the night in the logwoods because the dumbbell loader opperater "owners brother in law" left in front of me and I was the last truck. Wide the heck open, first deep under and could not pull up this one soft hill with a running start. Talk about over geared and under powered:-laf



Nick

 

[HHhuntitall]

Don't forget along with the mud filling your shorts while laying under the truck one of the two following rules will apply... .



1) You had something that you were trying to get home to do like take the wife out to supper or it is one of the kid's birthdays.



2) You blew the driveline on a Friday night on a one truck wide woods road 10 miles away from the pavement with two more loaded trucks and a crane operator in his pick-up behind you that can not get by so you are immediately joined by three more pissy people by default.



You are officially at that point on everyone's ****list... ... ...



Mike.

Don't forget, you also are trying to get 5,000 acres of wheat out of the field, and there's lightning all around you. And you're the highest point in the area. And you've got 45 minutes to get to the elevator to get this load unloaded before they close. And as you climb back under it, after finally finding the right wrench, in the dark, with a dim flashlight about to quit, and hitting your head... ..... that small, hissing air leak you heard a while ago becomes a loud "BOOM" and your front driver airbag explodes under the trailer, covering you in dust, rocks, and an all familiar smell that seems to be coming from your shorts.

your point about the slip yoke being in the driveshaft on big trucks says it all, they are designed to back up as much as they can pull



I was going to say my head horse was built to and can pull more forward than he can backward, I just didn't think anyone else would figure out the relationship to a truck

That all gets back to the point. That horse can pull pretty good in reverse, but his saddle won't let him. It'll twist over or pull the rear cinch up into his gut and make him stop... ... . The power connection ain't right.

Another self trained driveline engineer????



Mike.

Engineer??!?! What did I say to insult you? I've been fixing what college degrees have screwed up all my life... ... :-laf I like to think of my self as a factory repairman. I fix it the way it should have come from the factory!!

 

[HHhuntitall]

Yup, 1963 Pete, old retired Associated grocery truck with a 250 Cummins, 4x4 transmission and 444 rears. I spent half the night in the logwoods because the dumbbell loader opperater "owners brother in law" left in front of me and I was the last truck. Wide the heck open, first deep under and could not pull up this one soft hill with a running start. Talk about over geared and under powered:-laf



Nick

No offense, but I would have thought that would have been a pleasure!! I started in the wheat fields with 60s model V8 gassers!!! OVERLOADED, underpowered, and underbraked!!! Good thing you didn't/couldn't get it going too fast, as it couldn't stop either way!!! :-laf I think the IH had a big I-6, and ran better than the 466 in the one chevy... . Neither one would stop with Hyd brakes!!! Well, without hitting a church or another truck, anyway... ... .



Did you at lease have a sleeper?