Driving in tow/haul and exhaust brake

[Wiredawg]

Friends,
Since I've never driven a Ram truck with the 68RFE, is it fair to say it has different programming and/or different operating characteristics with the EB than the Aisin?

Just trying to understand what's different and what is the same. Just like within the Ram Aisin community, we've figured out Max Tow pkg on the C&C bring special programming, but haven't nailed down the exact differences. Likely a little longer in gear up and down shifting, and maybe a little more aggressive EB (repeating myself?) characteristics.

EDankievitch, be interesting if you test drive an Aisin equipped truck and give us your impressions.

These posts are really interesting. Be nice if a Cummins/Aisin expert could elaborate on these questions.

Cheers,

Ron

 

[SnoKing]

I use normal EB almost all the time. However, when towing and going down a steep, winding grade, I find the Auto EB is more pleasant to use, as it is less aggressive, and less jolting.

At 24,500 combined, full works great. I do not like the speed over run before auto kicks in.

 

[Cummins12V98]

68RFE on my 11 HO DRW was great as far as shifting goes. I "TRAINED" it right from the start.

 

[Cummins12V98]

I use TH and EB all the time along with descending steep grades. I use Cruize Control and select the gear that has my RPM's in the high 2,000's. RARELY touch the brakes even at 35k combined.

 

[mpaulson]

I currently own two 2018 Ram 3500, 4x4, crewcab duallies. One has the Aisin w/4.10’s and the other with the 68rfe w/3.73’s(in photo). I’ve put 8,000km on the aisin and 4,000 on the 68rfe. The Aisin truck’s braking with full brake/tow haul is much more aggressive at slowing you down. With the 68rfe truck I find myself having to use the foot brake much more often to assist in slowing down. Now there is some torque multiplication advantage with the Aisin/4.10 truck that does also help with the braking as well, but the programming with the 68rfe isn’t as aggressive. (I wouldn’t have bought the 68rfe truck but we needed a new welding truck and couldn’t wait to order a 2019 and there were basically no Aisin truck in western Canada that were the right fit) I beleive this is because the Aisin is much stronger and can handle the braking internally much better. At least I won’t have to be the one driving it, one of my employees will be.

 

[kthaxton]

At 24,500 combined, full works great. I do not like the speed over run before auto kicks in.

The heaviest I get is about 21,000. What I find on steep grades with lots of turns is that the trans shifts down and the EB engages almost too aggressively (I probably should say "downshifts too aggressively"). So, when I slow down for a curve, EB kicks in, the trans starts down shifting, now I'm going too slow, then I touch the throttle, EB releases then trans begins to upshift...then the next curve comes and it starts all over again. Each one of those downshifts with EB and the simultaneous EB release and upshift, creates a jolt between truck and trailer.

With Auto EB, it maintains enough EB to maintain the speed I was at when I released the throttle and doesn't seem to downshift as aggressively. Basically, less engage-release, engage-release.

Also, I like the idea that I can use a little bit of the brakes to slow things down instead of only the EB, I guess it gives me a warm fuzzy to know that all axles/tires are contributing to slowing the load instead of only the rear tires/axle and those poor ring and pinion teeth. Think of the TEETH!

The scenario I describe above isn't horrible mind you, I just find the Auto EB is more pleasant for me....and likely the truck/trailer.

 

[Wiredawg]

MPaulson,

Great input... not much better input than from someone who owns two trucks of the same year, same series, and basically same equipment.

Thanks,
Ron

 

[Cummins12V98]

68 is a learning trans. If you don’t run the hell out of it when new it won’t perform to its potential.

His comparison is NOT equal as the 3.73 gears will NOT slow you as well as the 4.10’s.​

 

[mpaulson]

68 is a learning trans. If you don’t run the hell out of it when new it won’t perform to its potential.

His comparison is NOT equal as the 3.73 gears will NOT slow you as well as the 4.10’s.​

I do drive both trucks aggressively and this is my second Aisin and my second 68rfe, and I know that the 68 is an adaptive transmission and drive accordingly.
As well, I DID mention that the 4.10 equipped truck has an advantage.

 

[Wiredawg]

I have FCA documentation I've posted before that the Aisin an adaptive transmission. And there has been discussion on the nuances between "adaptive" and "learning".

So is adaptive more dynamic and immediate to changing conditions and learning more related to opetating at what it's used to?

That's my take on inputs from folks.

Ron

 

[Ozymandias]

They do both, short time and long time adapting.
Short is within an 1 or 2 hours, longtime is over weeks.

 

[Wiredawg]

They do both, short time and long time adapting.
Short is within an 1 or 2 hours, longtime is over weeks.

You know, that really does make sense. I drive mine pretty consistently and conservatively with it weighing 12.2KLbs solo so adapting and learning are easy for the transmission.

* BTW, I just gave myself a gold star for learning right now how to reply with a quote. I must be a slow learning model.

Ron

 

[Cummins12V98]

Not so sure about the AISIN learning or whatever you want to call it. I have had zero issues with the drivability if mine as I ordered the truck and ran the hell out of it right from the start as I did with great drivability on my 68.

 

[Wiredawg]

Just to expand this discussion, the AS69RC in my 2017 Ram 5500 is way better than the AS68RC in my 2009 Ram 4500, in overall performance in normal driving and towing, with EB, and especially with TH and EB. So, some could argue I can't compare them because one has 4.88s and the other has 4.44s, but I from a performance and improvement perspective, I believe I can easily compare them as progression in a product line.

I traded trucks for GCWR issues, but the improvements in going from SLT to Laramie, the increased cooling and better performance of the Cummins (even with DEF), and the AS69RC Max Tow programming, and EB have made up for it in spades.

Cheers, Ron

 

[Wiredawg]

Not so sure about the AISIN learning or whatever you want to call it. I have had zero issues with the drivability if mine as I ordered the truck and ran the hell out of it right from the start as I did with great drivability on my 68.

68 is a learning trans. If you don’t run the hell out of it when new it won’t perform to its potential.

His comparison is NOT equal as the 3.73 gears will NOT slow you as well as the 4.10’s.​

I include that FCA states the Aisin is an adaptive transmission because it is relevant to recognize as you mention the 68RFE is and is relevant to this thread. I believe the fact they are learning or adaptive shows they are complex and perform well in TH and using EB.

Cheers,

Ron

 

[EZeis]

I do notice if you are slowing down faster than the transmission can downshift and lock up, you don't get much exhaust brake time if any at all. Which is to be expected. It takes time to unlock, downshift and relock. So if you're a last second braking type of person, the exhaust brake won't impress you. If you have a normal stop, it will impress. Need to give the system time to work with the transmission downshifts. It's supplemental braking not service braking. 2018 3500 SRW Aisin. Had an 07 manual trans truck with a pacbrake and wasn't sure I'd like the exhaust brake on the 18. Once I got use to how the system operates, it works just as well as my 07. Just can't brake down to idle/0mph like a manual trans.


Earl

 

[TFucili]

Pulling heavy, and last minute stops don't go together very well.

 

[EDankievitch]

I've used the tow haul mode when I do it is the only time that the truck will down shift and keep the engine brake on. And on until almost a full stop. Very aggressive. That said tow/ haul really kills my fuel MPG around town with out a trailer. Can't have everything. I'm sure the larger 34" wheels don't help things. I have had the speed-o- re- calibrated so it reads correctly. That said my truck wants to always be in the highest gear. 30 mph and the engine is turning 1000 rpm. 65 Mph and I'm turning 1200 rpm. The truck's programming is nuts as it will climb a good hill at 30 mph and never down shift the engine does make more than enough torque to do the job.
The "F" SD transmission would down shift once or twice every time I would slow the truck down. Much like our Tow Haul mode only not as aggressive. The feeling was that the engine was always connected and I was always in control of the speed. Many times I was able to regulate the speed and not have to touch the service brake peddle. Much like the manual transmission's I had in the 05 and 12 Ram's I use to own. On my Ram the feeling is the engine is disconnected at least when stopping in normal non tow/ haul mode. Down hill can be fun sometimes when No one else is around...….. Not so much when the Fuz has their radar working.

 

[SnoKing]

Not so sure about the AISIN learning or whatever you want to call it. I have had zero issues with the drivability if mine as I ordered the truck and ran the hell out of it right from the start as I did with great drivability on my 68.

We trained ours right off the lot in Greeley, Co. We took 287(first 95 miles) up to Laramie at the 50-60 MPH speed limits(starting at 12:25 PM), jumped on I-80 and set cruise at 80 MPH to Evanston, Wy 407 miles the first afternoon. The next morning was again 80 MPH in Eastern Utah, and then the slower speed limits(60-75) for 660 miles to Tri-Cities, Wa. On home to La Conner, Wa the third day arriving at 12:25 PM. 1338 miles, 48 hours door to door, and two motel receipts. This Aisin/3:42 truck has always liked to stretch it's legs out on the highway.

You saw the rear diff when we did the first the gear oil change. Clean as a whistle.

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[SnoKing]

Double Post